Has anyone been pulled into their center manager's office to recite the DOK question?

[paidslave]

Add ONs!

It doesn't amaze me that UPS isn't acknowledging our LABOR contract whatsoever! Where does it state you will get a WARNING letter if you can't recite this? Come on this is getting rediculous..............


This is like contracting someone to cut your grass and you ask the landscaper to recite how to make grass clipping!




DOT: Department of Transportation that LICENSE one to carry this LICENSE to DRIVE a truck or license taken away, simple!

Unless you are a repeater for accidents this harrassment! (my opinion)

I have 17 years safe driving and I couldn't recite these but I guarantee I do them! Come on: keep your following distance and eyes peeled and you should be fine! Car in front of you, you hit the brakes... Oh yeah, red means stop, green means go! Pretty simple!


I am all for the training but this goes overboard especially if you really can't recite it!!!!

I wonder if your manager can recite the contract ? If he can then better recite his dok or whatever you call it!............

If this is something you are supposed to do put it writing and put it in the contract this is the way I feel about it........especially if you are going to get disciplined for it! Remember, this is the contract that we APPROVED and voted on! I don't see it in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Use your GLANDS and file harrassment greivance if you are issued a warning letter over this!

This is only my opinion and talk to your BA!

 

[DS]

i HAVE DRIVEN FOR 25 YEARS AND MOST OF THE THINGS THEY ARE ASKING US TO LEARN WE HAVE DONE FOR YEARS..iF THEY PUT ME ON THE CLOCK AND ASK ME TO LEARN THE INFORMATION i WILL.iF IT MAKES ME A SAFER DRIVER AND KEEPS ME OUT OF THE OFFICE WHY NOT.

no screaming, thank you DS

 

[tieguy]

UPS had a lot of unsafe things going on year ago and OSHA was about to set a big fine on them. UPS settled and agreed to do all these safety things... blah blah blah...

If UPS fails to do these safety things, it's their @s$...

It is not a condition of employment and if it was then it would be outlined/addressed in the master agreement or supplements...

Are you really going to advise people against doing what their boss tells them they need to do? Everything required of you is not outlined in the national agreement. You're setting people up to get shot.

 

[tieguy]

Re: Add ONs!

Unless you are a repeater for accidents this harrassment! (my opinion)

I have 17 years safe driving and I couldn't recite these but I guarantee I do them! Come on: keep your following distance and eyes peeled and you should be fine! Car in front of you, you hit the brakes... Oh yeah, red means stop, green means go! Pretty simple!


I am all for the training but this goes overboard especially if you really can't recite it!!!!

I wonder if your manager can recite the contract ? If he can then better recite his dok or whatever you call it!............

If this is something you are supposed to do put it writing and put it in the contract this is the way I feel about it........especially if you are going to get disciplined for it! Remember, this is the contract that we APPROVED and voted on! I don't see it in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Use your GLANDS and file harrassment greivance if you are issued a warning letter over this!

This is only my opinion and talk to your BA!

Your BA's already know all about it. Its more safety training anyway you shake it.

You're one of many posters to make the point that this is not required because its not in the contract. Could someone tell me where I can find all the job requirements including the 340 methods in the contract?

 

[LKLND3380]

Are you really going to advise people against doing what their boss tells them they need to do? Everything required of you is not outlined in the national agreement. You're setting people up to get shot.

I am advising that they can not be singled out and be held to a higher standard... If one is written up then EVERYONE who doesn not recite them word for word must also be written up...

Just because someone can recite word for word does not mean they apply the knowledge...

UPS wants people to learn and say it is a condition of employment then they MUST expect grievences to be filed and a lot of people being paid for suspensions on a National scale....Not one center but ALL centers...

If UPS is going to write people up and suspend them they will probably loos 25% to 30% of their drivers and preloaders NATION WIDE... That would create such a slow down in work and financial loss for the company...

 

[UPS Lifer]

Lakeland or anyone else concerned about this,


If there is a management team out there that expects people to know the Ketter questions or anything word for word they are in for problems if they try to enforce it or discipline folks for it. Common sense should prevail. This is not the intent of DOK.
DOK means Depth Ofriend Knowledge. An auditor wants to see how well someone understands the intent of the process or procedure. Memorizing an answer is not DOK!!! Understanding the answer is DOK. You could actually be marked off if you can't put into plain words what you memorized!!! Trust me I have seen this happen. I also was an auditor.

For example - the memorized answer for one of the questions is... Don't Touch - leave the area - notify supervisor - If the auditor asks you why and you don't know you could be marked off.
DOK is - "i don't want to touch the substance because it could harm me. We need to stay clear because the package could contain a hazardous substance we can not see or smell and the supervisor needs to let the next level of mgmt know what is going on and also get a first responder to assess the nature of the hazard."

If you have a Depth of Knowledge - you can rattle that answer off - unscripted and understand what you said - As long as an auditor knows you understand (DOK) you will not be marked wrong. If you miss a major point of what the question is you could be marked off. Know and Understand the answer (DOK) is the best advice anyone can give you.

 

[paidslave]

Re: Add ONs!

Your BA's already know all about it. Its more safety training anyway you shake it.

You're one of many posters to make the point that this is not required because its not in the contract. Could someone tell me where I can find all the job requirements including the 340 methods in the contract?

Not in there TIE!

Pretty weak if company wants to back up there METHODS in arbritation if its not COLLECTIVELY bargained!!

This is the reason why UPS would like drivers to sign documents!

 

[govols019]

Lakeland or anyone else concerned about this,


If there is a management team out there that expects people to know the Ketter questions or anything word for word they are in for problems if they try to enforce it or discipline folks for it. Common sense should prevail. This is not the intent of DOK.
DOK means Depth Ofriend Knowledge. An auditor wants to see how well someone understands the intent of the process or procedure. Memorizing an answer is not DOK!!! Understanding the answer is DOK. You could actually be marked off if you can't put into plain words what you memorized!!! Trust me I have seen this happen. I also was an auditor.

For example - the memorized answer for one of the questions is... Don't Touch - leave the area - notify supervisor - If the auditor asks you why and you don't know you could be marked off.
DOK is - "i don't want to touch the substance because it could harm me. We need to stay clear because the package could contain a hazardous substance we can not see or smell and the supervisor needs to let the next level of mgmt know what is going on and also get a first responder to assess the nature of the hazard."

If you have a Depth of Knowledge - you can rattle that answer off - unscripted and understand what you said - As long as an auditor knows you understand (DOK) you will not be marked wrong. If you miss a major point of what the question is you could be marked off. Know and Understand the answer (DOK) is the best advice anyone can give you.

Tell that to our auditor. If you don't know it verbatim then she says it doesn't count. She's a safety nazi.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Re: Add ONs!

Not in there TIE!

Pretty weak if company wants to back up there METHODS in arbritation if its not COLLECTIVELY bargained!!

This is the reason why UPS would like drivers to sign documents!

Got to disagree with you on that one. Arbitrators are just that....arbitrators. They are not union and not management. They generally have a law or business background. If the company can show that you were trained and the documentation is there to substantiate it,you were able to demonstrate it and the company followed up with you and retrained you if necessary... you will lose every time. If not everytime.....just once (ha! ha!)!

The arbitrator is looking to see if what is being discussed is reasonable and fair not if everything is documented word for word in the contract.

I didn't always know everything about the contract but I always tried to be reasonable and fair and use good common sense. Follow the "Golden Rules" and you don't have to worry about the contract.... somehow you will do the right thing.

 

[Hangingon]

I don't know about the auditors, just what our center manager is requiring. Every morning 2 or 3 drivers report to his office and have to recite the DOK. Heading, how and key points word for word. Haven't heard anyone say he asked for anyone to paraphrase it in their own words.

 

[1timepu]

Been reading all this and it is about Safety??? They could care less about your health, when you get hurt on the job, they make you come in and sit around for 8hrs, they could care less when the package cars start in the morning with all of the fumes which will bring cancer down the road, Tornado please, you will still be delivering out there with a tornado warning> If they really cared you could sit home while you are hurt to recover from your injury, they would do something about the fumes, and they would warn you while out on the road about any weather warnings and if neccessary to take cover.

 

[tieguy]

Me: "So are you going to discipline me? More importantly are you threatening me?"

This is usually where they get red faced.

Me: "Didn't think so. Bye."

If management isn't willing to demonstrate that they are willing to discipline over the matter -- I have no reason to care. .

I know I have been hard on Griff in the past. Here in this post however Griff clearly shows his pride in his contribution to his job and his pride in being able to get his boss red faced. He is also proud of the fact that he totaly disregards any requests or instructions until his job is threatened. I think its important we recognize Griff for something he apparently does well and takes pride in.

 

[tieguy]

I am advising that they can not be singled out and be held to a higher standard... If one is written up then EVERYONE who doesn not recite them word for word must also be written up....

Thats fine but as you know we don't do group firiing squads. We start one victim at a time. You are pushing people into being the first one shot.

 

[tieguy]

Been reading all Aand it is about Safety??? They could care less about your health, when you get hurt on the job, they make you come in and sit around for 8hrs, they could care less when the package cars start in the morning with all of the fumes which will bring cancer down the road, Tornado please, you will still be delivering out there with a tornado warning> If they really cared you could sit home while you are hurt to recover from your injury, they would do something about the fumes, and they would warn you while out on the road about any weather warnings and if neccessary to take cover.

I'm sorry you feel that management does not care about your safety. However whether you feel managements loving intentions or not will not change anything. You are required to know the information. this point is reinforced through the ketter audits. Its not going away. You're better off learning the information and moving on. Your union is not fighting this unless they feel they can make a legitimate case in saying that you were not given sufficent time to learn it. Otherwise your union will support it as safety training.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Tell that to our auditor. If you don't know it verbatim then she says it doesn't count. She's a safety nazi.

Unfortunately...that is where experience comes in to play! However, if you know your stuff you won't get disciplined or lose your job.... Isn't that what is the main concern?

The whole point to this is safety first for you and fellow UPSers and the general public.

 

[LKLND3380]

Thats fine but as you know we don't do group firiing squads. We start one victim at a time. You are pushing people into being the first one shot.

This is why a Union Steward must be present... To make sure EVERYONE is treated the same and not one victim at a time...

This person said they were pulled into their Center Managers office but did not say IF a Steward was present...

 

[tieguy]

This is why a Union Steward must be present... To make sure EVERYONE is treated the same and not one victim at a time...

This person said they were pulled into their Center Managers office but did not say IF a Steward was present...

thats what we call a gift. no steward no discipline.

 

[Channahon]

Reading this entire thread, well, it justs makes me happier that I retired and left all this behind.

Just a few thoughts on this thread

Take UPS out of the equation, picture yourself as an employer and how would you handle employee safety training?

What is the root cause of accidents and injuries? Is UPS management out there, causing auto accidents and employee injuries?

Is the old equipment being used? Sure, and training is available to properly use the equipment.

Is there accountability on UPS employees to report faulty equipement? Yes, and the responsibility to fix the equipment are Teamster Automotive mechanics and Plant Engineering mechanics.

And it is management's responsibility to ensure the work is performed and documented effectively. And discipline has been taken with unacceptable repair work in both departments.

Auto accidents and employee injuries can and have been fatal in the work place. Life is short the way it is, why shorten it with not following and understanding safety, for yourself, your family and the general public.

 

[upsdude]

Lakeland or anyone else concerned about this,


If there is a management team out there that expects people to know the Ketter questions or anything word for word they are in for problems if they try to enforce it or discipline folks for it. Common sense should prevail. This is not the intent of DOK.
DOK means Depth Ofriend Knowledge. An auditor wants to see how well someone understands the intent of the process or procedure. Memorizing an answer is not DOK!!! Understanding the answer is DOK. You could actually be marked off if you can't put into plain words what you memorized!!! Trust me I have seen this happen. I also was an auditor.

For example - the memorized answer for one of the questions is... Don't Touch - leave the area - notify supervisor - If the auditor asks you why and you don't know you could be marked off.
DOK is - "i don't want to touch the substance because it could harm me. We need to stay clear because the package could contain a hazardous substance we can not see or smell and the supervisor needs to let the next level of mgmt know what is going on and also get a first responder to assess the nature of the hazard."

If you have a Depth of Knowledge - you can rattle that answer off - unscripted and understand what you said - As long as an auditor knows you understand (DOK) you will not be marked wrong. If you miss a major point of what the question is you could be marked off. Know and Understand the answer (DOK) is the best advice anyone can give you.

Thank You Thank You Thank You!!

You nailed it. As I've said before, the folks that can rattle this stuff off word for word are getting injured and crashing trucks. They don't have a clue how to APPLY WHAT THEY "KNOW".

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

We are in the middle of a Keter audit and I was chosen for a driver interview. Our center manager had given us the heads up yesterday that they would be in town so I took out my DOK paperwork, did some quick reviewing, and while I did not recite them verbatim, I came very close; in fact, the auditor said I was very close to having helped my center receive a bonus point. It really did not take that long to grasp the basics and it made quite an impression on the auditor and my center manager. FYI, there is a new question dealing with yard control which doesn't really pertain to package car drivers (we are considered "non-certified") and the auditor explained it to me but did say that it will be added to our DOK in the near future. I also made sure to change my start time to the time that the interview started and to put the interview time in the DIAD under Other Work.

My point in this post is that the DOK questions are not going away and whether you choose to accept or reject that concept is entirely up to you. Previous posts have made good points on both sides of this topic but I have come to the realization that it is just going to be easier to know this material and go about my business.