God bless this widow for standing up to UPS

[pretzel_man]

Im posting nothing but facts that all have websites linked to them. I see now UPS plans on spending a billion dollars this year, but we still have people laid off. This is no time to be spending that money.

This thread has gotten more and more ridiculous. You cannot be serious can you?

UPS invests $1B per year on technology. It does so to remain competitive, provide services, and yes, reduce costs.

The technology budget includes DIAD's, Scanners, Worldship, UPS.Com, PC's, etc. You seriously think the right thing for a business is to not invest in technology for the long term?

Yes, drivers are laid off. Volume is down. Your solution is for UPS to make less profit so that more drivers can be employed....

Would you do this with your own money? Tell me how you are putting your money in businesses that are not trying to increase profit. Is that how you would want your Teamster fund invested?

Its easy to search and find articles, and then find a one sided spin on everything. That behavior is the exact behavior you complain about.

P-Man

 

[705red]

The exchange between Red and Tie is why BC is turning off so many people.
Why don't you both argue via a PM or something?
No offense, but your public banter just feeds into the union/non-union division that exists and is seemingly being notched up on here.
Is there a reason?
Think about the affect on all of us................or don't!

Because I have a right to start a thread of my chosing as long as it UPS related in this forum. When I read this article I wanted to shine some light on it and discuss it. How could anyone ever ask someone not to discuss the death of a loved one. I have a right as a registered member to post facts as I choose and also my opinion on many issues. I have noticed in other threads that you said you are a Vetrean. Thank you for you service and thank you for allowing me this right which you seem to disagree with.

I cannot help it if a discusiion turns management into union hate, but I can assure you that it is not this board that creates this. Peoples feelings boil over from work, and if you think this topic is off base go over to tnet and see some hatred posts.

I want a topic that speaks on all the evils of UPS, the way they mistreat us and others instead of it boiling over in to every thread.

And absolutely I have a beef with this company and will conitnue to post everything that I find. Maybe if they know that we will post it they will stop badgering the spouses of dead UPS employees. Cant gag me, now tie on the other hand, he has several promotions under his belt.

 

[local804]

Its easy to search and find articles, and then find a one sided spin on everything. That behavior is the exact behavior you complain about.

P-Man

Cmon P-man...... There was a death involved here! I hear that place is like gosh darn Manhattan but with 18 wheelers gridlocked around the building. If UPS uses its package mentality in feeder, I can see why it happened!

 

[705red]

Just t o remind everyone here, the original post is about a sup that was killed, not a union hourly employee. I am trying to defend a deceased sups spouse against current management, why? Because someone needs to and its obvious it wont be management, because they seem to have an excuse for everything. I just hope that neither one of these 2 wifes ever have to be dragged through through the mud like this.

But something tells me maybe a certain psoters spuose would take the money and run, assuming he can be as miserable at home as he is here?

 

[pretzel_man]

Cmon P-man...... There was a death involved here! I hear that place is like gosh darn Manhattan but with 18 wheelers gridlocked around the building. If UPS uses its package mentality in feeder, I can see why it happened!

Show me where I have demeaned this death? I take it seriously. It seems other here have used this opportunity to demean UPS. Tell me the facts to change my mind.

Why does UPS want a confidential settlement? Do you think this is unusual? What are the total circumstances around this very horrible situation? What makes UPS the villain here? Why is this not a very unfortunate accident?

From what I have seen, a confidential settlement is VERY common. Do a search. Do you believe that every confidential settlement is due to an evil company?

I have not used this opportunity to push an agenda. Others here have.

P-Man

 

[pretzel_man]

Just t o remind everyone here, the original post is about a sup that was killed, not a union hourly employee. I am trying to defend a deceased sups spouse against current management, why? Because someone needs to and its obvious it wont be management, because they seem to have an excuse for everything. I just hope that neither one of these 2 wifes ever have to be dragged through through the mud like this.

But something tells me maybe a certain psoters spuose would take the money and run, assuming he can be as miserable at home as he is here?

Show me facts where current management is the villain that needs to be battled here. Show me where the widow has been "dragged through the mud".

This is a very unfortunate situation that you are exploiting. You then proclaim that anyone with an opposite opinion of yours is one sided. What a convenient position.

Lets think about this. The victim here was a 17 year feeder supervisor. You have to believe that he knew the rules of the yard? If unsafe activities were going on, you could argue that as a 17 year manager, he accepted them? Why is this not just an unfortunate accident? Show me any facts to show something else....

A confidential settlement is a way for a defendant to settle without admitting guilt. Show me facts to show otherwise in this case.

P-Man

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

hey tiger why don't you and fxdwg get on your knees and worship at the altar of the ups supervisor. neitherone of you offer constructive anything but scarcasm and bullsh t when you don't agree with someone. so in your own words big yawn.[/SIZE]

One of the many areas where you and I differ is that I have the ability to think for myself and do not have Union blinders on. When I was hired by UPS it was not so that I could become a Teamster. It was so that I would have a good job with a solid company that had an above average wage and compensation package.

You are right in that my line of thinking differs from that of most hourly employees. I will not apologize for that. If you want to classify that as ass kissing or whatever go ahead--I couldn't care less. I take pride in what I do and try to give my best effort every day.

Now, back to the thread: I think the widow should cut her losses, accept the financial settlement and agree to the confidentiality statement and try to move on with her life.

In another thread a young inside worker complained that he shouldn't have to learn about yard control procedures because "it didn't affect him". I think this thread tragically illustrates that it could affect anyone of us here.

 

[705red]

Show me facts where current management is the villain that needs to be battled here. Show me where the widow has been "dragged through the mud".

This is a very unfortunate situation that you are exploiting. You then proclaim that anyone with an opposite opinion of yours is one sided. What a convenient position.

Lets think about this. The victim here was a 17 year feeder supervisor. You have to believe that he knew the rules of the yard? If unsafe activities were going on, you could argue that as a 17 year manager, he accepted them? Why is this not just an unfortunate accident? Show me any facts to show something else....

A confidential settlement is a way for a defendant to settle without admitting guilt. Show me facts to show otherwise in this case.

P-Man

Let me ask you if your family would have to live without you if something happened, could they survive the next 6 years in court and without your income? Maybe yours could, but think about alot of full time sups that dont make the money that managers do, could they make it 6 years without his income? Thtas not being dragged through the mud?

Someone died at work on company property and the company is more concerned over a gag order than settling the case. For whatever reason, I feel that this is wrong and the family should not have to go through this. Yet as an employee this is how we see people being treated today by this company.

You dont like me posting about it, get off your ass and change the direction of this company.

 

[705red]

Now, back to the thread: I think the widow should cut her losses, accept the financial settlement and agree to the confidentiality statement and try to move on with her life.

QUOTE]


Why should she move on? Lets just stop for a minute, when we have a bad day or have see something that does not sit well with us, who do we talk to about it? Our spouses, significant others, everyone of us has complained sbout something at one time or another. As a sup I am sure he was alot that did not sit well with him and maybe he addressd it and nothng was ever done to fix it. Maybe she knows more and as his best friend she will not let it go, maybe she feels she owes it to him to tell what she knows. Maybe thats why after 6 years she still wont take the money!

 

[dilligaf]

Fixed, you make a very good point. What began as a civil debate over an unfortunate tragedy has devolved in to a union/mgt argument. I respect both Red and Tie both for their opinions and the experience that they bring to the discussion. It is when this discussion segways to a union/mgt argument that I, and many others, tend to lose interest.



What the hell difference does that make? Fixed was making an observation, which I find to be a valid one, and politely suggesting that they have this discussion privately and that this may be one of the reasons participation here has gone down in recent weeks. (I think the primary reason may be the site changes)



Fixed, it doesn't matter whether this is your first post or if you are nearing 8,000--every member is encouraged to offer constructive criticism which can only serve to make BC even better.



As can you and me and anyone else on here. No member is greater than another and each brings his/her unique perspective and set of experiences to the table.

Maybe he does have a point. We all know that there is and always has been issues between mgt and hourlie. That will never go away. The only reason it is prevalent here is because this is a public forum open to ANY UPS employee. As it should be. And as a member of BC I, like you, have the right to speak my opinion. You know this. The next time you start berating me or any other member of this forum because they don't agree with you, I will not so kindly, remind you: No member is greater than another and each brings his/her unique perspective and set of experiences to the table. There is no reason why this can't be discussed in public. If you lose interest in it then by all means, DON'T READ IT.


What P-man is saying is the truth. Like it or not UPS has a right to protect themselves. I don't necessarily agree with it but I do understand it. I had to sign a non-disclosure for my settlement. And in this case, I happen to think that P-man is right. The law will side with UPS and the non-disclosure will be signed.

Red, as a member of this community has the right to start any thread he sees fit within the parameters of TOS. You don't seem to be berating P-man for for his opinion but you always seem to have something negative to say about the union and some of it's members.


And you my fine furry striped friend, Jimstud is right, everytime someone doesn't agree with you all you can do is yawn. Instead of yawning why not come up with something that is actually valid. Like you said, No member is greater than another and each brings his/her unique perspective and set of experiences to the table.

 

[dilligaf]

One of the many areas where you and I differ is that I have the ability to think for myself and do not have Union blinders on. When I was hired by UPS it was not so that I could become a Teamster. It was so that I would have a good job with a solid company that had an above average wage and compensation package.

You are right in that my line of thinking differs from that of most hourly employees. I will not apologize for that. If you want to classify that as ass kissing or whatever go ahead--I couldn't care less. I take pride in what I do and try to give my best effort every day.

Now, back to the thread: I think the widow should cut her losses, accept the financial settlement and agree to the confidentiality statement and try to move on with her life.

In another thread a young inside worker complained that he shouldn't have to learn about yard control procedures because "it didn't affect him". I think this thread tragically illustrates that it could affect anyone of us here.

This is exactly what I had in mind when I said come up with something better than a yawn.

 

[dilligaf]

Let me ask you if your family would have to live without you if something happened, could they survive the next 6 years in court and without your income? Maybe yours could, but think about alot of full time sups that dont make the money that managers do, could they make it 6 years without his income? Thtas not being dragged through the mud?

Someone died at work on company property and the company is more concerned over a gag order than settling the case. For whatever reason, I feel that this is wrong and the family should not have to go through this. Yet as an employee this is how we see people being treated today by this company.

You dont like me posting about it, get off your ass and change the direction of this company.

Red, I don't believe this is a valid argument. The company did not make the choice to fight the non-disclosure. That is solely on the widow and or her lawyers.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I use "yawn" and "whatever" when I have exhausted trying to reason with whomever I am speaking to at the time. I also use it when I simply don't want to deal with that person at that moment. Immature? Yeah but a lot less time consuming than trying to reason with someone who simply will not listen to reason.

There are members here who I respect and others who I don't. I am sure that there are members who have little to no respect for me, which is fine.

I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. In the thread about green checks I gave advice that turned out to be 100% wrong. Our friendly grocer took me to task for that, he was right, I apologized to the OP for giving bad advice and gave grocer pos rep for taking me to task.

I would like to think that I have something to offer here which is why I enjoy coming here. I would also like to think that even at my advanced age I can still learn a thing or two. What I will not do is change who I am for anybody.

Enjoy the cruise.

 

[dilligaf]

Now, back to the thread: I think the widow should cut her losses, accept the financial settlement and agree to the confidentiality statement and try to move on with her life.

Why should she move on? Lets just stop for a minute, when we have a bad day or have see something that does not sit well with us, who do we talk to about it? Our spouses, significant others, everyone of us has complained sbout something at one time or another. As a sup I am sure he was alot that did not sit well with him and maybe he addressd it and nothng was ever done to fix it. Maybe she knows more and as his best friend she will not let it go, maybe she feels she owes it to him to tell what she knows. Maybe thats why after 6 years she still wont take the money!

Maybe you are right, Red. If this is the case then she should be applauded for her attempts to correct a serious issue. But that does not mean that the company is dragging her through the mud. And it doesn't make the company wrong for wanting to protect themselves. We could maybe this to death. The truth is, the accident was a trajedy.

 

[dilligaf]

I use "yawn" and "whatever" when I have exhausted trying to reason with whomever I am speaking to at the time. I also use it when I simply don't want to deal with that person at that moment. Immature? Yeah but a lot less time consuming than trying to reason with someone who simply will not listen to reason.

There are members here who I respect and others who I don't. I am sure that there are members who have little to no respect for me, which is fine.

I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. In the thread about green checks I gave advice that turned out to be 100% wrong. Our friendly grocer took me to task for that, he was right, I apologized to the OP for giving bad advice and gave grocer pos rep for taking me to task.

I would like to think that I have something to offer here which is why I enjoy coming here. I would also like to think that even at my advanced age I can still learn a thing or two. What I will not do is change who I am for anybody.

Enjoy the cruise.

That I can understand. I think it would be far less time consuming to just not respond at all to those who will not listen to reason.

You do have something to add to this forum and I have always enjoyed your wit and cynicism. I personally think you are funny as hell and have told you such numerous times. We can all learn a thing or two at any age (even in my advanced age LOL) as long as we don't close our minds to it. Ghandi said, "Live as if you were to die tomorrow, Learn as if you were to live forever." I like to think that I try to do this everyday. I'm not always successful but I try. I would never ask you or expect you to change who you are. At least I don't think I have. I'm sure you will let me know if I am wrong. I do think that you put up a wall, just my humble opinion.

Thank you, I will enjoy the cruise. I need the time to regroup.

 

[pretzel_man]

Let me ask you if your family would have to live without you if something happened, could they survive the next 6 years in court and without your income? Maybe yours could, but think about alot of full time sups that dont make the money that managers do, could they make it 6 years without his income? Thtas not being dragged through the mud?

Someone died at work on company property and the company is more concerned over a gag order than settling the case. For whatever reason, I feel that this is wrong and the family should not have to go through this. Yet as an employee this is how we see people being treated today by this company.

You dont like me posting about it, get off your ass and change the direction of this company.

What I don't like about what you are doing is presenting opinion as if it were fact...

What facts exist to show UPS was at fault here?

I hope nobody has to go through the pain this widow did. However, I have not yet seen any facts that show the company was at fault here. This is now the third time I've asked about that. Your answer is that an employee died on company property? That's a fact, but how does that translate to the company being at fault?

If you hired someone to work at your house, and they got hurt does that make the issue your fault? What if you are more well off than them. Does that change anything? What if they sued you. What would you do?

Its not unusual for someone to settle a case just because its easier and cheaper than fighting it.

Many people in the world die of tragic accidents. If one party were negligent, yes I believe in suing. If it were a true accident, no I don't. I have life insurance to protect my family.

The stance of so many here is very interesting... When the company wants to hold YOU accountable, the argument is that employees are professionals and know how to do the job. When something goes wrong however, you say the company is negligent.

Seems like arguing both sides simultaneously.

I don't know all the facts in this case. Since you have not presented anything more than a link, I assume you don't either.

I choose to let presented facts drive my opinion. It seems to me that you do the opposite.

P-Man

 

[jimstud]

One of the many areas where you and I differ is that I have the ability to think for myself and do not have Union blinders on. When I was hired by UPS it was not so that I could become a Teamster. It was so that I would have a good job with a solid company that had an above average wage and compensation package.

You are right in that my line of thinking differs from that of most hourly employees. I will not apologize for that. If you want to classify that as ass kissing or whatever go ahead--I couldn't care less. I take pride in what I do and try to give my best effort every day.

Now, back to the thread: I think the widow should cut her losses, accept the financial settlement and agree to the confidentiality statement and try to move on with her life.

In another thread a young inside worker complained that he shouldn't have to learn about yard control procedures because "it didn't affect him". I think this thread tragically illustrates that it could affect anyone of us here.

i also took the job to work for a company that pays a good wage and has good benefits. where you and i differ is i don't swallow the brown kool aid blindly . i understand i have the good pay and the blue cross blue shield because of the union. also i don't care if you disaprove of what i say but don't type comments that i am a maroon because i know you wouldn't have the stones to do it to my face.

 

[Red Rose Tea]

I use "yawn" and "whatever" when I have exhausted trying to reason with whomever I am speaking to at the time. I also use it when I simply don't want to deal with that person at that moment. Immature? Yeah but a lot less time consuming than trying to reason with someone who simply will not listen to reason.

There are members here who I respect and others who I don't. I am sure that there are members who have little to no respect for me, which is fine.

I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. In the thread about green checks I gave advice that turned out to be 100% wrong. Our friendly grocer took me to task for that, he was right, I apologized to the OP for giving bad advice and gave grocer pos rep for taking me to task.

I would like to think that I have something to offer here which is why I enjoy coming here. I would also like to think that even at my advanced age I can still learn a thing or two. What I will not do is change who I am for anybody.

Enjoy the cruise.

I'm new here - but in this short time - I want to thank you for your unbiased posts.

 

[tieguy]

Now, back to the thread: I think the widow should cut her losses, accept the financial settlement and agree to the confidentiality statement and try to move on with her life.

QUOTE]


Why should she move on? Lets just stop for a minute, when we have a bad day or have see something that does not sit well with us, who do we talk to about it? Our spouses, significant others, everyone of us has complained sbout something at one time or another. As a sup I am sure he was alot that did not sit well with him and maybe he addressd it and nothng was ever done to fix it. Maybe she knows more and as his best friend she will not let it go, maybe she feels she owes it to him to tell what she knows. Maybe thats why after 6 yet.ars she still wont take the money!

there is a chance that she could take this to court and lose. The fact her lawyer did not take it to court tells you something about this case
She has a settlement on the table she should take it. If she wanted to speak out against the company then she had six years to do it.
Posting something like this when you know the company will not post a rebuttal here is a cheap shot.
you're taking a swing at someone you know won't swing back.

 

[Red Rose Tea]

At the end of the day, someone lost their life on UPS property. A wife has lost her husband, and if there are children - a father is gone. Does fault really matter?
UPS did the right thing - offered a settlement. If the widow DOES have information which potentially could prevent such an accident from occurring again, then it SHOULD be made public.