Hoffa and Hall will be in Atlanta Feb 24

[wilberforce15]

Guys, why don't you leave the big boy stuff to the labor lawyers.

If you read the first link I gave, you'll see UPS suits talking about how the 1997 theme of "Part-Time America Won't Work" got America on the Teamsters' side so that UPS had to cave.

Here, I'll make it easy:

Ken Sternad, head of UPS PR in 1997: “We got slaughtered in the press. They focused their messaging around the theme of ‘Part-time America won’t work’ and that caught on with the media.” And these were "key messages that played well.”

If UPS fears public opinion more than anything, then that needs to be our main weapon. And that means focusing on part-time poverty.

 

[moreluck]

Guys, why don't you leave the big boy stuff to the labor lawyers. It's like listening to people who played football in high school sitting on there ass complaining about NFL coaches doing a piss poor job. Moreluck, it's 32 bucks an hour. And I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that you would rescind that comment if you worked here. We had athletes in their 20's quite within 5 days on the job.

I'll take the custard filled, choc. covered donuts.....thanks!

 

[stink219]

Guys, why don't you leave the big boy stuff to the labor lawyers.

If you read the first link I gave, you'll see UPS suits talking about how the 1997 theme of "Part-Time America Won't Work" got America on the Teamsters' side so that UPS had to cave.

Here, I'll make it easy:

Ken Sternad, head of UPS PR in 1997: “We got slaughtered in the press. They focused their messaging around the theme of ‘Part-time America won’t work’ and that caught on with the media.” And these were "key messages that played well.”

If UPS fears public opinion more than anything, then that needs to be our main weapon. And that means focusing on part-time poverty.

I don't disagree with you.

 

[QKRSTKR]

Hall is lowering expectations already. His statement is a subliminal message: "prepare to lose".

I disagree. When a guy comes out after the company drops on the table what they did, $90 a week for insurance, then he goes public and says we re not going to pay $90, $9, or 9 cents. Doesn't sound like someone ready to loose. He put a lot on the line already. If we pay anything, he ll have to hide his face in shame.

And if you guys can't understand public perspective, then we might be screwed. In case you haven't noticed, pro union isn't exactly very high in America right now. Nobody is gonna care when they see us on the picket line crying we only make $32 an hour, and UPS wants us to pay 20 bucks a week for insurance.

TFC, what would you consider a win?

 

[rudy5150]

They want $90 a week for insurance. $360 month....Not $20 a week

 

[QKRSTKR]

They want $90 a week for insurance. $360 month....Not $20 a week

That $90 a week is a freakin joke. UPS knows that, I Know that, guess maybe some people don't. I was just giving an example if we were to go on strike, that's what it may look like. $20 bucks must look pretty good to you, and that's what UPS wants, just for us to pay something. Hall told them were not paying anything.

 

[UnloadDrone]

Once we start paying it will never stop.

 

[upser92]

Hall is lowering expectations already. His statement is a subliminal message: "prepare to lose".

I disagree. When a guy comes out after the company drops on the table what they did, $90 a week for insurance, then he goes public and says we re not going to pay $90, $9, or 9 cents. Doesn't sound like someone ready to loose. He put a lot on the line already. If we pay anything, he ll have to hide his face in shame.

And if you guys can't understand public perspective, then we might be screwed. In case you haven't noticed, pro union isn't exactly very high in America right now. Nobody is gonna care when they see us on the picket line crying we only make $32 an hour, and UPS wants us to pay 20 bucks a week for insurance.

TFC, what would you consider a win?

America is also very anti-corporation right now as well. It'll be interesting to see what happens between two not so liked groups. I do believe hearing how apart both sides are that a strike is very likely and believe it will be a month

 

[Bagels]

America is also very anti-corporation right now as well. It'll be interesting to see what happens between two not so liked groups. I do believe hearing how apart both sides are that a strike is very likely and believe it will be a month

I don't believe America is anti-corporation right now; people were incensed with executive compensation packages for a few months in the late 2000s and then they forgot about it.

In terms of public perception, unfortunately, UPS holds leverage over the Teamsters. UPS will tout to the public: "Over the past 10 years, the average UPS driver has earned, on average, an additional $30,000* in compensation, including $9 an hour in raises. UPS drivers pay nothing towards their health care costs, which are among the best of any profession in America. Meanwhile, our rates have climbed XXX. UPS will continue to take care of its workforce, but we don't think it's fair for you to continue paying for it." Given that most Americans earn less today, factoring in health care, than they did ten years ago, it will outrage many.

Also keep in mind that in 1997, the status quo Fox News didn't exist.

*calculated from $9/hour raise, an average of 45/hours per week & 70% increase in family health care premiums (national average)

 

[rudy5150]

what about the part timers making minimum wages? They have a vote

 

[Bagels]

what about the part timers making minimum wages? They have a vote

If they've joined the union, yes. But even then most don't bother to vote.

 

[Asskicker]

I'd love to do an experiment and hire some of the nay sayers with no job and pay them 32 dollars an hour and see how long they last. Part time or full time, unless you've done this job you have no idea how hard it is to do this kind of physical labor for so many hours straight. Also I'm amazed at how many people I run into that either worked at UPS briefly or know someone who has and of course quit because they couldn't hack it. We might have more public sympathy then you think.

 

[Asskicker]

That's true about public's view of Unions...but that should actually work in our favor. Our Union has been crying for some time now about Right to Work states dumping the Union and views about the Union going sour. If EVER the Union had a time where they would benefit greatly by showing what Unions are all about and how BENEFICIAL it is to belong to a Union and what our dues are actually paying for.....IT WOULD BE NOW!!!! They have a lot to gain by coming through for us at this time, in this economy, with a company doing so well. They cave on this one and the Union will be in trouble in the future. What are they doing for us if they can't get us a good contract with a company making millions????? And it would also show people that it might be worth the hard work we do with a Union that actually works for it's members. Food for thought.

 

[Bagels]

I'd love to do an experiment and hire some of the nay sayers with no job and pay them 32 dollars an hour and see how long they last. Part time or full time, unless you've done this job you have no idea how hard it is to do this kind of physical labor for so many hours straight. Also I'm amazed at how many people I run into that either worked at UPS briefly or know someone who has and of course quit because they couldn't hack it. We might have more public sympathy then you think.

It doesn't matter, Asskicker. When UPS starts touting the driver's $100,000+ annual compensation package, the public isn't going to emphasize let alone sympathize. While I strongly believe that the Teamsters at UPS symbolize the necessity of unions for the long-term survival of the middle class, others won't see it that way. They'll see themselves barely equaling UPS drivers' pay, despite years floundering in school earning an M.B.A. Or they'll compare it to the $10/hour they make at Wamart after 10 years of service and they'll get angry. As far as us working hard... everybody perceives themselves as working harder than others, no matter the profession. And as far as the PTers... they'll be overshadowed by the drivers, who are UPS's consumer contact point anyway.

 

[Asskicker]

I agree with you, but as far as the drivers who are in the public eye...most of them have very good relationships with the companies they deal with on a daily basis. And most people will comment on the fact that they can't believe how hard they work. They are continually on the move and people are on our side too. Also UPS couldn't handle any sort of strike, much less one that would last more then a week or two. It would cripple them for a few weeks until they could recover. And I don't see them being able to hire replacement workers do you? We do have our own edge on the situation.

 

[Bagels]

People can perceive you as both a hard worker and also as being overpaid. As a driver and as a helper, I've encountered numerous situations in which people refused to help me / expected me to go out of my way with a package because of my compensation (though I'm actually earning a seasonal / helper rate).

UPS has the finances to handle a strike. The bigger question is if we could handle it -- a strike would undoubtedly see many shippers permanently change carriers, costing thousands of jobs; ultimately it could set the path for huge concessions from the Teamsters next contract (likely in four years). At first I thought Scott Davis was playing chicken, but now I think he's willing to endure a strike -- he may think he has nothing to lose even though both the Company and Union have plenty to lose if there's a strike.

 

[curiousbrain]

People can perceive you as both a hard worker and also as being overpaid. As a driver and as a helper, I've encountered numerous situations in which people refused to help me / expected me to go out of my way with a package because of my compensation (though I'm actually earning a seasonal / helper rate).

UPS has the finances to handle a strike. The bigger question is if we could handle it -- a strike would undoubtedly see many shippers permanently change carriers, costing thousands of jobs; ultimately it could set the path for huge concessions from the Teamsters next contract (likely in four years). At first I thought Scott Davis was playing chicken, but now I think he's willing to endure a strike -- he may think he has nothing to lose even though both the Company and Union have plenty to lose if there's a strike.

Brinkmanship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Catatonic]

I don't believe America is anti-corporation right now; people were incensed with executive compensation packages for a few months in the late 2000s and then they forgot about it.

In terms of public perception, unfortunately, UPS holds leverage over the Teamsters. UPS will tout to the public: "Over the past 10 years, the average UPS driver has earned, on average, an additional $30,000* in compensation, including $9 an hour in raises. UPS drivers pay nothing towards their health care costs, which are among the best of any profession in America. Meanwhile, our rates have climbed XXX. UPS will continue to take care of its workforce, but we don't think it's fair for you to continue paying for it." Given that most Americans earn less today, factoring in health care, than they did ten years ago, it will outrage many.

Also keep in mind that in 1997, the status quo Fox News didn't exist.

*calculated from $9/hour raise, an average of 45/hours per week & 70% increase in family health care premiums (national average)

Or motivate them to Unionize their workplace.

 

[menotyou]

Or motivate them to Unionize their workplace.

Unions are a good thing when used for the correct reasons.

 

[Brownslave688]

Or motivate them to Unionize their workplace.

Unions are a good thing when used for the correct reasons.

Non public unions are a good thing. Public workers are already a monopoly.