Goodbye Feeders

[feederdryver]

For all UPS Union members...

I believe this is the beginning of the end of the Feeder Dept..and Hoffa doesn't give a damn or he just doesn't realize what he did by allowing hall to put that stinkin Memorandum of Understanding in the back of the new contract, that allows UPS to use independent tractor trailer drivers to move volume. And Article 1 cannot protect us since they will be using THEIR OWN equipment. What a great way for UPS to compete with FedEx Ground right??? !! Didn't you also notice that the the language allowing Feeder drivers to bump into packages during layoffs has been eliminated? At least in the Central Region it has ! Now you have to have been qualified in Packages (or any other full time job) and doing that work for the past 18 months in order to bump into that particular Dept.. or you can go to another Hub or Center within your Local and bump the junior guy there..and if "YOU" are the junior guy in Feeders/TDP of your Local..then you have to go to the HUB or Center and displace 2 part timers. AND..you have to do their work for 30 days in a 90 day period in order to "finally" bump into any other full time position such as Packages or whatever... But the company will not let that happen..Why? Because this is why...The company can recall you at "ANY" time to come back into Feeders/TDP for a day or two, unlike the way it used to be, when it was on a "week to week" basis. So in other words, they can recall you on your 29th day and your basically screwed.. cuz when they lay you back off the following Monday, you have to start your 30 in a 90 all over again !! And they will do this every single time.. So forget seniority ..it don't mean jack for Feeder/'TDP drivers this time around!!! Basically, UPS wants to elimate the whole Feeder Dept (TDP will still keep the top seniority drivers from Feeders) and not upset their customers with all the "new" package car drivers that would come from Feeders. (Lots of new paerwork for management here folks!) It's a "divide and conquer technique" and we are falling for it !! Look at how much volume they have put on the rail already? Everyday I can count hundreds of UPS trailers going by on the railroad that is right behind my house (yes they are loads, not emptys)..it makes me sick. Wait until UPS Logistics starts hiring those independent contractors to haul our volume in their trailers !! What good is the wage increase when we (Feeder drivers) won't even have jobs in the next 6 years. I wouldn't even want the damn raise if we can just get them to take out that new Memorandum of Understanding..How could Hoffa and Hall screw us like this?? Now I know the real reason why Lichtenwald was taken off the negotiating committee.. he was actually trying to get loads off the rail and that interferred with Hoffa and the companys secret agreement. Please Vote NO..or say goodbye to the Feeder Dept. in the near future... This isn't just my personal opinion but also everyone's that I have talked to in North Ohio's Hubs and Centers.. Oh, and when people say "well the contract says we can organize UPS Logistics" you tell them right away.."yeah anybody can organize a bunch of clerks on the phones and at their computers all day", but the brokers they hire will NOT be UPS Logistics. Have I expressed this point enough?? I don't think so. 15 years at UPS working from part-time on up..what a waste. "Then leave !!" some of you will say?..heh..maybe I will.. Guess I should of became a package car driver when I had the chance..huh? LET'S ALL BE A TEAM..PLEASE VOTE NO..THE COMPANY WILL ALLOW THE CHANGES TO PROTECT THE FEEDER JOBS RATHER THAN US STRIKING THEM..WE JUST NEED TO "BAND TOGETHER AND STAND TOGETHER" ON THIS. Think about it..think about how much sense it makes of what I said...

 

[tieguy]

absolutely rediculous to think you could eliminate feeders.

 

[upsfeedersdsm]

no not really but 40 or 50 % of feeder could go feederdryver is right on

 

[feedrman73]

You guys are right on. At least 70% of the runs in my area are bypass. Out of 265 feeder drivers on the list that is 185 jobs that could be eliminated. They could never eliminate some pickup runs and some hot center to center loads. But bypass will be history.

 

[upsdog]

With the way the Company treated us after the last contract, can you amagine 6 year of freedom with no worries of repercussions? Can Hoffa justify this? Can the average UPSer back take this for 6 more years? thats 72 months folks. Can our familys just set by and see us once in awhile? And last but not least I ask you why wasn't 80% of the things the members wanted addressed? How about that war chest?????

 

[wkmac]

OK, first off I don't have much sympathy here because back in the early 80's when the company started using subcontractors in PE work the feeder drivers just laughed at us when we raised this issue and we stated this was just the company getting their foot in the door. The Feeder Drivers and the Union just laughed at us and said you guys are so few and they will never touch us so who cares about you. Well now I see the chickens have come home to roost. Sorry boys but I gotta do this.

Damn that felt good!!!!!! Yeah I'm an a..hole and I admit it!!!!!! LOL!

OK, now that I have the "I told you so" out of the way help me out here with your understanding. I'm assuming that what this all pertains to is the Memorandum of Understanding on page #73. This memorandum references Article 1 Section 4 and the way I read it this means UPS through any other entity can not duplicate UPS' common carrier business (I read Logistics here). I can see where this section prohibits UPS from contracting with Joe's Widgit Company for example to transport via another entity other than a UPS feeder to transport Joe's product for distribution through the UPS common carrier network. What am I missing here guys? From your reactions I'm missing something so if you could explain it I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

mac

I still think the rail is more a threat than a privateer because of price. JMO

 

[stomlinson]

Interesting points made here.

I don't agree that Feeder is on the way out. In South Cal, we are seeking approval to expand Feeder. That's not to say that your region isn't the guinea pig for something, but I'd be very surprised that something like that would fly unless the locals are incredibly weak.

As for unionizing the clerks, I don't see why anyone would complain about or condemn that effort. Most of the very senior part-time employees I know that are on the list for combo jobs are waiting for clerk positions. These spots will allow them to work full-time at the pay rate they are presently at. Absent those new clerk positions, the only real shot at a combo job most of these guys will see is some sort of cover driver position, often at half of their existing pay rate.

In addition, I don't think the Teamsters would complain about adding an new collection of dues paying, retirement fund contributing members to its ranks. Teamsters should jump at every opportunity to add members to the union ranks.

 

[upsdog]

With the way the Company treated us after the last contract, can you amagine 6 year of freedom with no worries of repercussions? Can Hoffa justify this? Can the average UPSer back take this for 6 more years? thats 72 months folks. Can our familys just set by and see us once in awhile? And last but not least I ask you why wasn't 80% of the things the members wanted addressed? How about that war chest?????

 

[tieguy]

"You guys are right on. At least 70% of the runs in my area are bypass. Out of 265 feeder drivers on the list that is 185 jobs that could be eliminated. They could never eliminate some pickup runs and some hot center to center loads. But bypass will be history"

Okie Dokie and where will the bypass go? How will a contractor pull the load from the origin or take it into the destination without your brothers grieving the piss out of it.

 

[feedrman73]

The contract forbids UPS from setting up a new company or using an existing company (UPS logistics) from using its own equipment or hiring someone to drive their equipment to move UPS freight or to compete directy against itself much like Conway did to Consolidated. However, and this is a big HOWEVER, the memorandum of understanding exempts the use of a subcontractor that has his or her own equipment to move the freight. As long as the driver is not an employee of UPS and is not driving a UPS tractor our Union brothers can not grieve it. You can not grieve something if the contract says its "Okie Dokie".

 

[tieguy]

Actually the new language specifically forbids any such action. Read the language instead of making up.

 

[feedrman73]

Wow such aggression tieguy, I know it is frustrating working as a part time sup watching the full-time union guys make more than you ever will unless you to go to full-time driving. Just remember it is the full-time union and part-time union people who actually do the work that provides you with a paycheck. In my 29 years of service at UPS it is my obsevation that the vast majority of management is made up of the drivers who could not handle the work load. I have seen exceptional people in management also, but I assure you not one would have ever displayed the disdain you have for the union brothers and sisters that are the backbone of UPS. AS for the last post where you said don't make things up, I thought I would simply show you the Memorandum of Understanding which in effect allows the company to bypass Article 1. The following is an exact reprint of the letter: Teamsters United Parcel Service National Negotiating Committee and United Parcel Service, Inc. (oh and NY) (ups) agree that it is their intention that Article 1 section 4 of the parties Agreement is ONLY INTENDED TO PROHIBIT ANY AFFILIATE OR ENTITY FROM USING ITS OWN EQUIPMENT (either directly or through an employee leasing company) to perform common carrier operations as described in Article 1, section 4. the letter is signed by hall and James Maloney. Because Article 1 is very clear and would have prohibited UPS from moving any thing under the banner of world wide logistics this letter was added. According to an Attorney at the local it is what is called an exclusionary provision. It allows for UPS logistics to continue operations and as long as they continue to use subcontractors and do not use UPS equipment in the operations then it will be allowed and could be expanded under those conditions. These are the cold hard facts as I understand them. Since you will no doubt have a great retort like "why dont you just quit," I would like you to answer this question. If Article 1 prohibits subcontacting, what is the purpose of a separate letter?

 

[deliver_man]

I, myself, was particualrly impressed with the way that tieguy was able to "outsmart the filter" and sneak a bad word into his post by adding an extra vowel! It's great to know that we have such a go-getter on the management team that will lead us into the future! Bravo!

(Message edited by deliver_man on August 12, 2002)

 

[eddalton]

At least for the southern region Supplement they send for us to vote on - Article 69 - Pension has blanks in it. How can you vote on a contract that has blanks?

In investigating this, I checked the TDU.org site and that version has a note to refer to the National Master Agreement.

Did they send us the wrong version of the Supplement to vote on? Does anybody know what's going on here?

 

[lr1937]

Wow such aggression tieguy, I know it is frustrating working as a part time sup watching the full-time union guys make more than you ever will unless you to go to full-time driving.>>>>

Just about as frustrating as a feederman watching a full time manager make more than a feeder driver ever will until they go into management.
Hang in there tieguy, at least you had the courage to take on supervision. The money will come unless you go into a dead end union guy kind of job.
And by the way, your contribution to providing your paycheck is just as great if not greater than all of those full and part time union employees. There would be no company if no one stepped forward to take on leadership jobs. No one group of people are responsible for your paycheck. It is a combination of management and hourly people that make it possible.

In my 29 years of service at UPS it is my obsevation that the vast majority of management is made up of the drivers who could not handle the work load))))
You are entirely right, it is your observation and you know what observations are like and everyone has one. I totally disagree with your observations and will make one of my own. I knew many excellent feeder drivers, but I also knew some who had so much time on their hands that all they ever did is come up with unsubstantiated garbage like the above. I respect your right to observe but take exception with this biased, uninformed, piece of observation that you have presented. Why not present some facts to substantiate your keen observation. Your generalized observation sucks in my humble opinion, however I do respect you right to generalize but would like to make sure tieguy is not bambozzled by your uninformed 29 year unable to cut it crap. What a waste of 29 years if this is the kind of observations you have learned to make.
Tieguy, this is an FOS alert!!!!

 

[feederdryver]

Deliver_Man.. LOL

too funny..too funny my friend.

Tieguy...making shoIt up, (how's my filter-bypass DeliverMan?) is not part of the equation. reading the entire contract is...
..try it sometime ya people..

 

[feederdryver]

Ir1937...

90 % of the full time supes I know regret having gone into management. "It's not worth it" they say. And I'm not making this up, that's how they feel ..I dunno what else to say...
I used to believe that somewhere and sometime the Union employees and Management could find a common ground.. I really beleived that. I bled brown for a long time, but I never turned my back on management, cuz I know full well what they are capable of doing. Matter of fact though, I like most of my management team, because they are about as much in the dark as I am about what's going on between the International and Corporate. Ya know, I really wish Jim Casey was alive today..because he would kick both Hoffa's and Eskew's ass over the state we are all in with this company. It's funny I never look at Casey as the management type, but as a true honest to goodness leader and father of the company I am proud (or should be proud) to work for. Let's face it..UPS just got too big and here we are now..fighting, suffering , worrying, and always looking over our shoulders..all because of greed. I still believe this contract will kill the Feeder Dept and cost the jobs of many..but I'll be damned if I'm going back to work in the hub if I'm laid off.... I did my time there already..I deserve the job I have and no friggun UPS Logistics is gonna deny me that !!! So if Hoffa and Eskew wanna take that away from me... then all I have to say is "Shame on you...God knowing..SHAME ON YOU !!!!!"

 

[tieguy]

"Wow such aggression tieguy, I know it is frustrating working as a part time sup watching the full-time union guys make more than you ever will unless you to go to full-time driving."

Wow such a bad case of lookdownthenoseitis . Actually I'm a manager making more than you can ever dream of and I know your absolutely positively full of it. In fact your probably a TDU plant here to create devisivness amongst the ranks. Its funny how TDU has managed to run such an organized campaign of misinformation and yet has the gall to speak of soladarity.

 

[feederdryver]

ATTENTION !!!! ATTENTION !!!!! ATTENTION !!!


Well I just got my ballot today..and GUESS WHAT???!!! The International FAILED to provide the MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING regarding Article 1. for us to read. Gee, what a ing coincidence!!! They obviously don't want the majority of voters to see that. This just makes me sick.. Like I said before.. SAY GOODBYE TO FEEDERS !!! and HELLO to UPS LOGISTICS !!!

Now what do you have to say Tieguy ???

 

[feedrman73]

tieguy and lr1937 I am thrilled that I was able to get your attention with my last post. However if you are a manager I doubt you make as much as I do when you calculate the hours worked. I made $81,000 last year. I ran a 540 mile milage run. My wife made $58,000 driving in Package. I averaged 50 hours a week and with my option week had 7 weeks vacation. I assure you I never thought one minute about UPS once I left the yard. I would not change places with you for twice the salary. The only place my financial dealings took a blow was in the market where I had most of my 401k. Due to Corporate management types greed and mismanagement I took a pretty good beating. You did however miss the part of my post in which I said I had dealt with very good management people to go along with those who basically took the management job because they could not hack the hourly one. As for my comments about the contract I simply read it with an open mind. Much of the problems I suffer from are regional. The southern supplement is by far the most substandard. However the two memorandums that allow the company to continue with UPS logistics unchecked, and the one giving them an out on the jobs if there is a 2% drop in volume were two much for me to vote yes on the contract. YOu did not give me an answer obout the last post. Would you please explain to me and everyone else what purpose the letter has and why was it not included with the vote?