Has anyone been pulled into their center manager's office to recite the DOK question?

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
"..it's really not that hard to do."



For *you*.

Most of us are just dumb truck drivers, however. Say we can't recite this from memory no matter how much we study? Is a warning letter really the answer to my learning disability? Do I get terminated next because I can't recite their garbage?

Does my over 20 years of safe driving and safe working history mean nothing because I can't commit their words to memory?
 

satellitedriver

Moderator
"..it's really not that hard to do."



For *you*.

Most of us are just dumb truck drivers, however. Say we can't recite this from memory no matter how much we study? Is a warning letter really the answer to my learning disability? Do I get terminated next because I can't recite their garbage?

Does my over 20 years of safe driving and safe working history mean nothing because I can't commit their words to memory?
I agree with you, over9five.
It is better to walk the walk, than talk the talk.
In my center ,I can not see some one being terminated over this issue, but maybe other centers are different.
PAX
 

Griff

Well-Known Member
I read 2 posts in this stream that misrepresent to the general BC population the proper course of action. This post was one of them.

Why would anyone tell a brother Teamster to "wait for them to discipline" (you). I am appalled to think that someone on this forum is advocating negative confrontation that will bring both sides a poor result. I can't even put into words how this sickens me.

The one positive aspect that I see and have seen through out the threads is that common sense prevails from the general BC population. The majority always seems to have good advice and realistic solutions to concerns that are brought up. My only fear is that impressionable folks can see through the negative and possibly detrimental advice a small percentage seem to advocate.

For example:
DO
1. Study on company time - Ask your supervisor or safety co-chair the best way to work this into the day. Maybe you can attend a safety meeting where the questions are reviewed.

2. The DOK questions are safety related - You, your co-workers and the general public benefit from the knowledge you gain - especially in an emergency!

3. Use good common sense - always seek information, instruction and guidance from more than one person and then formulate your action.

4. Listen to the voice of reason

DON'T

1. Listen to those that say it isn't in the contract so you don't have to do it. The contract wasn't meant to cover every aspect with specific language. There are many areas that have general language that cover those areas that are not specifically addressed. ....and where language is vague or left open to interpretation there is a dispute resolution process (grievance machinery).

2. Seek to be disciplined

3. Handle situations in a negative or combative or confrontational manner

Nice fantasy world you're living in. That isn't the way UPS works, at least not here. I've been issued many warning letters over my 6 or 7 years with UPS and I've gotten them *ALL* removed. I'll repeat myself, not one warning letter has ever stuck to me. Fortunately, management here hasn't been stupid enough to try to give me a warning letter for failing to recite safety poems. You shouldn't seek to be disciplined, but you should wait for it because most times it won't ever happen. UPS has a very defined tactic of trying to get what they want and it's up to you to throw it back in their face.

Here's a typical morning conversation for me with management.

Management: "Gee, you were overallowed yesterday, what happened out there?"

Me: "The union doesn't recognize your time standards."

Management: "What do you mean. These are your numbers, this is your production!!!!"

Me: "That's nice."

Management: "You have a cavalier attitude! You're looking for problems and you're gonna get them!"

Me: "So are you going to discipline me? More importantly are you threatening me?"

This is usually where they get red faced.

Me: "Didn't think so. Bye."

If management isn't willing to demonstrate that they are willing to discipline over the matter -- I have no reason to care. Weak threats are just that, weak threats. My job has been threatened more times than I can count on both hands for a variety of reasons. Have I ever been fired -- nope. I'm not liked because I call their bluffs, I don't take crap and I take what's mine. I give out advice on this board that I practice everyday of the week, my track record that I've spelled out in this post speaks for itself.


P.S. (EDIT) -- Anyone who follows his "DONT" list shouldn't bother paying union dues anymore. This is a sure fire way to become a laydown boy for your management team. Question everything, bring the contract up frequently, hold them accountable and don't put up with crap.
 
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currahee

Well-Known Member
My local just had a special meeting strictly to disuss the problems were having with mgmt team.The DOK topic came up and we were told by BA we dont need to know it. It does'nt say anything in the contract about it being a requirement but, when mgnt is breathing down my neck i rather learn it to keep them off my back.
I have overheard by a sup that i sees it coming to people being disqualified from driving they dont know it !! Yeah right
 

upsgrunt

Well-Known Member
Nice fantasy world you're living in. That isn't the way UPS works, at least not here. I've been issued many warning letters over my 6 or 7 years with UPS and I've gotten them *ALL* removed. I'll repeat myself, not one warning letter has ever stuck to me. Fortunately, management here hasn't been stupid enough to try to give me a warning letter for failing to recite safety poems. You shouldn't seek to be disciplined, but you should wait for it because most times it won't ever happen. UPS has a very defined tactic of trying to get what they want and it's up to you to throw it back in their face.

Here's a typical morning conversation for me with management.

Management: "Gee, you were overallowed yesterday, what happened out there?"

Me: "The union doesn't recognize your time standards."

Management: "What do you mean. These are your numbers, this is your production!!!!"

Me: "That's nice."

Management: "You have a cavalier attitude! You're looking for problems and you're gonna get them!"

Me: "So are you going to discipline me? More importantly are you threatening me?"

This is usually where they get red faced.

Me: "Didn't think so. Bye."

If management isn't willing to demonstrate that they are willing to discipline over the matter -- I have no reason to care. Weak threats are just that, weak threats. My job has been threatened more times than I can count on both hands for a variety of reasons. Have I ever been fired -- nope. I'm not liked because I call their bluffs, I don't take crap and I take what's mine. I give out advice on this board that I practice everyday of the week, my track record that I've spelled out in this post speaks for itself.


P.S. (EDIT) -- Anyone who follows his "DONT" list shouldn't bother paying union dues anymore. This is a sure fire way to become a laydown boy for your management team. Question everything, bring the contract up frequently, hold them accountable and don't put up with crap.

MANY warning letters in your 6 or 7 years? I'm not saying what you are doing is wrong, but I feel like you may be setting yourself up for a loooonnnnggg 24 years that come next. From what I've seen over the years, you may win the battles, but will never win the war. Now, I'm not saying you should just fold and be a yes man, but to have that kind of track record and reputation with just 6 or 7 years in is frightening. It's a marathon you're in and you've started running uphill, with no downhills in sight. Fight for what is right, but don't forget about the rest of the race. This is just my opinion- it and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.
 

Fnix

Well-Known Member
It doesnt matter what excuse you have to the overallowed question, even if it is true management will still blame it on you and I'd rather say The union doesn't recognize your time standards instead of saying I was in traffic.
 

Docparcel79

Well-Known Member
CURRAHEE.. we might be the same Local?? 653? Anyways I did go into the center manager's office the next week and recited most of the DOK questions. He was pleased with the progress that I had made from the previous week, but told me I'm still on the "List". How I got on that list is beyond me. I think he kind of forgot to bring me back for retesting, seeing that we had 3 accidents and a slip and fall injury all in one week!!!
 

currahee

Well-Known Member
I do work in Brockton and im sure we know each other. Our center manager's are just puppets from that corner office. Do your best and hang in there the most they can or will do is pull you off road and sit there all day studying.
 

Docparcel79

Well-Known Member
I'm hanging in there, I think you'll agree with me, I just think that we're all walking on egg shells with this guy in our building. I've never seen this many accidents or injuries in one year. Granted I've only been driving for 5 years. This is the worst I've seen it..
 

siouxman

siouxman
My local just had a special meeting strictly to disuss the problems were having with mgmt team.The DOK topic came up and we were told by BA we dont need to know it. It does'nt say anything in the contract about it being a requirement but, when mgnt is breathing down my neck i rather learn it to keep them off my back.
I have overheard by a sup that i sees it coming to people being disqualified from driving they dont know it !! Yeah right
i HAVE DRIVEN FOR 25 YEARS AND MOST OF THE THINGS THEY ARE ASKING US TO LEARN WE HAVE DONE FOR YEARS..iF THEY PUT ME ON THE CLOCK AND ASK ME TO LEARN THE INFORMATION i WILL.iF IT MAKES ME A SAFER DRIVER AND KEEPS ME OUT OF THE OFFICE WHY NOT.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
Griff,

I have been on both sides of the fence. At one point in my driving career, I had a mgmt team I did not trust and I was pro-union and scrapped all ideas of going into mgmt. That team left and I was fortunate enough to get a manager that cared about people. The walls of distrust came down.

Why do I care? Some would say that you are a lost cause, you will never change. I don't believe that. HOWEVER, if you continue thinking that you are untouchable you will eventually make enough mistakes to get yourself fired. All it takes is a mgmt person that can prove you are the MHN driver in a certain category and then puts the scope on you and lock & load. A savvy manager can get you. Forget about standards...are your methods one of the best in your center? If not, watch out. Someone will figure it out. I watched a manager lock and load on a driver that was psychologically impaired ...(literally he was crazy!) (I have first hand knowledge). He told me that helicopters and "G-men" were following him! It took 5 terminations but the last one stuck!
WHY WOULD YOU RISK THAT ON YOURSELF??? If what you say is true, there will be a shift in your center and building and things will change.

Warning letters (generally) cannot be grieved. If the warning leads to additional discipline then you can address it. The only way it comes out of your file is after nine months. You can ask to have it purged. In the mean time, you can actually be discharged if you have a warning in place. Again, why do you want to put yourself through that? Granted, you may win the case but your life has been interrupted and you can't get that time back.

You have to ask yourself....Is UPS a career for you or are you just putting in the time until something else comes along?

I may not have any impact on you but down the road maybe another 10 years from now (maybe sooner!), you will start to see the light. Wisdom comes with time and experience.

When you question whether your actions are right or wrong, do this little test... think of the person or persons whose opinion and respect matters to you above all (could be wife, mother, father etc.); think of that person standing right along side of you and how they would feel about your actions. I am sure we will chat some more. I am like you in that I will keep trying to make an impact!!!
 
:whiteflag:... the ones who oppose the saftey standards could always quit and go elsewhere, where they wouldnt have to actually do what there employer wanted of them.just think then you wouldnt be on this forum getting your bloodpressure all up:angry:....
 

Griff

Well-Known Member
Griff,

I have been on both sides of the fence. At one point in my driving career, I had a mgmt team I did not trust and I was pro-union and scrapped all ideas of going into mgmt. That team left and I was fortunate enough to get a manager that cared about people. The walls of distrust came down.

Why do I care? Some would say that you are a lost cause, you will never change. I don't believe that. HOWEVER, if you continue thinking that you are untouchable you will eventually make enough mistakes to get yourself fired. All it takes is a mgmt person that can prove you are the MHN driver in a certain category and then puts the scope on you and lock & load. A savvy manager can get you. Forget about standards...are your methods one of the best in your center? If not, watch out. Someone will figure it out. I watched a manager lock and load on a driver that was psychologically impaired ...(literally he was crazy!) (I have first hand knowledge). He told me that helicopters and "G-men" were following him! It took 5 terminations but the last one stuck!
WHY WOULD YOU RISK THAT ON YOURSELF??? If what you say is true, there will be a shift in your center and building and things will change.

Warning letters (generally) cannot be grieved. If the warning leads to additional discipline then you can address it. The only way it comes out of your file is after nine months. You can ask to have it purged. In the mean time, you can actually be discharged if you have a warning in place. Again, why do you want to put yourself through that? Granted, you may win the case but your life has been interrupted and you can't get that time back.

You have to ask yourself....Is UPS a career for you or are you just putting in the time until something else comes along?

I may not have any impact on you but down the road maybe another 10 years from now (maybe sooner!), you will start to see the light. Wisdom comes with time and experience.

When you question whether your actions are right or wrong, do this little test... think of the person or persons whose opinion and respect matters to you above all (could be wife, mother, father etc.); think of that person standing right along side of you and how they would feel about your actions. I am sure we will chat some more. I am like you in that I will keep trying to make an impact!!!

I've had all of mine purged/expunged, it's not in the double digit figure, but I think I'm close. All of them were completely bogus and I grieved all of them, so I have no clue why you claim you can't grieve them. The last few I haven't had to grieve because I never received them, they said they were giving me one and never sent it to me. If it's in my file I could careless because unless I get it in my hands it's not valid. I realize I'm mortal just like everyone else, I'm sure my time will come eventually. That's the way it goes here, you either go along to get along or you stick up for yourself. There's no middle ground for me and I refuse to lay down, even if it costs me the job. They better get rid of me before I get enough tenure under my belt to go on the union side of things and make a change.

Last few times I've been in the office they've had a who's who of management in there to intimidate me. Not gonna name names or titles, but it went far above the center level. When they come out and try to catch me on area, it's usually an entire car full of management (4-5). Pretty sure that isn't standard practice, they want me gone and I'm making them work for it.
 
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UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Griff, not to sound naive, but do you even enjoy going to work? To me, the job is stressful enough and, while I am not saying that you should become their b*tch, there has got to be some middle ground in there some place. If not, as stated above, you are indeed running a marathon (uphill) of which you have only completed 1/5 and are nowhere near Heartbreak Hill (Boston Marathon landmark). I am not about to tell you how to do your job or how to carry yourself as we are all adults here, but I just think that your life (at work) would be so much more enjoyable if you just blew a little sunshine up their butts every once in a while. If not, the remaining 4/5 of your marathon are indeed going to be all uphill.
 
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Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Some of the best advice I ever heard about going head to head with management, was that if you are one of those guys who is constantly in the office, you have to win every single time. Management just has to win once.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't stand up for what you think is right, just that you should pick your battles. 30 years is a long time to be angry.
 

LKLND3380

Well-Known Member
Just recently our center manager has been randomly pulling drivers into the office and making every driver recite the DOK question. If you don't know them, your given a week to study. You don't know them the following week, It's a warning letter. Has any driver been harrassed with these questions?

1. was your union steward pulled in with you?
Your Weingarten Rights:
"If this discussion could in any way lead to my being disciplined or terminated, or affect my personal working conditions, I respectfully request that my union representative OR steward be present at this meeting. If this discussion could lead to my being disciplined and you deny my request for representation, I choose not to answer any questions."

Now if they are going to be giving out warning letters, they must give EVERYONE who does not recite the Depth Of Knowledge word for word a warning letter... No excuses if the missed one or two words in a sentance...

EVERYONE must be treated equal...

If they miss one word or one sentence... They do not know it 100% and must be written up... Chances are half your building will be written up (or More) and that will look really bad for management...
 

LKLND3380

Well-Known Member
They are telling us it's for our safety. I think it's just another one of their plots to get you by the **** and harrass you

UPS had a lot of unsafe things going on year ago and OSHA was about to set a big fine on them. UPS settled and agreed to do all these safety things... blah blah blah...

If UPS fails to do these safety things, it's their @s$...

It is not a condition of employment and if it was then it would be outlined/addressed in the master agreement or supplements...
 
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