He said, she said Termination

GeorgiaBrown

Well-Known Member
Otherside,

If you read my post and I'm sure you did since you have spliced and diced it quite a bit with the quotations then I am satisfied that you saw that I closed it with the revelation that I will sheet according to UPS's requirements from now on.... it must be a sheer joy to be next to you on a boxline.... I can only imagine how popular you must be...regardless... you do your job and apparently don't have any problems with management at your location........ so either you are very fortunate or are a model example of what a UPS driver should be...congratulations!
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Otherside,

If you read my post and I'm sure you did since you have spliced and diced it quite a bit with the quotations then I am satisfied that you saw that I closed it with the revelation that I will sheet according to UPS's requirements from now on.... it must be a sheer joy to be next to you on a boxline.... I can only imagine how popular you must be...regardless... you do your job and apparently don't have any problems with management at your location........ so either you are very fortunate or are a model example of what a UPS driver should be...congratulations!

I am not the one fired, you are.

For 20 years, I do it by the book, each and everyday without fail. I make no excuses for doing the job the wrong way, there is no reason for it. The company provides us the tools to use for the job. All we have to do is use those tools and some common sense to stay out of trouble.

Where you and I split roads is where you begin to make a thousand excuses for why you failed. Just admit you did it the wrong way regardless of how many times you failed to do the job correctly over the years.

Just because you ran between raindrops over the years and didnt get caught making errors doesnt mean you can continue to do the job incorrectly in the future.

Accept that you made a serious miscalculation in judgement. Be an example for others to follow. Learn from your mistakes and become a better driver even though youve been around for 21 years.

Please stop with the excuses. I am positive that all the company wants to hear is that you made a mistake, an error, a learned behavior that went unchecked, and I am sure you can get back to work.

If you go with the "Im going to go hardline and fight for backpay", then the company will take a giant S H * T on you.

Dont go there. Humble down. You are guilty of NOT following proper delivery methods. 21 years is tooooo long to play the stupid card.

If you were a driver for 1 year, I can see some of those excuses taking flight, but not a 21 year vet.

Sometimes you just have to admit you were wrong and leave your pride at the guard shack.

You are not a victim, the customer is, and you are the cause, never forget that.

They come first and the company will protect them.

Do the right thing.

:peaceful:
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
Mike23,

I appreciate the positive sentiment....The BA said we have grounds for backpay but told me he was going to meet with UPS and present the new evidence and tell them they need to reinstate me immediately or we are going to panel and ask for all back pay.... I'm not sure which way I am going to go on this one...... going to panel, even with a good case is not a guaranteed win....... I feel like I definetly deserve back pay but I am not willing to lose my job in order to get it...
And I see they have you just where they want you.
 

GeorgiaBrown

Well-Known Member
Otherside,

You are assumming, naively I believe that the management personnel at my location are a direct reflection of you're experience with management.....how could you possibly comment on what the management structure here will do without having ever been exposed to them?......I've told everyone from the center manager, Division Manager and BA that I will not sheet packages as CLOH from now on....my intentions were never malicious (as I have stated repeatedly) in using CLOH.....admitting guilt in a local hearing (in which every single word is planned to be used against the hourly at the panel) is highly suspect at least in my experience here.....(I hope you don't plan to say otherwise, since as far as I know you have never been at this location).....having said that I recognize that my behavior is the cause of the problem... that was never the question... the question in my mind is "Why should it be perfectly acceptable to management to allow me to use this method for 5 years while it profits them (good numbers on center reports) only to turn around and crucify me for doing the very same thing at a later date?......is management not held accountable for anything or is it only the hourlies that are..... maybe you can answer that for me since you seem to have the correct reply for everything.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Otherside,

You are assumming, naively I believe that the management personnel at my location are a direct reflection of you're experience with management.....how could you possibly comment on what the management structure here will do without having ever been exposed to them?......I've told everyone from the center manager, Division Manager and BA that I will not sheet packages as CLOH from now on....my intentions were never malicious (as I have stated repeatedly) in using CLOH.....admitting guilt in a local hearing (in which every single word is planned to be used against the hourly at the panel) is highly suspect at least in my experience here.....(I hope you don't plan to say otherwise, since as far as I know you have never been at this location).....having said that I recognize that my behavior is the cause of the problem... that was never the question... the question in my mind is "Why should it be perfectly acceptable to management to allow me to use this method for 5 years while it profits them (good numbers on center reports) only to turn around and crucify me for doing the very same thing at a later date?......is management not held accountable for anything or is it only the hourlies that are..... maybe you can answer that for me since you seem to have the correct reply for everything.

Let me begin by addressing the management first. As another poster said on this thread earlier, sometimes too much power can corrupt the dumbest supervisor and end up costing the company more money in wasted manpower over a really stupid issue that could be handled in 5 seconds.

This is usually the case. I am no fan of management by any stretch and if you have ever read my positions, you will know that I believe most of them are not capable of running the business at the center levels.

That being said, this isnt the case at hand. Your supervisory crew is NOT responsible for your actions. YOU ARE. Plain and simple.

There are lots of drivers out there making big mistakes, some intentionally, some unintentionally, but there isnt one (1) management person looking over everything all the time and those mistakes can go un-noticed for years. Its called learned behaviors.

A learned behavior is something that is done repeatedly, goes unchecked and becomes "normal", that is, until a problem starts.

You have practiced "learned behaviors" by sheeting CLO H and no one bothered you about it, so you believe its ok to do so. However, now that a problem arose, that learned behavior got you in trouble and you want to plead some sort of ignorance to proceedures.

That just doesnt fly.

It could be that you went to the stop, shook the door and turned around and walked back to the truck, but there is one nagging question...Why not try the side door that you had knowledge about? Why now do you acknowledge a side entrance?

There are many things at fault in your case, the customer should burden some blame as well,

I dont believe the punishment fits the crime in this case, but I think you may have stirred a hornets nest by your attitude with your manager. Lots of guys think they have the balls to confront their managers in an agressive manner, but mostly they end up getting castrated.

I believe you will get your job back, as you should. You will be nothing more than an example for others to look at.

This is how the business is run now. The union has weakened our positions with this last contract and we are paying for it. (collectively)

As for management not being held accountable, well thats the million dollar question. There are plenty of idiots in positions of "management", trust me, ive seen hundreds come and go.

The problem I have with them is this, they dont manage anything. They are merely robots who follow some other idiots orders to the letter to the detriment to the company.

They have no decision making authority. They do what they are told even though they know they will impact the business negatively. Where I am, they are given the dispatch order each morning for the number of trucks to run for the day by IE. IE doesnt have the first clue about cube space, piece count, area knowledge, traffic patterns, mileage, pickups or any other aspect of the days operation. There only concern is a certain number of stops on the car to meet some unrealistic goal in order to blow smoke up some other management persons Keister. At the center level, the center manager's dont have the ability to question the dispatch and merely chop the routes and wait for the impending disaster.

Then, cars end up with over 200 stops a day plus pickups in 110 degree heat and at 6 oclock at the NDA relay, there are 33 trucks with over 60 stops each remaining for the day and a handful of pickups missed because they lack the cube space to cover them.

Hey, but IE got the magic number of stops on the cars for the day!! Too bad they cost the company twice the amount of money it would have cost to run the business for the day.

For the record, ive seen my share of "new sheriffs in town" managers who's ego's were bigger than the gut they lugged around..so nothing youve seen could be any worse.

Your case should have been a simple one, how it got to the point to where it is, is another million dollar question.

At any rate, at some point you will get your job back. There is no dishonesty involved here without absolute proof you were not at that address when you closed the stop. However, even with gps, a driver could go to a stop, pull a door, scan a pkg, place a clo1 on the diad screeen, NOT hit stop complete, leave a note and drive away to the next location only to realize he didnt stop complete the previous stop, then hits the stop complete and it appears as if it was stopped completed somewhere else.

This doesnt make a dishonesty case. There are many reasons that this can happen, distractions mostly, but it happens.

Your BA should be in the ear of the division manager everyday trying to make this case go away. Ive been involved with guys who have been fired 4 or 5 times who always got the job back, so its not impossible.

Just take my advice and accept your errors and agree to change the way you conduct business. Lose the attitude and humble down.

Good luck,

:peaceful:
 

GeorgiaBrown

Well-Known Member
Otherside,

I agree with the vast majority of your latest post. If anyone believes I intentionally acted in my (and the customers) own worst interest in this situation, then they are sadly mistaken.... I enjoy "flying under the radar" (as I believe most drivers do)......... who in the hell wants to perform our job, with all the physical, mental and environmental stresses and then top it off with management-employee blowups?.........I certainly know that I don't.......I have always maintained the attitude of "Let me do my job, effectively, efficiently and quickly and then let me go home and I will see you tommorrow"..........I hope to continue that idealogoy and not have any more issues with a broken management system... however unrealistic that idea may seem.......still appreciate your input as I do all those who have posted to this thread.....thanks!
 

bigblu 2 you

Well-Known Member
I am not the one fired, you are.

For 20 years, I do it by the book, each and everyday without fail. I make no excuses for doing the job the wrong way, there is no reason for it. The company provides us the tools to use for the job. All we have to do is use those tools and some common sense to stay out of trouble.

Where you and I split roads is where you begin to make a thousand excuses for why you failed. Just admit you did it the wrong way regardless of how many times you failed to do the job correctly over the years.

Just because you ran between raindrops over the years and didnt get caught making errors doesnt mean you can continue to do the job incorrectly in the future. i knew the ups perfect prototype model iso 9001 was out there,i just didnt know where.

Accept that you made a serious miscalculation in judgement. Be an example for others to follow. Learn from your mistakes and become a better driver even though youve been around for 21 years.

Please stop with the excuses. I am positive that all the company wants to hear is that you made a mistake, an error, a learned behavior that went unchecked, and I am sure you can get back to work.

If you go with the "Im going to go hardline and fight for backpay", then the company will take a giant :censored2: on you.

Dont go there. Humble down. You are guilty of NOT following proper delivery methods. 21 years is tooooo long to play the stupid card.

If you were a driver for 1 year, I can see some of those excuses taking flight, but not a 21 year vet.

Sometimes you just have to admit you were wrong and leave your pride at the guard shack.

You are not a victim, the customer is, and you are the cause, never forget that.

They come first and the company will protect them.

Do the right thing.

:peaceful:
 

Dustyroads

Well-Known Member
This last Friday, the Friday before Labor Day, at the pcm the topics included, "some businesses may be closed today, all of the day or part of the day. If you know someone is going to be closed and can get to the packages, just pull them off and leave them on the belts, don't bother recording them, we will take care of it. If you come across some on area that are closed, record them as closed holiday. I realize it's not actually a holiday, but record them that way, it's easier for us to keep track of them that way."
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
This last Friday, the Friday before Labor Day, at the pcm the topics included, "some businesses may be closed today, all of the day or part of the day. If you know someone is going to be closed and can get to the packages, just pull them off and leave them on the belts, don't bother recording them, we will take care of it. If you come across some on area that are closed, record them as closed holiday. I realize it's not actually a holiday, but record them that way, it's easier for us to keep track of [-]them[/-] You that way."
:knockedout:
 

GeorgiaBrown

Well-Known Member
Guys,

That is what is so maddening about this whole thing and it also ties into what Otherside was saying earlier about the ineptness of our management structure.....it is almost as if one hand does not know what the other is doing 95% of the time....
 

grgrcr88

No It's not green grocer!
Otherside,

I enjoy "flying under the radar" (as I believe most drivers do)......... who in the hell wants to perform our job, with all the physical, mental and environmental stresses and then top it off with management-employee blowups?.........I certainly know that I don't!


I certainly hope all you people who like to think like this pat your stewards on the back so you can continue it, You have seen but a small amount of the crap a steward has to deal with every single day!!!!
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
Guys,

That is what is so maddening about this whole thing and it also ties into what Otherside was saying earlier about the ineptness of our management structure.....it is almost as if one hand does not know what the other is doing 95% of the time....
And the other 5% of the time is bathroom time...................go figure.:knockedout:
 

GeorgiaBrown

Well-Known Member
88,

I sense that you are feeling unappreciated, so.........

Thanks to you and your hard work!

I take it that you don't appreciate my work philosophy.... and that is cool, I just need to please three people, the customer, my boss and myself.... as evident from this thread.... I have been having trouble with at least one of these....
 

grgrcr88

No It's not green grocer!
Dont get me wrong Georgia, I have no problem with you or anyone else flying under the radar, And after reading some of the other posts on here(stewards being soft) I read your post and felt I had to say something. Not directed at you at all. Sorry for that, just trying to make people aware of all the **** a steward has to put up with at UPS and its all voluntary work here, no pay no dues reimbursed, only done out of the concern for the other employees and there well being!!!
 

GeorgiaBrown

Well-Known Member
88,

I know that you guys deal with a lot of stuff.... a lot of it is avoidable on our part.......but believe me without the Union and it's representation UPS would have us out there delivering packages for $8.00 an hour.... doing the same workload.....and I am not a 100% union guy in every case.... but in my experience with UPS it is definetly a needed institution....
 

happybob

Feeders
Some facts of your case. You said they showed you delivery records that didnt have the delivery info on it? Then they had delivery records with the info on it? The dishonesty is on their part not yours GB. Take the info you have in hand and find a damm good labor attorney in your area. Skip the rest of the nonsense of the union getting you your job back. The woman you and your BS went to visit. Ask her to sign a statement to the affect they had gone out that day. The other poster that stated they were told the Friday before Labor Day to sheet the packages as CLO(H), will you sign a statement to that affect. Bring it all to a good labor lawyer, not only do you sue for reinstatement, but emotional stress as well. To the poster that said GB was doing things the wrong way, thats bull***** as well. All known closures have been sheeted as CLO(H) by many, as you can see form the many posters here. Maybe you heard it at one time in your career not to sheet them this way, but GB hasn't. Where's the dishonesty on GBs part? If you do accept your job back without back pay GB, you will be admitting guilt, that you did sonething wrong, and from the sounds of your post you are not a dishonest person. Can you live with admitting you are dishonest? Still, seek out a good labor lawyer and sue them anyway. :angry:
 
I can actually say that I know GeorgiaBrown personally and I know all about his situation. I have run his route many times and he has many places with funky work days. The DM,center manager, and Union are dirty as hell. He made one real mistake and it was he was on the radar for a previous attitude issue and sheeted a CLH instead of leaving notice and got a corp complaint to leave him wide open to be persecuted by the DM. Our DM is by far the most hated person in our building and has been firing people for any little infraction. Some day he will get paid back for :censored2: over employees. GeorgiaBrown take your lumps and god willing (and not horse traded at panel) that you get your job back for such a slap on wrist infraction. You are in my thoughts. I also used this forum when I got fired at the beginning of the year and these folk can be helpful. Keep your head up and hopefully it will be over soon.
 

GeorgiaBrown

Well-Known Member
dilligafah,

I appreciate the kind words..... the BA is supposed to put the new evidence out there for management on this coming Tuesday and ask for immediate reinstatement..... but it is all up to the Division Manager and like you said he is a supreme A-hole and does not mind leaving people out of work even if he has a loser of a case as he has stated on numerous occaisions "I don't care if I lose I've got deep pockets"........(the policy at our building is to leave hourlies out of work until the day of the panel and then offer them their job back if there is a signifcant chance of having to pay back pay....by that point most drivers are so desperate for paycheck they give in and come back to work)
 

GeorgiaBrown

Well-Known Member
HappyBob,

That was my mixup... when I researched the delivery records via my on-road supe..... I gave him the wrong date (July 31st instead of July 24th).... that is why I could not find the information I was looking for...UPS had all the relevant paperwork but I was not provided a personal copy.... and to be honest when I was terminated I was in disbelief and did not ask for a copy.... but the BA has all that now.... as for the rest of your post... I am not ready to admit to being dishonest because I was not dishonest... I used the wrong methods apparently and will have to change that in the future... but once again my bitterness about never having been called on it in the past (when I know damn well that they knew about it) is what is so irritating...
 
Top