Ground Folks: Reactions to Delivering Express

[Gone fishin]

You’re living in the past. They will hv full time contractors doing the work. I could also see pay incentives for time commitments made and productivity. They are feeling the pressure to combine the two and they aren’t gonna make ground driver’s employees. They hv slowly chipped away at our benefits for years! You better hv a back up plan, I do

I’ll retire in a couple years so this really doesn’t apply to me , comfortably. I’m merely speaking on the younger couriers I know hoping they can make a good living at express.
I think down the road as Lyft and Uber start being recognized as company employees ground and other companies like them will follow. At least to some extent
Don’t forget express is the cash cow in revenue.

 

[dmac1]

And what's the average stem?

Ground has a tiny hub here, but HD is still 70 miles away. I can't believe that ALL of HD and ALL of ground aren't in the same terminal everywhere. The HD driver here almost never delivers my packages the day he gets them. They will be 'out for delivery' for as many as 3 days, and then end up at someone else's house. We have 6 streets from 18th st to 23rd st with house all numbered the same on different streets. So if the driver is on 22nd st, and sees his next stop is numbered 265 23rd, if his previous delivery is 247 22nd street, all he may look for is the house number, because for a new driver, they just never seem to bother verifying they are on the right street and/or at the right house. Amazon at least now allows you to give very specific instructions, and they have misdelivered fewer vehicles since then. They know from their scanner to look for a red car AND a camper in my driveway. The HD drivers seem to change from day to day, so never learn to be careful. I might have been the only fedex driver who NEVER misdelivered a package because I always verified I was in the right spot, even in the middle of nowhere- once looked through a eindow and saw a magazine with the name/address, once through a car window and saw the gegistration on the dash, once lifter the lid off a trash can and saw thrown out mail. I did NOT want to spend another hour the next day driving up some rutted road twenty miles up some damn mountain again if I could spend an extra minute to verify the address. Yet here, living in town with streets clearly marked, and my house number right on the house facing the road, clearly visible, I get maybe 10% of my packages misdelivered. I have no idea how much of my mail goes missing. It is not only HD, but UPS, USPS, and ground. Amazon is doing much better with their system recently.

 

[dmac1]

I’ll retire in a couple years so this really doesn’t apply to me , comfortably. I’m merely speaking on the younger couriers I know hoping they can make a good living at express.
I think down the road as Lyft and Uber start being recognized as company employees ground and other companies like them will follow. At least to some extent
Don’t forget express is the cash cow in revenue.

Here in California- the biggest state with something like 1/7 of the country's poplulation, the opposite happened. The state recognized Uber and Lyft drivers as NON employees, while giving them some benefits. Usually, other states follow California's lead on these issues, after a couple years to see how it works out.

What really needs to happen is the the Contractors who contract with fedex need to be able to hire their own independent contractors. I have no clue why fedex thinks they can hire contractors, but then require that all the drivers be employees of the contractor. Demanding that an independent business contractor hire employees kind of takes away the independence of the contractor.

 

[bbsam]

It’s obvious you guys have no idea how to engineer routes. The 150-200 stop routes are very dense and near the terminal. 100 to 150 about half hour out. 70 to 100 45 minutes out. It’s not that difficult. And you make variations here and there according to what drivers can and will handle.

 

[bbsam]

Here in California- the biggest state with something like 1/7 of the country's poplulation, the opposite happened. The state recognized Uber and Lyft drivers as NON employees, while giving them some benefits. Usually, other states follow California's lead on these issues, after a couple years to see how it works out.

What really needs to happen is the the Contractors who contract with fedex need to be able to hire their own independent contractors. I have no clue why fedex thinks they can hire contractors, but then require that all the drivers be employees of the contractor. Demanding that an independent business contractor hire employees kind of takes away the independence of the contractor.

If anyone were to get serious about attacking the Ground contract, I’d say their best bet would to be to have a court find it to be an unconscionable contract.

 

[zeev]

Here in California- the biggest state with something like 1/7 of the country's poplulation, the opposite happened. The state recognized Uber and Lyft drivers as NON employees, while giving them some benefits. Usually, other states follow California's lead on these issues, after a couple years to see how it works out.

What really needs to happen is the the Contractors who contract with fedex need to be able to hire their own independent contractors. I have no clue why fedex thinks they can hire contractors, but then require that all the drivers be employees of the contractor. Demanding that an independent business contractor hire employees kind of takes away the independence of the contractor.

Political corruption allows FedEx to play by different rules than the contractors.

 

[dmac1]

Political corruption allows FedEx to play by different rules than the contractors.

I think that as long as the same general amount of taxes goes into state coffers, the legislatures and courts won't do anything. I don't know if corruption has nuch to do with it. I would bet that if the feds and states were losing money, the campaign contributions wouldn't matter that much.

 

[Cactus]

It’s obvious you guys have no idea how to engineer routes. The 150-200 stop routes are very dense and near the terminal. 100 to 150 about half hour out. 70 to 100 45 minutes out. It’s not that difficult. And you make variations here and there according to what drivers can and will handle.

Try telling THAT to the so-called engineers st Express. They think their computers tell the whole story and wouldn’t be caught dead riding with a driver. Besides, X stopped seeking courier input a long time ago.

 

[bbsam]

Try telling THAT to the so-called engineers st Express. They think their computers tell the whole story and wouldn’t be caught dead riding with a driver. Besides, X stopped seeking courier input a long time ago.

Actually, you raise a good point. I was just about to pm @It will be fine about this.

Last night when setting up routes, I noticed the time estimates were much lower for routes than in the past. Only thin I can think of is that X is has been tracking driver times and inputting to DRO to set future expectations. Which of course means they want those 200 stop routes going to 250/260.

I for the most part didn’t pay attention to the times but always saw them as I looked over the routing reports for stop counts, cubic footage to each route, etc. it’s possible that FedEx told us this would be done but I certainly don’t remember it. Right now I feel like a conspiracy theorist but I’m positive that one way or another their algorithms have changed.

 

[Operational needs]

Actually, you raise a good point. I was just about to pm @It will be fine about this.

Last night when setting up routes, I noticed the time estimates were much lower for routes than in the past. Only thin I can think of is that X is has been tracking driver times and inputting to DRO to set future expectations. Which of course means they want those 200 stop routes going to 250/260.

I for the most part didn’t pay attention to the times but always saw them as I looked over the routing reports for stop counts, cubic footage to each route, etc. it’s possible that FedEx told us this would be done but I certainly don’t remember it. Right now I feel like a conspiracy theorist but I’m positive that one way or another their algorithms have changed.

Stupid question that I never thought of... By reading this, are you saying that FedEx decides how many stops your routes are going to have?

 

[It will be fine]

Stupid question that I never thought of... By reading this, are you saying that FedEx decides how many stops your routes are going to have?

The routing program assumes 3 min/stop. You could let the computer cut routes based on time for each driver that way. I’ve never heard of anyone doing that though, because that’s obviously insane.

They might have dropped the average time per stop assumption from what Sam is saying. I’ve never even looked at the time column on the reports.

 

[bbsam]

The routing program assumes 3 min/stop. You could let the computer cut routes based on time for each driver that way. I’ve never heard of anyone doing that though, because that’s obviously insane.

They might have dropped the average time per stop assumption from what Sam is saying. I’ve never even looked at the time column on the reports.

I guess I was naive to think that they wouldn’t have input on that side of the planning.

 

[bbsam]

Stupid question that I never thought of... By reading this, are you saying that FedEx decides how many stops your routes are going to have?

Yes and no. They will never say so but it would s definitely built into pay structure and they determined ho much each CSA (Contracted Service Area is worth.

 

[bacha29]

Yes and no. They will never say so but it would s definitely built into pay structure and they determined ho much each CSA (Contracted Service Area is worth.

And you guys are supposed to be "Independent Service Providers" who "negotiate" rate and free structure? Thank you. I needed a good laugh today and you guys kindly obliged.

 

[bbsam]

And you guys are supposed to be "Independent Service Providers" who "negotiate" rate and free structure? Thank you. I needed a good laugh today and you guys kindly obliged.

We’ll see. Year over year I’ve always made more money. Maybe its a bad deal, maybe it’s “par for the course”.

Overall though, you’ve never understood the concept of “independent contractor” in the legal sense. Or maybe you’ve understood it and just didn’t like the definition. Either way, FedEx won’t abandon it to satisfy your liking. They’ll have failures and adjust their valuations and continue on and people like me will decide whether it’s worth it or that it’s time to sell out. No sense in getting all emotional about it.

 

[bacha29]

We’ll see. Year over year I’ve always made more money. Maybe its a bad deal, maybe it’s “par for the course”.

Overall though, you’ve never understood the concept of “independent contractor” in the legal sense. Or maybe you’ve understood it and just didn’t like the definition. Either way, FedEx won’t abandon it to satisfy your liking. They’ll have failures and adjust their valuations and continue on and people like me will decide whether it’s worth it or that it’s time to sell out. No sense in getting all emotional about it.

Ok Let's put it this way. An "independent contractor" ? The reality is that you're a non employee administrator of a supply chain. Furthermore, as long as you are subjected on a continuous daily basis to the stern governance and absolute power of your one and only customer and every cent of money to your name is tied up in equipment whose design and specifications are set up to exclusively serve your one and only customer and on a 1 year basis you are not and never will be an "independent contractor" or independent businessman.

From your end it's not INDEPENDENT but rather it's DEPENDENT. Your 100% totally dependent on the good graces and specific moves on the part of some other person or persons that will result in the liquidation payoff you're counting on. As we've discussed before what Fat Freddy and others have tied up in the venture and have had tied up in it for decades before you came along and is comprised to a considerable degree of multi generational family trusts along with the voting rights that comes with them, that wealth will always be preserved thanks to those voting rights and the preservation of the by comparison pittance you've got in it will not impact in any way shape or form how those shares are voted.

An independent contractor? I do in fact know what one is and what one isn't . And what you are isn't .

 

[It will be fine]

Ok Let's put it this way. An "independent contractor" ? The reality is that you're a non employee administrator of a supply chain. Furthermore, as long as you are subjected on a continuous daily basis to the stern governance and absolute power of your one and only customer and every cent of money to your name is tied up in equipment whose design and specifications are set up to exclusively serve your one and only customer and on a 1 year basis you are not and never will be an "independent contractor" or independent businessman.

From your end it's not INDEPENDENT but rather it's DEPENDENT. Your 100% totally dependent on the good graces and specific moves on the part of some other person or persons that will result in the liquidation payoff you're counting on. As we've discussed before what Fat Freddy and others have tied up in the venture and have had tied up in it for decades before you came along and is comprised to a considerable degree of multi generational family trusts along with the voting rights that comes with them, that wealth will always be preserved thanks to those voting rights and the preservation of the by comparison pittance you've got in it will not impact in any way shape or form how those shares are voted.

An independent contractor? I do in fact know what one is and what one isn't . And what you are isn't .

I created a whole thread for you to post this type of nonsense in.

 

[Mutineer]

I created a whole thread for you to post this type of nonsense in.

Yes. And he could cheerfully fill volumes.

But it's far from all nonsense. Although sometimes often repetitive and eyeroll inducing.

I admire his tenacity. Although it borders on pathological.

I use him as miners would use a canary:

When the day comes he fails to opine on the subject of FedEx I will know that he has become incapacitated. Or that the Black Helicopters have arrived in Jim-bob-we and he is busying himself with turning in his neighbors for stockpiling guns for bread line privileges while eagerly and gratuitously prosthelytizing himself to the New World Order.

 

[dmac1]

I created a whole thread for you to post this type of nonsense in.

We’ll see. Year over year I’ve always made more money. Maybe its a bad deal, maybe it’s “par for the course”.

Overall though, you’ve never understood the concept of “independent contractor” in the legal sense. Or maybe you’ve understood it and just didn’t like the definition. Either way, FedEx won’t abandon it to satisfy your liking. They’ll have failures and adjust their valuations and continue on and people like me will decide whether it’s worth it or that it’s time to sell out. No sense in getting all emotional about it.

Thank you IWBF. bbsam is posting nonsense.

If you are independent, why can't you hire independent contractors as needed instead of employees??? Can you load up all the packages and take them to your own location closer to your serviced areas and divided them among your trucks to reduce stem miles? Instead of have 6,7,20 drivers all leaving the fedex terminal and driving 20 stem miles each way, can you rent a storage unit, or rent parking space, and save 40 minutes of drive time per day for 6,7.or 20 drivers? There are dozens more ways that a contractor could increase efficiency and profit if they wre REALLY independent. FEDEX was sued and forced to settle BECAUSE fedex did NOT meet the legal definition of independence. They never made contractors more independent- they just made it harder for someone to sue them. Your claim of being leagal has ZERO merit.

It is bbsam who clearly has no idea of the legal meaning of indepent contractor statutes. Just because fedex has made it harder to show that you have suffered financial damage, and made it much more of a risk for a contractor sue does not mean you have even a tiny bit more independence. Forcing contractors to put even more dollars at risk with more vehicles does not mean you have more independence. Alll it means is that fedex is safer. If you are independent, why can't you decide to only operate one route??? It is because fedex wants you to think 5 times as hard before you think about putting your investment at risk. One truck is easy to risk, a fleet of six, seven, or 20 starts being real serious risk.

 

[It will be fine]

Thank you IWBF. bbsam is posting nonsense.

If you are independent, why can't you hire independent contractors as needed instead of employees??? Can you load up all the packages and take them to your own location closer to your serviced areas and divided them among your trucks to reduce stem miles? Instead of have 6,7,20 drivers all leaving the fedex terminal and driving 20 stem miles each way, can you rent a storage unit, or rent parking space, and save 40 minutes of drive time per day for 6,7.or 20 drivers? There are dozens more ways that a contractor could increase efficiency and profit if they wre REALLY independent. FEDEX was sued and forced to settle BECAUSE fedex did NOT meet the legal definition of independence. They never made contractors more independent- they just made it harder for someone to sue them. Your claim of being leagal has ZERO merit.

It is bbsam who clearly has no idea of the legal meaning of indepent contractor statutes. Just because fedex has made it harder to show that you have suffered financial damage, and made it much more of a risk for a contractor sue does not mean you have even a tiny bit more independence. Forcing contractors to put even more dollars at risk with more vehicles does not mean you have more independence. Alll it means is that fedex is safer. If you are independent, why can't you decide to only operate one route??? It is because fedex wants you to think 5 times as hard before you think about putting your investment at risk. One truck is easy to risk, a fleet of six, seven, or 20 starts being real serious risk.

Shuttle locations are becoming pretty popular with rural contractors. I’ve heard of several contractors doing exactly what you describe.