I hit a dog today

[Re-Raise]

To an extent, I agree. As drivers we must be held to a higher standard and we must continually strive to avoid accidents.

The problem is this. As a management person with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight and from behind the safety and comfort of a desk, you will always be able to second-guess any action that I did or do not take and you will always be able to fabricate a reason why a particular accident may have been theoretically "avoidable" on my part.

You speak of the "credibility" of the process. The process has no credibility when we "charge" a driver with an "avoidable" accident for hitting a dog running loose on a public road. The process has no credibility when we "charge" a driver with an "avoidable" accident when he is legally parked and away from the vehicle and another motorist hits the package car. The process has no credibility when we "charge" a driver with an "avoidable" accident for scratching a package car in the AM when the decision has been made to park the cars so close as to be touching one another due to building overcrowding.

You have every right to place high expectations upon us. But you do not have the right to expect us to take those expectations seriously when they are ridiculous, arbitrary, and totally divorced from reality.

The reality of the current system....is that those who are charged with determining the "avoidabliity" of a given accident are often less concerned with finding the truth and more concerned with simply generating paperwork in order to justify and perpetuate their own jobs.

I have to tell you, I completely agree with every post you make.

Your experiences at UPS and your perception of them are exactly the same as mine.

 

[browned out]

I take it you were driving down the street and not on the dog owners property? I've never heard of an avoidable accident for hitting a dog on a public road or street. Only had a co-worker get an avoidable for running over a dog on the dog owners property. Are you saying you've had possibly 4 avoidables in possibly 7 years? If so, i'd say you don't have much at all to worry about. I had a co-worker get fired for 3 avoidables in a 9 month period, but that's way worse than your record. We tried to tell him he needed glasses, but no, he wasn't listening to anybody.

I was on a three day ride and a dog ran out in front of the truck on a pretty much desolate street. I stopped and my 3 day sup told me and I quote. " You better run that dog over" I was shocked

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I was on a three day ride and a dog ran out in front of the truck on a pretty much desolate street. I stopped and my 3 day sup told me and I quote. " You better run that dog over" I was shocked

You did the right thing. If you can safely avoid hitting an animal then you should. This may sound cold, but I value human life far more than any animal, so if it came down to hitting another vehicle or plowing Fido I would plow Fido.

You should have asked him if he would have felt the same had you been in front of his house, with his kids outside, and it was his dog in the road.

 

[browned out]

The real question is this: Would you rather hit the dog, or swerve wildly, risking the chance of losing control of the PC, and doing some real damage? I made my mind up long ago that unless it was a human, I would not swerve or slam on the brakes. The dog needs to be on a leash, and out of the roadway.

Fight this crap. You should have a union steward for any meeting that could lead to disciplinary action. Unavoidable for sure. They will use this against you if you let it stand and have a legitimate at fault accident.

We had a similar situation and asked our center manager how he would feel if a plane hit our center( as we are close to the airport ) and he did not get all our employees out in time and if he should be deemed at fault. expect the unexpected you idiot

Fight it

 

[iruhnman630]

The avoidable ruling has been reversed to unavoidable!

enough said.

 

[soberups]

The avoidable ruling has been reversed to unavoidable!

enough said.

I am glad that you will not be charged with the accident.

What is truly pathetic, however...is that it took your management team two weeks of reports and conference calls and discussions and "safety commitee" meetings to determine something that anybody with an ounce of common sense could have figured out in, say, two minutes.

If I were a shareholder at UPS I would be flat out pissed at the time and money and energy that was wasted on such drivel.

Imagine how much smoother things would run if your management team had applied the same amount of effort and resources into improving the dispatch...or upgrading the equipment and facility that you work at...or creating more accurate loop detail or time studies.

We cant compete with FedEx until we first figure out how to get the hell out of our own way.

 

[stucrew]

Residential street, dog bolted out to chase the car. By the time I hit the brakes, he was already under my rear wheels.

I know there was nothing I could've done to stop in time, given how quickly he ran out. But I'm not real optimistic my managers are going to agree. Avoidable number 4 in ?? 7 ?? years. Nothing serious, and the only real accident I had was a young driver slid and bumped my truck in the snow. Fault was no question in that one, but it was still avoidable.

Basically, I'm screwed. And I didn't help myself any when I couldn't rattle off the key phrases to the five seeing habits.

You don't have to "rattle off the Key Phrases" If your center manager charges you with an avoidable accident for a DOG then GRIEVE IT. I can't imagine a center manager wanting to have his center charged for an accident over a dog. But, If he is that big of an A@@ then GRIEVE IT. Leash Laws have always been the criterior for not being responsible. I tell you what I will do if a dog accident gets upheld........When a dog comes around my truck I will stop and MSG the center that I am sitting till they come get the dog out of the way. UPS gets away with so much crap because we let them.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

You don't have to "rattle off the Key Phrases" If your center manager charges you with an avoidable accident for a DOG then GRIEVE IT. I can't imagine a center manager wanting to have his center charged for an accident over a dog. But, If he is that big of an A@@ then GRIEVE IT. Leash Laws have always been the criterior for not being responsible. I tell you what I will do if a dog accident gets upheld........When a dog comes around my truck I will stop and MSG the center that I am sitting till they come get the dog out of the way. UPS gets away with so much crap because we let them.

Yet another pearl of wisdom for the "Advice Not To Follow" file.

 

[stucrew]

Now why would you say that, ****? Our rule of thumb is 3 avoidables in a 9 month period before you are sent packing.

It's not a "rule of thumb" it is a CONTRACT PROTECTION.

 

[stucrew]

Tell them at the meeting tomorrow that if you ever see a dog running near your package car and you can't ascertain the exact path he may choose to take, that you will stop the vehicle, call the center and have them come to the scene and have them direct you how to proceed safely.

I would say it and........ I would fng mean it... I would shut it down and call in every time a dog ran near my truck.

Absolutely!!! We have got to give them back their own STUPIDITY!!

 

[stucrew]

I'm really wondering what I could have done to make them agree this was unavoidable. During my safety ride today, I never went above 15 mph in the resi neighborhoods, and I began to wonder if we're expected to treat each driveway as an intersection now, since telematics showing that I was travelling below the speed limit just wasn't enough.

Treat every time you come out of a driveway as a stop sign.

 

[stucrew]

Most divisions or Districts have a person with the job title of "Safety Manager" who is usually in charge of determining which accidents are "avoidable" and how they should be handled.

The more "avoidable" accidents there are, the more paperwork there is for this person to shuffle. He/she can keep busy by writing reports, taking pictures, and holding conference calls and meetings with lots of important people.

If there arent any avoidable accidents....then that supply of reports and pictures dries up, and this person doesnt get to have any meetings or make any conference calls. Pretty soon, all those important people will start to wonder why the hell they are paying this person $75K per year just to take up space in an office.

RULE #1 for any bureaucracy or corporate entity is to perpetuate its own existence. If your job as a management person is to solve problems then you had better make damn sure you have a never-ending supply of problems to solve, or you will manage yourself right out of a job.

So the trick here is to solve just enough problems to make yourself look successful...while at the same time inventing enough problems to make yourself look indespensible. Charging drivers with "avoidable" accidents for hitting dogs on a public road is a perfect example of the "job justification through paperwork generation" mentality that is slowly destroying our company.

Very true. These idiots don't really care as long as the money comes out of someone elses budget. Just like throwing car parts in a dumpster when the audit team is due because they aren't supposed to warehouse parts. Remind you of anyone?? Perhaps, BANKRUPT CARMAKERS??

 

[stucrew]

one day, i ran over a cat on a residential street while being followed by a cop. I stopped to inspect the carcus as did the cop. The feline vic had an address on it's collar and the cop suggested that i bring it to the owner and offer restitution or write me up for speeding....we went to the owner's home with dead cat in hand. An attractive lady open her door only to see her mangled feline. I didn't know what to say except "i'm sorry and offer her a $50 bill to bury and or purchase a new companion. She accepted...you wouldn't believe what happened next...the cop arrested the lady cat owner......i suddenly protested to the leo, "what are you arresting her for ? The cop snap back at me, "i'm arresting her for selling her pusillanimous"...

lol, rofl, roflmaso

 

[stucrew]

Is that the safety committee that is made up of his little pets? Good luck with that...

Ours is made up of pets and the people with the worst accident history. Only a couple out of 6 or 7 are there because they should be. And get this the 2 worst are the co-chairs and they are being paid to come in before their scheduled start times and work safety and then go home early after about 4 hours. Talk about Pets. I am thinking maybe these positions need to be Bid.

 

[stucrew]

Is being charged with an avoidable accident a disciplinary meeting? I was told it was not, so there was no steward in meeting.

I had an "avoidable" last week and had a sit down with two sups, CHSP driver, and center manager. Hit while parked /backed into, this after speaking with the person who hit me and I wasn't even in the vehicle. Parked safely on right side of road, hazards on, wheels slightly off road. Didn't know the area well so I asked him where the apartment in question was. He said one of two buildings so I was on my way so I thought.

It was deemed avoidable because I didn't back first, turnaround and block in the vehicle. However I didn't back first because it was presumably a dead-end, with lots of parked cars in the spaces ahead. The guy I talked to in passing was leaving and I was going to do a drivers side back in the space he was taking instead of getting caught in a less optimal back/turnaround unknown mess further up.

There was no liability on my part, the guy just backed right up and hit my vehicle and admitted to it. I wasn't even aware of what happened making the delivery until I jumped in the truck, did my back, and was msging ctr about a NDA. The guy drove back to the scene and admitted to it.

Is this a discipline measure (avoidable, unavoidable) and should it be grieved?

You have a right to a Steward any time you reasonably comtemplate discipline and whenever they decide to give discipline. They have to stop everything until a Steward is present. Don't talk to mgt. about anything controversial affecting your job or performance unless a steward is present these days because they want to discipline about anything. We gotta make it hard on them and maybe they will stop wasting our time.

 

[stucrew]

I am glad that you will not be charged with the accident.

"What is truly pathetic, however...is that it took your management team two weeks of reports and conference calls and discussions and "safety commitee" meetings to determine something that anybody with an ounce of common sense could have figured out in, say, two minutes.

If I were a shareholder at UPS I would be flat out pissed at the time and money and energy that was wasted on such drivel.

Imagine how much smoother things would run if your management team had applied the same amount of effort and resources into improving the dispatch...or upgrading the equipment and facility that you work at...or creating more accurate loop detail or time studies."

Yea, but. Since they really don't know how to dispatch, or create a good loop, or God Forbid make a FAIR timestudy, Then these little stupid things give them something to do that makes them feel they are working for the company good.

 

[stucrew]

Yet another pearl of wisdom for the "Advice Not To Follow" file.

So what is wrong with my advice? They want to make our every action the wrong one if something bad happens. Give it back to them and make them make the decisions. If they then instruct you to proceed and you hit the dog, you were working as instructed.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

So what is wrong with my advice? They want to make our every action the wrong one if something bad happens. Give it back to them and make them make the decisions. If they then instruct you to proceed and you hit the dog, you were working as instructed.

So what is wrong with my advice? They want to make our every action the wrong one if something bad happens. Give it back to them and make them make the decisions. If they then instruct you to proceed and you hit the dog, you were working as instructed.

This is what is wrong with it:

When a dog comes around my truck I will stop and MSG the center that I am sitting till they come get the dog out of the way. UPS gets away with so much crap because we let them.

 

[stucrew]

I had a 3 day ride a week ago and I knew the dog always chases my car. I told the sup that I wouldn't drive in there until a ruling throws out their position. So we walke 150 yards to the house and 150 yards back. Needless to say, the 3 day ride didn't go well for them. Ever been 166 over with a sup on the truck!?? GIVE IT BACK TO THEM!!! and Get our Dignity Back!!!!

 

[stucrew]

This is what is wrong with it:

When a dog comes around my truck I will stop and MSG the center that I am sitting till they come get the dog out of the way. UPS gets away with so much crap because we let them.

You must be a Sup. All you have stated is what I said. Tell me what is wrong with my logic, not just some head-on-backwards company type worker is always wrong but we can't really defend why B.S.