Gym Jordan

[DriveInDriѵeOut]

Aww someone learned a new term and used it to try to look smart. How cute.

Bless your heart.

 

[vantexan]

You do know all human beings at their “most basic levels of dna” whatever that means are 99.9% identical correct? This includes men, women, blacks, whites, Muslims, Christians, atheists, etc.

I wasn't aware that race and religion are factors in determining gender. Very informative.

 

[El Correcto]

I wasn't aware that race and religion are factors in determining gender. Very informative.

The reason for this similarity yet at the same time so much diversity is the numbers involved in this. That .1% contains a very large amount of genes that have mutated or other wise not perfect copies of the genes passed to the child, this is known as genetic variations and is a driving force of evolution.
X and Y chromosomes are not a monolith, they are also susceptible to mutations and are not a 100% similar to even the parents of the child, even the Y chromosome passed directly from father to son. When you are discussing the Y and X chromosome of another human, yes they play a similar role in determining sex as your but they are not the exact same as yours.

 

[Box Ox]

You do know all human beings at their “most basic levels of dna” whatever that means are 99.9% identical correct?

Does that mean men can be women and women can be men?

 

[El Correcto]

Does that mean men can be women and women can be men?

No but that is explained in the next paragraph I gave him while ignoring his ignorant straw man attempt once he found out he was in too deep for this discussion.

Yes absolutely people with XY chromosomes can be women, intersex people exist. Further proof of how stupid it is to treat XY chromosomes as a monolith.

 

[Box Ox]

No but that is explained in the next paragraph I gave him while ignoring his ignorant straw man attempt once he found out he was in too deep for this discussion.

Yes absolutely people with XY chromosomes can be women, intersex people exist. Further proof of how stupid it is to treat XY chromosomes as a monolith.

What percentage of the transgender population in the US do you figure might be intersex?

 

[El Correcto]

What percentage of the transgender population in the US do you figure might be intersex?

See we don’t understand all the intricacies of this. But instead of filling the gaps with ignorance and hatred, maybe a bit of compassion and reasonableness is in order.
This is one thing the articles I provided you was pointing out but you threw a hissy fit that one of the articles was from an educated transgender woman and instantly dismissed her.

We don’t know for sure.
But there is evidence to gender identity being a biological phenomenon much more than just merely a social construct or “artificial” construct as you called it.

 

[Box Ox]

there is evidence to gender identity being a biological phenomenon much more than just merely a social construct

So both sex and gender are biological phenomenon now?

 

[El Correcto]

So both sex and gender are biological phenomenon now?

There is evidence pointing that direction yes.
We do not understand gender on a biological level, just like we don’t understand sexuality on a biological level.
What makes a human being with an XY chromosome turn into an infertile woman?
We also don’t know that, but that gap isn’t being filled in with ignorance or hatred. People aren’t reeeeeeing you’re a man!!!

 

[Box Ox]

So both sex and gender are biological phenomenon now?

There is evidence pointing that direction yes.
We do not understand gender on a biological level, just like we don’t understand sexuality on a biological level.
What makes a human being with an XY chromosome turn into an infertile woman?
We also don’t know that, but that gap isn’t being filled in with ignorance or hatred. People aren’t reeeeeeing you’re a man!!!

So you've changed your mind about gender being a social construct?

They will always be the sex they were born as. Anyone telling them they are actually women are not right about that. They are transgender women. Gender is a social construct, the term was defined in like the 1940’s-60’s from what I understand it was just misused by other people.

 

[El Correcto]

So you've changed your mind about gender being a social construct?

Yes and before this moment as well.

I agree it is very simple, I’d say gender goes a bit beyond a social construct.

Time to Move Beyond "Gender Is Socially Constructed"

Why discussions of gender can become confusing, contradictory and downright incoherent.

www.psychologytoday.com

The idea that gender was socially constructed was brought forth by Money, the pedophile bad guy the right likes to boogeyman anyone with to shut down conversations of gender.
It goes a bit beyond a social construct when it comes to transgender individuals.

 

[Box Ox]

So you've changed your mind about gender being a social construct?

Yes and before this moment as well.

So sex and gender are the same now? You didn't appreciate my conflation of the two a few weeks ago.

 

[El Correcto]

So sex and gender are the same now? You didn't appreciate my conflation of the two a few weeks ago.

I don’t believe that no.
Sex and gender are different things, as I’ve said many times.

 

[Box Ox]

I don’t believe that no.
Sex and gender are different things, as I’ve said many times.

But you were arguing that they're different before you started saying that gender is also biological. I think I might need an updated lesson on how they're different.

 

[El Correcto]

But you were arguing that they're different before you started saying that gender is also biological. I think I might need an updated lesson on how they're different.

Okay how about this.
Your hair color is biological, that doesn’t mean your hair color is gender.
Just like your sex biological, doesn’t mean your sex is gender.
Does that clarify it for you enough?
Just because two things are biological doesn’t mean they are the same thing.

 

[Box Ox]

Sex and gender are different things, as I’ve said many times.

But you were arguing that they're different before you started saying that gender is also biological. I think I might need an updated lesson on how they're different.

Okay how about this.
Your hair color is biological, that doesn’t mean your hair color is gender.
Just like your sex biological, doesn’t mean your sex is gender.
Does that clarify it for you enough?

Nope. Nothing in there about how sex and gender are different given the new biological definition of gender.

 

[El Correcto]

Nope. Nothing in there about how sex and gender are different given the new biological definition of gender.

I’d say you are very binary and old school about how you view gender and sex.
Biology doesn’t back binary worldviews on this and provides evidence against binary thinking.
We just have a history of shoehorning people who don’t fit the traditional binary into the binary, like surgeries on intersex babies instead of just letting them be.

Surgeries on Intersex Infants are Bad Medicine

Sex, gender, and medical interventions for young people have been wildely discussed in state legislatures this year, with a record number of states introducing bills which would limit or prohibit gender-affirming care for transgender youth. Gender-affirming care is supported and recognized as...

healthlaw.org

I don’t see a lot of outrage at bad medical practice that reinforces this binary.

 

[DriveInDriѵeOut]

But there is evidence to gender identity being a biological phenomenon much more than just merely a social construct or “artificial” construct as you called it.

Nope.

 

[vantexan]

The reason for this similarity yet at the same time so much diversity is the numbers involved in this. That .1% contains a very large amount of genes that have mutated or other wise not perfect copies of the genes passed to the child, this is known as genetic variations and is a driving force of evolution.
X and Y chromosomes are not a monolith, they are also susceptible to mutations and are not a 100% similar to even the parents of the child, even the Y chromosome passed directly from father to son. When you are discussing the Y and X chromosome of another human, yes they play a similar role in determining sex as your but they are not the exact same as yours.

No one is a carbon copy of their parents. But the genes determine the sex and there aren't any go between sexes. Evolution doesn't push a species towards no reproduction. Everything is about maintaining the viability of the species. What evolution does is produce physiology that's in sync with the local environment. Flat broad noses cool hot, humid air on intake for example while narrow noses warm air in cold environments. Pigmentation protects in sunny environments, lack of pigmentation takes in more of the available sunlight in areas with less direct sunlight like the far north or south. Put a white population in the Congo and through time and mutation they will develop the physiology necessary to cope with that environment. But it's a slow process. Where people who scoff at the idea of evolution get it wrong is they mistakenly believe that one day a monkey had a modern baby. More accurate to say a hominid had mutated over a very long time into what is now modern man. But as genes are a genetic code in much the same way as software is used to run computers it could very well be that through gene splicing, which today we are at the cusp of doing, a being of superior intelligence greatly altered the genetic makeup of a hominid and greatly sped up the development of modern man. Gave us the capacity to reason beyond the capabilities of any other species. But any mutation that resulted in no desire to reproduce by sexual interaction between sexes would be an evolutionary dead end. If you can't reproduce that mutation then you're totally dependent on the greater population to put forth similar mutations. Not likely. IMO a choice of behavior not driven by genetic makeup. There have been no studies that confirm a distinct gay gene but there has been plenty of effort to try. If they can determine what specific genes are assigned to do but can't find a gene that's unique to gay individuals then it's likely a behavioral issue until proven otherwise.

 

[El Correcto]

But the genes determine the sex and there aren't any go between sexes.

Uhm yes there is as we covered and I never said they didn’t.

Evolution doesn't push a species towards no reproduction.

Never claimed it did. Saying evolution pushes something towards anything isn’t exactly correct.
Evolution has pushed many species into extinction, 99% of all species to be exact. Natural selection isn’t fair or moral, neither is the mutations from what we can tell. They seem to be quite the opposite.

Everything is about maintaining the viability of the species. What evolution does is produce physiology that's in sync with the local environment.

No it’s not. Yet against biology does not deal in purposes or points, neither does evolution. Evolution has produced many species who were out of sync with their environment. Think about the dinosaurs that got struck by a meteor, it’s not exactly fair to say well they were a species living in this universe and should of been adapted to their planet being struck by a meteor.

Put a white population in the Congo and through time and mutation they will develop the physiology necessary to cope with that environment.

No this isn’t guaranteed or the goal of evolution, because yet against evolution doesn’t have goals or purposes. It’s not like your imaginary friend there to cater to your purposes or points.

Where people who scoff at the idea of evolution get it wrong is they mistakenly believe that one day a monkey had a modern baby. More accurate to say a hominid had mutated over a very long time into what is now modern man.

Yes genetic variance over a long enough time span can produce other species. Only complete idiots believe we are direct descendants of chimps, we share a family tree on evolution, they would be more like cousin species.

Gave us the capacity to reason beyond the capabilities of any other species. But any mutation that resulted in no desire to reproduce by sexual interaction between sexes would be an evolutionary dead end.

You sit there and rant about how smart humans are, then you follow it up with a very stupid statement I’ve already corrected you on before, just like the stupid statement you made when you said there are no intersex people.

IMO a choice of behavior not driven by genetic makeup.

This isn’t a shared view with biology, like most of your views.

There have been no studies that confirm a distinct gay gene but there has been plenty of effort to try. If they can determine what specific genes are assigned to do but can't find a gene that's unique to gay individuals then it's likely a behavioral issue until proven otherwise.

There you go filling in the gaps with ignorance and hate. I don’t see being lgbt as a problem, sorry we disagree.