Grievance “witness” question

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by blakerben, May 23, 2019.

  1. blakerben

    blakerben Member

    if i file a grievance on two supervisors working at the same time, such as a supervisor unloading to another supervisor sorting, can I list the total hours worked by the two supervisors on my grievance or can I only get paid for one of them. Say they worked together at the same time for an hour. Can I combine their hours to list two hours on my grievance? If not, does having a witness on my grievance then give me the ability to list two hours since there are now two hourlies included in the grievance?
     
  2. lolbr

    lolbr Active Member

    You can put the date and time of each supervisor working. So, if they both were working from 3am-4am, you would put:
    Supervisor A working unloading a trailer (in area they were at) from 3am to 4am on 05-23-2019
    Supervisor B working sorting (in area they were at) from 3am to 4am on 05-23-2019

    It's one hour each, for a total of two hours of supervisors working. Witnesses do not change that. Witnesses are to back you up so it's not just your word vs. the supervisor's word.
     
  3. ClayTheSteward

    ClayTheSteward New Member

    I literally have filed like 15 in the past two weeks for more than 3 supervisors working in a single day. pissed off the district manager, * and got the center manager in a heap of :censored2:. Use this format to file accordingly.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2019
  4. Gman33909

    Gman33909 Member

    Nice, but try not to use actually names
     
  5. SameRightsForAll

    SameRightsForAll Active Member

    Nowhere does it require you to have a witness to back you up. Not having a witness would almost guarantee you won't win the grievance since nobody in their right mind is going to be making the same exact observations as you when everybody is supposed to be very busy working. Also, it's important for you to document more than just the time you saw them working. Jot down details that prove you pay attention to things and have a vivid memory, and keep a log of everything. If you find yourself in a situation where a steward lost your grievance form and you're asked to do another one, somebody can and will compare the two if they find the original. In any situation, never give two statements or forms. Give one statement, never give the original copy to anybody, and stick to your honest complaint.
     
  6. RolloTony Brown Town

    RolloTony Brown Town Active Member

    Listing a witness just builds your case. You should also take notes.

    Take note of exact time supervisors were working, where they were working, what you witnessed them doing. I saw joe shmo unloading from 2-2:30 in 18 door then from 3:10-3:50 in 16 door. I witnessed jack wagon sorting packages from 5-5:35.

    The better the details the more likely you’ll win. It’s difficult to argue a grievance that has specifics instead of generalities.
     
  7. lolbr

    lolbr Active Member

    I never stated a witness was "required". It's just makes it harder for supervisors to deny that they were working.

    You should get a copy of the grievance form for yourself. If you have to redo it, copy word for word from the previous form you filled out. Or at least take a photo with your phone of filled out grievances before letting the steward take them.
     
  8. BigJamesBrown

    BigJamesBrown Member

    Is videotaping a supervisor working an option?
     
  9. RolloTony Brown Town

    RolloTony Brown Town Active Member

    No
     
  10. BrownMonk

    BrownMonk Old fart Package Car Driver


    Actually, you should list the names because the new language in article 3 with catching repeat offenders.
     
  11. BrownMonk

    BrownMonk Old fart Package Car Driver


    You take a chance on the company asking how you were able to videotape when you are supposed to be working as well as violating some states laws. Some states have a requirement that both parties know that they are being recorded( person recording and person being recorded).
     
  12. BigJamesBrown

    BigJamesBrown Member

    I understand, but while on UPS property we aren't we under the assumption that we are being videotaped anyway? We have no presumption of privacy , so I wonder if that matters in this case?
     
  13. RolloTony Brown Town

    RolloTony Brown Town Active Member

    Even if you’re correct, if you’re recording someone then they could argue that you aren’t working.

    The grievance will be won with times, supervisors’ names, work being performed, and witnesses. Why take the extra risk? Why try to reinvent the wheel?
     
  14. BigJamesBrown

    BigJamesBrown Member

    Knowing what I know about management, they could and would argue the fact that you are not working!
     
  15. BrownMonk

    BrownMonk Old fart Package Car Driver


    You are under that assumption if signs are posted but only that the UPS may be videotaping you and your friends. You would have to notify them that you are videotaping them.
     
  16. Yolo

    Yolo Active Member

    If you are video taping them then you aren't working. You can be canned for stealing time.
     
  17. Superteeth2478

    Superteeth2478 Active Member

    Take it from me, the supervisors working grievance master. Just take note of what the supervisors are doing and take note of the approximate time and what they were doing. Update the notes when what they're doing changes. Write in shorthand. Write quickly. Work consistently. Keep an eye on them, but keep working.

    All the supervisors I see work regularly are at triple-time for me, and today was the single worst (or best, depending on how you look at it) day for supervisors working grievances. $1,250 in one day. Good luck to the company if they want to take 120 grievances (and counting) for the month of May from ONE PERSON to panel to contest them. They'll be laughed out of the panel room.
     
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  18. You will not be paid in full for your grievances. I hope you will get as much of what you're owed as possible.
     
  19. Superteeth2478

    Superteeth2478 Active Member

    Well, if they take them to panel like I said, they'll be hard-pressed to explain the sheer volume of grievances since March with the typical excuse of "understaffing"...I will definitely report back on whether or not I get a $100,000 windfall at the end of the year from these grievances!
     
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  20. You do not get to decide to take the case to panel, the BA does. If you're off just by 1 minute on you're hundreds of grievances your case could be thrown out. The company can pull out video footage if its gets that far. If your grievance case gets thrown out this will set precedence for future grievance hearings and will negatively impact the union. The union will not allow the case to go to panel. I know this because I have tried....
     
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