Houston we have a problem!

Broke

Well-Known Member
Hoffa was lying pure and simple. First time he'd ever heard of it? Gimme a break.
Next time he's on a call-in show, ask him how much Fred paid him off.
What I meat was it was the first Ed Schultz had heard of it. Just seems like Hoffa would've been trying to use all his resources to get it done.
 

Broke

Well-Known Member
Let's see. The new RLA rules require 50% of all employees in a class to sign cards before a vote can be forced. Most employees don't have a clue about organizing and they never see an outside agency(i.e. the Teamsters) outside their stations passing out cards and literature. The Teamsters won't even return calls or answer emails. And as R1a has pointed out any outside chance that a union can get in goes away when DRA is fully implemented. Which means time is short which, of course, is denied by some here. If you can get a union in then by all means do so. But all I see is chest thumping and name calling. WHY WOULD ANYONE TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY? Time is short and time spent here crowing instead of out there organizing is wasted time. Buy a clue for crying out loud!
I really didn't want to do this but I have to correct you on this. You are WRONG about 50% of cards needing to be signed to bring it to an election. It's only 35%.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
I really didn't want to do this but I have to correct you on this. You are WRONG about 50% of cards needing to be signed to bring it to an election. It's only 35%.

And I'm enjoying telling you that when the FAA bill was finally passed it was with the Express Employees Relief Act attachment removed, and with the agreement that it now takes 50% plus one of employees in a class to sign cards before a vote can be forced. Your Democrat leadership sold you out yet again.
 

MAKAVELI

Well-Known Member
I really didn't want to do this but I have to correct you on this. You are WRONG about 50% of cards needing to be signed to bring it to an election. It's only 35%.

And I'm enjoying telling you that when the FAA bill was finally passed it was with the Express Employees Relief Act attachment removed, and with the agreement that it now takes 50% plus one of employees in a class to sign cards before a vote can be forced. Your Democrat leadership sold you out yet again.
But now they only count votes cast. At worst it's give and take and 50 percent card signed only makes us stronger.
 

hypo hanna

Well-Known Member
Where have they been for years? And does it take their entire organization to negotiate a contract? Who's assigned to respond to phone calls?
Strange. You take the IBT to task for not being able to do two things at once at the same time you dis us for multitasking. Grass roots organizing and discussing FedEx matters here.vvvv
........ Time is short and time spent here crowing instead of out there organizing is wasted time. Buy a clue for crying out loud!
 

Broke

Well-Known Member
And I'm enjoying telling you that when the FAA bill was finally passed it was with the Express Employees Relief Act attachment removed, and with the agreement that it now takes 50% plus one of employees in a class to sign cards before a vote can be forced. Your Democrat leadership sold you out yet again.
I stand corrected, guess this zombie has been in his casket way too long. I still think its possible to organize. I'd bet well over 50% are unhappy with their pay and working conditions at Express.
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
I stand corrected, guess this zombie has been in his casket way too long. I still think its possible to organize. I'd bet well over 50% are unhappy with their pay and working conditions at Express.

I'd say closer to 90%.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Strange. You take the IBT to task for not being able to do two things at once at the same time you dis us for multitasking. Grass roots organizing and discussing FedEx matters here.vvvv

​The difference is one of the world's biggest unions should be able to multitask. And time IS short. Instead of constantly ragging on those who don't see everything 100% like he does he should be out, as should others who claim how much they want a union, doing everything possible to force a vote. The Obama administration made it possible to win a vote with a simple majority of those participating in the vote. But getting to that vote means getting over that huge mountain of obtaining tens of thousands of cards. And right now I'm betting 99% of our couriers don't know about this forum, or what it takes to unionize, and without the IBT making a concerted effort they aren't going to know.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
I really didn't want to do this but I have to correct you on this. You are WRONG about 50% of cards needing to be signed to bring it to an election. It's only 35%.

It has already been covered, but it is indeed 50% of all in craft needed to sign a representation card in order for a petition for a certification vote as of now under RLA rules.

It was one of those 'weird' outcomes of the negotiations in 2010. You are correct, previously it was 35% of craft needed to sign a representation card in order to petition for a vote - THEN 50%+1 of ALL IN CRAFT needed to vote 'yes' in order to actually certify was the operating rule.

Delta Airlines had a role in getting the language changed in order to prevent a petition from even getting off the ground. They actually got burned, since in previous certification votes, Delta execs told their employees that ' choosing not to vote equates to a 'no' vote for union' (in any certification election). Well, with the change in operating rules, if an employee choose not to vote in a certification election, they weren't counted in the proportion as being defaulted to a 'no' vote. Companies under RLA wanted the requirement that the election required 'yes' votes in the amount of 50%+1 of ALL in craft (in essence, counting those choosing not to cast a ballot as default no votes). Delta actually had a certification vote among its flight attendants (I think) that required Delta management to change their tactic and tell employees that didn't want to certify that they HAD to vote no - or else a union would've been voted in. I didn't follow the event closely, but the change in rules caused some problems for Delta.

The whole thing was one of those issues which were 'horse traded' in the negotiations; an increase in the percentage (35 to 50) to petition for a vote, but a change in how a majority is determined (soft majority instead of a hard majority) in a certification vote.

So with the way things are now, the signing of rep cards IS the actual vote for a union under RLA. Because that requires a HARD 50% majority. If that manages to get through the petition process and a certification vote is to be held, the requirement drops to 50% majority of those CHOOSING to vote in the certification election (soft majority) to get a union. Well, if a hard majority signs union rep cards - then it goes that the actual certification election would merely be a pro forma event - the outcome would already be pretty much determined.

This is why in the highly unlikely event that the Express Couriers ever do manage to pull off a drive to get a petition approved for a vote - that Express would fight tooth and nail to prevent the verification of signed union cards, then do everything in their power to prevent such a vote from occurring - but this is all merely speculation on something at this point in time which will, in all reality, never happen (from what I've seen on here in the past 4 years and especially in the past 4 weeks).
 

Broke

Well-Known Member
It has already been covered, but it is indeed 50% of all in craft needed to sign a representation card in order for a petition for a certification vote as of now under RLA rules.

It was one of those 'weird' outcomes of the negotiations in 2010. You are correct, previously it was 35% of craft needed to sign a representation card in order to petition for a vote - THEN 50%+1 of ALL IN CRAFT needed to vote 'yes' in order to actually certify was the operating rule.

Delta Airlines had a role in getting the language changed in order to prevent a petition from even getting off the ground. They actually got burned, since in previous certification votes, Delta execs told their employees that ' choosing not to vote equates to a 'no' vote for union' (in any certification election). Well, with the change in operating rules, if an employee choose not to vote in a certification election, they weren't counted in the proportion as being defaulted to a 'no' vote. Companies under RLA wanted the requirement that the election required 'yes' votes in the amount of 50%+1 of ALL in craft (in essence, counting those choosing not to cast a ballot as default no votes). Delta actually had a certification vote among its flight attendants (I think) that required Delta management to change their tactic and tell employees that didn't want to certify that they HAD to vote no - or else a union would've been voted in. I didn't follow the event closely, but the change in rules caused some problems for Delta.

The whole thing was one of those issues which were 'horse traded' in the negotiations; an increase in the percentage (35 to 50) to petition for a vote, but a change in how a majority is determined (soft majority instead of a hard majority) in a certification vote.

So with the way things are now, the signing of rep cards IS the actual vote for a union under RLA. Because that requires a HARD 50% majority. If that manages to get through the petition process and a certification vote is to be held, the requirement drops to 50% majority of those CHOOSING to vote in the certification election (soft majority) to get a union. Well, if a hard majority signs union rep cards - then it goes that the actual certification election would merely be a pro forma event - the outcome would already be pretty much determined.

This is why in the highly unlikely event that the Express Couriers ever do manage to pull off a drive to get a petition approved for a vote - that Express would fight tooth and nail to prevent the verification of signed union cards, then do everything in their power to prevent such a vote from occurring - but this is all merely speculation on something at this point in time which will, in all reality, never happen (from what I've seen on here in the past 4 years and especially in the past 4 weeks).
I've already admitted I was mistaken on this matter. It is indeed 50%. I still think its doable.
 

Route 66

Slapped Upside-da-Head Member
Here we go............again.

Losing sleep over something that's not really any of your business is quite a drag, eh?

Trust me on this - bbsam isn't walking around whistling zippity-doo-da "look how much better off I am than you sorry losers" in real life. If he were, he wouldn't be wasting so much time here.

Remember the one kid that would always show up at the playground kicking sand in all the other kids' faces and taunting them?...and bragging about how great his dad was, and all the wonderful crap he had in his awesome home?..and then one day someone found out that life in his household was actually very unhappy and his only relief was to constantly harass everyone else? Well that kid grew up to be a Ground contractor.

My heart goes out to him (a little bit) every time he delivers yet another one of his witty "how many cards today?" one liners. I know he'll deny this, but he knows he's not a happy guy.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Actually, I am confused more than anything. I say only what R1a has been saying. An observation that happens to be borne out by the facts. Whatever psychological profile you choose to attach to it is your own business, but why concentrate on that while it's obvious you need to be getting cards signed? That's the real business at hand.

And I wouldn't say that I am any kind of cheerleader for Ground. I just don't accept the gross and misleading generalizations made about it here. We are what we are. Unapologetically and with flaws but always striving forward for improvement.
 
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