I drink your milkshake! a metaphor for capitalism

[rickyb]

Actually they are on the rise. Truck driving is in demand more than ever and trying to find qualified, safe drivers is very difficult for companies these days. Even our seasonal hires, last I checked, are now making nearly $30/hr. The company was offering less, but people weren't applying.

well, they may be on the rise in the short term for truckers because baby boomers are retiring.

but wages as a whole in america are lower than they were at the peak in 1973. thats the trend.

 

[av8torntn]

I



Its safe to say automated tractors are coming regardless of wages. If the technology ever becomes good enough that a tractor can be sent on its own down the road without a human behind the wheel I see that as the death knell for the traditional tractor trailer driver. Even if its more expensive to purchase than a standard tractor it doesn't have hours of service to worry about, breaks, meal periods, wages, or benefits to be paid. When UPS can put a trailer on the road and have it across the nation in a day and a half or less because the truck doesn't need to stop except for fuel then there simply will be no way we can compete. On that note though I think it will be decades down the road before a Tractor can be let out on the open road by itself without human intervention. Most of us will be eligible for retirement by then.

The technology is here. It isn't decades away but I didn't mean to imply wages were the only driver for this.

There is another way to look at it though as it's possible automated tractors may just increase productivity and drive up wages assuming a driver is required to manage the systems much like a commercial pilot does with an aircraft.

 

[rickyb]

 

[brett636]

The technology is here. It isn't decades away but I didn't mean to imply wages were the only driver for this.

There is another way to look at it though as it's possible automated tractors may just increase productivity and drive up wages assuming a driver is required to manage the systems much like a commercial pilot does with an aircraft.

That is exactly what I expect the first few generations of self driving tractors to be where a human will be required to be behind the wheel incase something goes wrong. Otherwise what would be the point of the sleeper cab on that truck? Even in the article you linked too that automated tractor has some severe limitations, and only comes into its own when its on the highway. It still can't manage city traffic by itself or even change lanes on its own. For a company like UPS to purchase self driving tractors there would have to be a financial incentive for the company to do so. If it doesn't allow the company to keep us on the road longer, and or significantly reduce accidents I don't see us getting those for quite a long time. Not to mention the laws governing these trucks need to be updated before we will see them outside of the few states that are allowing them on their roads.

 

[av8torntn]

For a company like UPS to purchase self driving tractors there would have to be a financial incentive for the company to do so.

This is why large companies are already using pieces of this technology like the mapping software for fuel management.

 

[rickyb]

I read in a business book somewhere that an employee must produce between 3 and 4 times what they are being paid ( plus bennies, workmans comp, SS and everything else ) just for a business to break EVEN on having that employee.

so if you were a business owner, what would you pay yourself compared to your employees?

a raise in line with productivity would be ok.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=real...AUS_productivity_and_real_wages.jpg;2400;1536

 

[rickyb]

tom morello from rage against the machine comments on capitalism:

Morello said of wage slavery in America:
“ America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve. ”

— Tom Morello, Guitar World[93]

 

[rickyb]

george lucas also doesnt like capitalism. im not suprised because the wachowskis who did the matrix didnt like capitalism eitehr and the matrix had alot of marxian ideas in it. i also dont believe in capitalist democracy and i think they are incompatible.


ROSE: There's also the side of you that's a political animal. I mean, you are, among people who know you, a billionaire who's not that crazy about capitalism.

LUCAS: That's true. (LAUGH)

ROSE: Tell me about --

LUCAS: Well, I grew up in the '60s. I grew up in San Francisco. And so I'm informed in a certain kind of way about, you know, believing in democracy and believing in America. And I'm a very ardent patriot. But I'm also a very ardent believer in democracy, not capitalist democracy. And I do not believe that the rich should be able to buy the government. And that's just the way I feel.

 

[wkmac]

The contradictions of State Communism or State Marxism, as well as capitalism.

State capitalism would be a step forward as compared with the present state of affairs in our Soviet Republic. If in approximately six months’ time state capitalism became established in our Republic, this would be a great success and a sure guarantee that within a year socialism will have gained a permanently firm hold and will have become invincible in this country.

source: Lenin's Collected Works, Vol. 32, pages 329-365. Taken from pamphlet published in May 1921'.

The state capitalism, which is one of the principal aspects of the New Economic Policy, is, under Soviet power, a form of capitalism that is deliberately permitted and restricted by the working class. Our state capitalism differs essentially from the state capitalism in countries that have bourgeois governments in that the state with us is represented not by the bourgeoisie, but by the proletariat, who has succeeded in winning the full confidence of the peasantry.
Unfortunately, the introduction of state capitalism with us is not proceeding as quickly as we would like it. For example, so far we have not had a single important concession, and without foreign capital to help develop our economy, the latter’s quick rehabilitation is inconceivable.

Source: Lenin's Collected Works, Vol. 42, pages 425-427. Taken from NY Newspaper Rusky Golos, No. 2046, Jan. 1923'.

IMO, our own State Capitalism is not a milkshake but more like "I'll piss down your back and then tell you it's raining."

 

[Holydriver]

you came to my thread. YOU DONT LIKE, YOU DONT BUY!

said it before and ill say it again; if workers voted at their jobs would they vote:

-to pay the CEO 350x wat the lowest paid worker makes?
-to pay themselves a starvation wage (example: walmart workers)?
-to cut back on safety and harm themselves (especially like in china, but also in america)?
-to work in an environment they dont like?
-to pollute their own communities?
-to keep a boss or other co worker that a majority dont like?
-to over work or under work themselves?

the answer would often be "no".

democracy at work is an obvious extension of political democracy we already have. if u want to really live in a democratic society, it should apply to where you spend 40 hours a week...and democracy at work already exists in practice.

seems to me the employee already voted for all of the above. well, didnt really vote for it, but by apply for and accepting that job they agreed to those terms. if you want more out of life, go out and get the proper credentials to achieve more

 

[newfie]

im saying the workers themselves should vote on what they should be paid with what they produced each hour. and they should vote on what to do with the extra money, and vote on how to run our workplace. that would actually be democratic.

get the straws out of our milkshakes.

Are the workers risking their houses as collateral?

 

[newfie]

Perhaps you value your work at $34 per hour plus benefits and Fedex shows it can be done for $15 per hour and no benefits. Ain't capitalism great!

Technology can make it so.

 

[Sportello]

Technology can make it so.

Yes. In 20 years a robot will be doing the high paying part of your job (assuming you have a high paying job). Better prepare for it.

 

[BrownArmy]

Are the workers risking their houses as collateral?

What are the corporations risking?

Subsidies? Tax breaks?

Don't you wonder when corporations spend Millions lobbying, and then cry poor?

'Well, we didn't do very well this quarter, etc, so we need to cut wages, blah, blah'...

Meanwhile, the CEO got a fifty percent pay rise, the share price went up, investors were happy...(pay and benefits for workers got cut, the company downsized, et.al).

There's this fantasy among the 'right' that hard work will allow you to pull your bootstraps up, but that's not real for Citizens. But, buying government (lobbying, donating to candidates, - - -) is all you really need to make it as a Corporation.

In this case, corporations are the welfare queens, and the common Man (or Woman), just doesn't stand a chance.

But, yah, you just need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

Lulz.

 

[newfie]

What are the corporations risking?

Subsidies? Tax breaks?

Don't you wonder when corporations spend Millions lobbying, and then cry poor?

'Well, we didn't do very well this quarter, etc, so we need to cut wages, blah, blah'...

Meanwhile, the CEO got a fifty percent pay rise, the share price went up, investors were happy...(pay and benefits for workers got cut, the company downsized, et.al).

There's this fantasy among the 'right' that hard work will allow you to pull your bootstraps up, but that's not real for Citizens. But, buying government (lobbying, donating to candidates, - - -) is all you really need to make it as a Corporation.

In this case, corporations are the welfare queens, and the common Man (or Woman), just doesn't stand a chance.

But, yah, you just need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

Lulz.

That fantasy happens every day

 

[BrownArmy]

That fantasy happens every day

It really doesn't, but enjoy the fantasy.

 

[rickyb]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/689568094432329730

kings message and legacy has been watered down.

 

[newfie]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/689568094432329730

kings message and legacy has been watered down.

there are many who bemoaned the system while benefiting from the same. King had his moments too.

 

[rickyb]

there are many who bemoaned the system while benefiting from the same. King had his moments too.

benefiting from the system and criticizing it at the same time doesnt make you a hypocite because its the system.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

benefiting from the system and criticizing it at the same time doesnt make you a hypocite because its the system.

Using your "logic", whining about your elected officials yet not bothering to vote would not make you a hypocrite. Isn't that right, KMart?