I want a career not a job!

Discussion in 'FedEx Discussions' started by Billy_Baconhead, Jun 10, 2012.

  1. As I sit here and think to myself how to better prepare myself with a real career. I can't help but, think what is the best routine?

    Now, let me give you a little background about myself. I've only been with the company for 7yrs. Therefore, I'm not near top scale pay. In which makes me less of a "target" for the changes already in process at express. Though, we ALL have targets on our backs but, some just have bigger targets (great quote by a fellow board member/friend). With that said my job is a little more secure then a topped out older employee.

    I do understand the challenges in today's economy. Though, I am a single male with no children so, I can take risks. I do have a degree in Business Management. Now, I've been thinking of becoming a police officer. I won't get rich choosing to become a police officer but, I would have a solid career.

    I was thinking of using FedEx tuition reimbursement program to pick up a 2 yr criminal justice degree. In which I could complete this program in about 1 year considering I've got credits I could transfer.

    Lastly, I was thinking. Do I go into Management at FedEx while doing so. I've probably turned a few heads with that statement! Let me attempt to explain this madness. Firstly, I'm a double agent. I play the "game" with management to the best of my ability. My good friend teaches me very well! You're still asking yourself "why the hell would he go into management?". It's actually a very simple decision .

    The process in becoming a officer is rather long. Lots of city budget cuts doesn't help either. I recon it may take 2-3yrs to achieve this position. In the mean time Express will still be trimming costs. At this point I would assume they'd be "cutting" management. I could potentially receive some sort of buyout. Even if I wasn't offered a buyout. I just gained management experience (good chance I would like to move up in the police "ranks"), made additional 25,000 a year (make around 35k FT atm).

    This about sums it up for the time being. I would appreciate thoughts? Recommendations?
  2. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    First off, since you already have a 4-year degree, you cannot use tuition reimbursement for anything that isn't DIRECTLY related to Express operational need (another 4-year program or shorter). Criminal Justice may be what a few Express employees face eventually, but Express security doesn't really need a CJ degree. So that is pretty much out unless you can really tap dance around your Sr. Manager and convince them otherwise.

    As for being a cop - if it is something you've wanted to do all your life, then pursue it. Most don't have a clue what law enforcement actually does - they get into it, are faced with the grind of doing the job and are out within 4 years. It all depends on where you do the job. If you are stuck in some inner city chasing crackheads - you'll burn out quickly and be back to looking for yet another career. If you are in a rural area, you'll hang around. Problem is, ALL the cops know what are the best spots and worst, so new cops are more often than not stuck chasing crackheads.

    As far as having a degree - it doesn't do much good in this economy unless it is from a prestigious institution and you performed some form of internship. If you received it more than a couple of years ago and it is from a state school, then you aren't really ahead of anyone.

    There are 20,000,000 un and under employed right now. The economy needs to create 250,000 jobs each and every month just to keep up with population growth. The economy has only been producing about 125,000 jobs a month on average (it shed millions of jobs in late 2008 and all through 2009). It will take SEVEN YEARS of 6% annual growth in the economy, producing 500,000 jobs a month (even the 90's didn't see this kind of growth) to take up all the slack in the labor market (all those 20,000,000 un and under employed). You are competing with people with MBAs for potential jobs in business management right now - unless you have some sort of inside track or are willing to work a very low paying (under $25k/yr) position, you aren't going anywhere.

    About the only thing you have going for you is that you are an employee of Express (you have an inside track there). You are eligible to apply for salaried positions as an internal hire (you have a leg up on those MBAs out there). The problem here is that Express is getting ready to do some significant downsizing in the next few months - you'll be competing with all those current Express salaried employees looking to transfer to positions which aren't being eliminated.

    Buyouts are only going to be offered to VERY long tenured salaried employees. Positions which will be filled in the coming months won't be bought out - especially for employees which have less than 20 years in.

    My recommendation would be to get Express to pay for getting your Class A CDL (they CAN'T deny you payment for that). With this in hand, you could move into a RTD position (they won't be touched in the downsizing), or move to other employment using your 7 years with Express as work history in operating a step van (you'll be ahead of everyone with CDL in hand but no experience in actually driving a vehicle in a commercial environment). Once you are out of Express, then you can make progress on whatever you want. In a couple of years, having 2 years of experience in some company will put you on an inside track there - enabling you to use that 4-year degree to get out of the drivers seat and into something you really want.
  3. Thanks for the reply R1a. You bring up some good points. I thought about being a cop due to the job security. Plus a feeling of self fulfillment giving back to the community. Now, I do a good friend whom became a cop in a rural area. Every time I see him he always has a great story about his job. I recall the last one about the 2 methlabs they busted inside of 2 weeks. Plus he's always making jokes about how every girl in the "picture" perfect town is pregnant! So, if I decide to pursue being a cop. No matter where you go you will always deal with "scum"!

    Anyhow, back to the point. Can you explain some more details on why getting my CDL would be a good move? Becoming a full-time RTD is impossible with my seniority. Plus those jobs are very seldom( I look at jcats every thursday evening).

    As I think about the upcoming buyouts more. I do feel you are correct that buying out more senior managers would be top priority. I'd assume the new/newer managers would be offered different management positions elsewhere. I'm sure if that manager turned down a position elsewhere. Fedex will say you volunteered to terminated your employment and will get no compensation.

    The real question is how fast is this ship going to sink? I vision express as a overnight company only. I feel the same way most of you do in regards to the shift over to ground. Though, how long will the ponzi scheme last at ground is another question to ponder.

    I don't want to get to off beat here. I've just been brain storming a lot the past few months about my future. I don't want to ride the ship to the depths of the sea. I want to jump ship while I still stand a fighting chance.
  4. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    You would be building on an existing skill set - the operation of a commercial vehicle. There is demand out there for people with a CDL, possessing one gives you the ability to compete for those jobs. A CDL in combination with the 7 years you have spent as a Courier would put you slightly ahead of other applicants (who just possess a CDL and no driving experience whatsoever) for these jobs. In this economy, you are literally competing with 9 other applicants for each and every job opening you apply for, you need something that places you solidly ahead of those 9 other applicants as much as possible AND opens up more positions which you can apply for in the first place.

    RTD positions don't open up too often, BUT if you have your CDL, you would be able to apply. If a RTD position did happen to open up at your nearby ramp in a few months and you didn't have your CDL in hand, you'd be kicking yourself for not getting it. You need to have as many qualifications as you can possibly muster in this economy to enable yourself to jump on opportunity as it presents itself.

    When FedEx does downsizing or reorganizing and eliminates a salaried position, they inevitably offer some form of "buyout". I'd have to check on unemployment law, but I'm nearly certain that when an employee accepts a "buyout", they are not considered to have been involuntarily let go (laid off), so FedEx doesn't get hit when it comes to paying for unemployment claims.

    From everything I'm hearing, FedEx is looking to get rid of all Couriers that are past about half progression and replace them with entry level Couriers (no need for experience with D-ROADS) and trimming salaried staff positions to bring that overhead within Express down to levels that are more in keeping with expectation of future volumes. The details of how they are to accomplish that are obviously still not known. Express is also looking at gradually phasing out the full-time Courier in anticipation of Express shifting delivery of non-overnight volume over to Ground.

    As far as to "how fast is this ship going to sink", it all depends on what your definition of sinking is. For many, when opportunities for OT are eliminated and they are faced with only getting 40 hours a week (or marginally more), the ship will have already lost its luster and is sinking. When Express Saver is eliminated, total hours will naturally decline by about 10% or so (most of that decline will be in OT hours on the delivery side).

    When D-ROADS is fully implemented in all stations this fall, supposedly this will allow near "perfect" planning of route volumes, enabling no OT to occur at all within loops with the exception of a single Courier.

    Another part of what I'm hearing (I've already written about this) is that Express will open up the "hiring spigot" this autumn, bringing in a large number of part-time Couriers to operate all those vacant routes that now exist. They want to wait until D-ROADS is perfected, because they don't want to train them in "traditional" methods of getting volume off. One bit of information I'm trying to get is whether the curriculum for Courier training will radically alter in the coming months - altered to train Couriers SOLELY for operations under D-ROADS.

    Is Express going to involuntarily dump Couriers? No, they don't want the unemployment claims and potential litigation for age discrimination.

    Is Express going to slowly alter its operational practices in the next 2 to 3 years to encourage all high progression Couriers to leave of their own accord? I'd have to answer yes.

    The second part of the two part strategy of FedEx to reduce costs at Express is to radically reduce labor costs - this isn't confined to eliminating positions, it includes dumping "highly compensated" Couriers (whose skill set at delivering with traditional methods will no longer be needed) and replacing them with part-timer Couriers that rely on technology to get the volume off (and who would be helpless if the technology were to happen to fail).

    The question you have to ask yourself is, "How long can I hang around the "21st Century" Express and still live and work the way I want to live?" If you are fine with working with a 3 hour or so split shift every day at your current compensation level (don't count on any real post inflation progression in pay with what is going to happen - just won't happen), then you could hang on almost indefinitely. If you don't want to put in a 11 hour day and only get paid for just over 8, then you'd better start looking now and be out the door at Express within 2 years.

    This brings up another issue - pay progression. There hasn't been any real progression (increase above the rate of inflation) in compensation at Express for wage employees since March 2008 - excepting those beyond 50% of progression this past year, the reasons have already been discussed. FedEx wants Express to look more like Ground when it comes to cost structure, this means that "drivers" will be compensated at their "max" more or less the first day they operate a truck.

    If a new hire Courier (under D-ROADS) can hit max productivity within a couple months of working, why in the hell would FedEx want to jump their pay by 50% over a period of time? That would defeat the purpose of obtaining the technology. If that person got burned out after a couple of years and wanted to either get paid more or quit - the FedEx solution would be for that person to quit and pull yet another body off the street and stick them into the driver's seat.

    With the ISP model being brought into Ground, I don't see some federal court slapping FedEx with a finding of misclassification of employees and ordering compensation in the billions of dollars to be paid - just don't see it. The drivers of Ground are misclassified, but it is all dependent on how the attorneys do the dance of setting up companies and making sure each company operates within the letter of the law, if completely outside the intent of the law. So don't expect some massive set back for FedEx, just won't happen without some massive changes in existing law.

    If you (and all the other low progression full time Couriers) start to make plans for future career outside of Express - NOW, you'll be better off for it and prepared to leave on your terms. If you wait until you are putting in the 11 hour day and only getting pay for just over 8, you will be in a corner. How will you look for another job when you are putting in those kind of hours - try to squeeze an interview in during that extended break?

    Waiting until you are absolutely miserable until you start to look for another job (or start to train for another job) is a mistake. No one needs that kind of stress in their life. Realizing that things are changing for the worse with your current employer and making plans for an eventual departure will make leaving much easier.

    If FedEx had any real "people first" philosophy, they would've announced the intended direction of Express and encouraged the full-time Couriers to start looking for opportunities elsewhere. In the real world, if Express had done this, the full-time Couriers wouldn't have started looking for other employment opportunities, they would've unionized to keep their jobs (just what Express has wanted to avoid for years). Thus you have the reason for the gradual unveiling of the master plan.

    So rather than looking at things as "how long will it take the ship to sink", you should ask yourself, "How long will it take me to find another job". In this economy, it could take well over a year of serious looking. I don't know of too many people on a sinking ship asking themselves, "Should I wait to get on a life boat, or should I get on the first one that I possibly can?" Those that do ask themselves this question usually end up in real trouble...

    If you know the ship is sinking, start looking for a lifeboat now, you don't want to "milk it out" for too long, you could end up swimming with just a life vest on - just not worth the risk.
  5. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    That's just it, very few know it's sinking. Have told a handful at my station, which should get the word out. Have gotten some angry looks, shaking of heads. As newgirl mentioned, the boiling frog effect. If it's not happening right away most will discount it as alarmist paranoia.

    The part-time hiring you mentioned. Will that take place before a buyout offer? Seems they'd want to announce a buyout and clear out as many as possible first. Reason I'm asking is I'm considering a JCATS opening that would put me closer to family. If I knew that they're going to announce a buyout for this Fall I'd pass on it. But if this thing were to drag out 2 more years might as well make the move.
  6. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    1. No indication on the timing of anything beyond that the fact that a decision has been made to do it. No public announcement has been made regarding the personnel side of the reorganization plan - for obvious reasons.

    2. They don't want to "clear people out" without having replacements trained and ready to take the place of Couriers that are hitting the door. I would anticipate seeing the hiring spigot opened up PRIOR ot any buyouts/early retirements being announced. They wouldn't want to give the Couriers any leverage in creating personnel shortages.

    3. There would be no reason to assume that a Courier that recently transferred to a position would be rendered ineligible for a potential early retirement or buyout. Staying in place would get you nothing. Since you are just under mid-progression, at this point I'd have to assume you'd be ineligible for a buyout - but that is speculation since no hard numbers for eligilibility have been announced. Since you are 10 years away from retirement, I'd have to assume you're too far away from 60 to get an early retirement option. Hell, no buyout or early retirement option has been PUBLICALLY announced at this point. They want to clear out high progression Couriers and those that are close to retirement age but not quite there yet - you don't fall under either of those categories.

    My advice, apply for the transfer. You wouldn't be affected by the reorganization for at least 2 years. There is still too much uncertainty to try to outguess FedEx as to exact timing of what they will unveil and when. They only real "cost" to consider is moving cost at this point.
  7. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    I suspect you're right. I'm hoping it comes down to age plus years of service. Might qualify for something if that's the criteria. I was thinking they'd want to see how many people would actually want to take a buyout before hiring. The buyout might happen after Peak or next fiscal year. Just speculating but I was thinking the mgrs buyout didn't have them leaving right away. There's been mention of the October Investor Relations meeting where specifics would be likely to be spelled out. One thing to consider, they might be off the hook for a Portable Pension annual payment if they had people take a buyout before next June.
  8. Roughrider

    Roughrider New Member

    Quick question..

    As a lower-level FT employee with just over 8 years of service and barely making above a new-hire in pay, shouldn't I consider management quickly in order to get some leverage for future job opportunities either within the company or in a new field of work? I don't have a college degree, and I would think if all this goes down in a few years, I would be in a better position for a management job somewhere else if I had even a few years as a manager under my belt at Fedex. Fedex as a company is still extremely respected in the workforce....at least I would assume that is the case still.

    I have completed all the ASPIRE training and could apply for jobs today if I wanted to. I have a family and little kids to provide for, and I am the sole income. Knowing what the future holds, I'm trying to get a grasp on my options and what is best for me to do now with no degree and only real work experience has been with Fedex.

  9. thedownhillEXPRESS

    thedownhillEXPRESS Well-Known Member

    Fedex mangement on your resume would without a doubt ( at least in this point in time ), be an asset to your resume.
    Just understand, with the significant changes coming down the pipe, that management will be sent into shock soon also ( relocation,pay adjustments, much more scrutiny to perform etc).
    If you can handle being sent halfway across the country as a worst case scenario, then I say go for it.
  10. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    Absolutely. When I first hired into FedEx that was my intention. I obviously learned that the Express that I hired into wasn't the Federal Express that my friends told me about, that that is another story. One should always look for opportunities for personal growth, just don't let the allure of "growth" blind one to the actions of the employer for which they are attempting to do that growth within...

    Express is still a respected employer... It is amazing what some good PR can do.

    Gathering experience is always good. However, Express is looking to downsize right now. There aren't going to be many management positions open up in the next couple of years. There will obviously be positions in "BFE" open up, but unless you are completely committed to making Express a career, you'd probably best be served in making an exit plan right now and sticking to it.

    If you have completed all of the ASPIRE training, you are grandfathered for about two years I think (you have 2 years to get accepted into a management position, or you'll have to go through the new training program which just started). The likelihood of those who have completed ASPIRE being accepted into management positions within the next couple of years is rather slim (and yes, I think they deliberately timed the phasing out of ASPIRE to coincide with what is going on now - they want as clean of a slate as they can get).

    Since you don't have a degree (and are obviously interested in moving into a white collar position), I'd have to recommend that you get your degree under your belt FIRST. I can tell you, in this market, trying to get a white collar job without a degree is next to if not completely impossible. Even if you did get into Express management, without a degree, you'd be STUCK with Express (and stuck in frontline management, you couldn't move into a staff position without a degree). No employer is going to hire someone off the street to enter into a management position without having that box checked (4-year degree box). You can put all the flowery language in the world on your resume, without having a degree listed at the top of your resume, it will end up in the "NO" pile.
  11. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    As a further note, I knew some Express managers who didn't have their degree. They were hampered by not having the "holistic" training that a 4-year program provides, so they were inevitably in over their heads when it came to the tasks of managing their portion of the operation. In addition, once someone is accepted into Express management without a degree, very rarely do they have the time or inclination to go through the process of getting a 4-year degree - especially if they are married with kids. It is virtually impossible to balance the requirements of the job with going to any school with the exception of the for profit "universities".

    A 4-year degree is a requirement for any white collar position now, so much so that it is taken for granted by employers that qualified applicants will possess one. Right now the problem is that there are so many qualified applicants applying for every job opening, that employers are looking at something past a 4-year degree to make a hiring decision. In many cases, they are looking for professional post-graduate education to make a hiring decision.

    If you are looking to get out of Express, don't get trapped into accepting a management position WITHOUT first having a 4-year degree completed. If you do so, your ability to exit Express on terms you'd accept will be virtually nil. I honestly think Express sees this as a plus for them (bringing people into management who DO NOT possess a degree) - they know their options to leave are nil - and therefore they are more easily controlled by Express.
  12. Roughrider

    Roughrider New Member

    Thanks for the response. What is "BFE" you mentioned? Sorry, even after 8 years I still don't have all the Fedex acronyms down.

    Also, you mentioned management positions might be slim with the downsizing. Is there a chance that Fedex could also offer a buyout or retirement plan of sorts to the "higher paid" OPS managers in hopes of thinning their numbers down as well? If that were to happen, I would think that might increase the chance of an ASPIRE candidate being able to land a job. After all, I would be starting at the bottom of the manager pay scale and the bottom line $$$ is all Fedex is concerned with.
  13. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    Sorry... old Express humor. BFE is located in the vicinity of Egypt, and involves having ones "bum" violated...

    Don't see that happening. With all the changes they are going to bring in, they are going to need experienced managers to pull it off. The cost savings involves trimming non-management salaried staff and getting rid of high progression Couriers. I don't think they will be looking at purging their existing management staff - just too damn risky to do something like that in the midst of a reorganization.
  14. Roughrider

    Roughrider New Member

    Well, getting my degree would definitely be a step I will need to take at some point. However, without going into my financial details of my family, its fair to say that with the upcoming changes in a few weeks.....my income will likely take a pretty big hit and will continue to do so as a FT courier over the next year or two. That will definitely be difficult to manage family-wise financially, so not sure that the ability will be there to immediately finish up my degree. That is for two reasons: The cost of school, as well as the time involved to finish (since strictly online schools are a waste and ridiculously expensive).

    No telling what the next 1-2 years holds, but chances are with a reduction of hours I will have to possibly find a 2nd job just to make ends meet....thereby restricting my available time for school.
  15. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    Many times in life, if one wants to take two steps forward, they have to begin by taking a single step back.

    Many FT employees are going to look at taking a 2nd job. But there is that little portion in your employee handbook which states something to the effect that: "All outside employment by full-time employees is to be supplementary in nature and cannot conflict with the needs of Express employment."

    What are you going to tell your potential 2nd employer if you are called in to cover a Saturday route?

    What are you going to tell your potential 2nd employer during peak, when you aren't available for about 2 weeks?

    This is the Catch-22 that FT employees at Express face. In addition, the same restrictions apply for any schooling you may be attempting to do - it cannot conflict with Express scheduling.

    My recommendation to any Express employee is to go to part-time status and knock out their educational goals - I did just that to knock out my Masters before leaving. It will involve some financial hardship, but Express cannot jerk you around with scheduling changes and drafts to cover routes as a part-time employee. As a full-time employee, they own you.
  16. Goldilocks

    Goldilocks Well-Known Member

    FYI, I have seen many new managers coming in with " A DEGREE" a they melted. The BEST managers I have worked with are the people who paid their dues and worked from the bottom up. They learned every aspect of the company. Just because you can present a good power point presentation in an interview and nail an interview, does NOT and WILL make you a good Fedex Manager. A Degree is NOT required but experience is. The best advice I can give you is to learn your bosses jobs. Learn how to run the front counter, learn the SAL job, learn the sort and reload, get in the cans and learn how to T Stack, Learn the Pscan and to set up the guns. MOST IMPORTANT learn how to approach people. They can make you or break you. You never know when you may have to fill in because of a sick call. Start from the bottom and work your way up. As a 27 year employee, I thank God everyday that we have a job!
  17. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    No one ever stated that a degree ensures success, it just tends to minimize failure. The worst managers I worked under while at Express didn't have a degree. They were of the opinion that since it took them over 10 years to enter management, so it should take everyone else at least as long to do so. Wrong...

    The second worse group of managers at Express were those who had a degree, but were younger than about 32 - they didn't have the maturity to deal with people and not let their ego get in the way of running an operation smoothly.

    A person with their "head on their shoulders" only needs about 4 years of hands on experience and that academic training to go along with it, to have the intellectual tools to handle Express frontline management.

    I knew many employees who knew the details of the operations as you put forth (knowing all procedures, all of the computer skills, cross training, etc), that went absolutely NO WHERE in Express. They didn't have the requisite intellectual skills to manage dealing with the issues that were BEYOND the moving of packages. Believe it or not, there is a skill set which management possesses which isn't "learned" in knowing all the intricacies of moving a package from point A to point B (Gawd I hate sticking up for Express management...).

    So is an individual supposed to bash their head in, working for a company attempting to move up and spend over 10 years in an attempt to move into management without a degree? Or is that individual better served by following conventional wisdom and obtaining a degree in a field which holds interest for them and advancing using that skill set?

    I knew many employees who put in over 20 years with Express (Ramp Agents and Couriers), that once they left, had to start ALL OVER again in learning new skills (they didn't possess any post secondary education), since the very narrow skill set they used with Express wasn't applicable outside of Express.

    So "Goldilocks", as a 27 year employee who bleeds purple profusely, I sincerely hope your time at Express has been well spent. For everyone that has far less time with Express, they are NOT best served attempting to learn everything at Express and placing their faith in their employer - the Express of a few years from now will not resemble the Federal Express you joined back in the 80s. I learned the hard way in my first year of Express, that having all the OJT in the world (a completed training sheet over 2 pages long) didn't mean a damn thing when it came to getting pay progression.

    No, spending one's efforts learning everything they can about Express operations ISN'T the best path to success - it is obtaining post secondary education or vocational training which can be put to use with a VARIETY of employers - who invariably compensate at levels more than Express does (at least for those who have less than 15 years in).

    As far as thanking God for having a job, would you be so thankful if you were a 7 year employee that was only about a dollar an hour above entry level wage, with an absolute joke of a pension plan going for you (no DBPP going back over 20 years...) and looking in a couple of years at being reduced to either part-time status or working with an insane split shift as routine?

    Take your bunk over to the Brown Bailout website. You can kiss up on Fred's boots over there and maybe get a $50 BZ bonus for your efforts.
  18. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    I think Goldilocks makes a good point. In the last 7 years had a couple of ops mgrs with no courier experience. One was college grad hired off street, other was former CSA. Neither had a clue what we did on the road, college grad had no sense of urgency, CSA thought if she got angry enough over the slightest things we'd hop to it. And I don't blame a 27 yr employee for being thankful for a job. He's had it reasonably good for many of those years. I'm much more bothered by those who think mid-range employees should just accept their lot and be happy with it. Or those that can't seem to handle a difference of opinion without getting vicious about it. Makes you wonder what kind of mgr THEY would've been...
  19. Ricochet1a

    Ricochet1a New Member

    Do you perhaps refer to those who happened to realize a short time after they hired into Express that it was a raw deal and looked to get the hell out for better pastures...

    They ended up making excellent leaders of organizations that were wise enough to snag them... and were compensated for their decision making ability, decisiveness and ability to recognize what are honest variations in opinion and what is outright horse crap...
  20. Goldilocks

    Goldilocks Well-Known Member

    WOW, Are you a disgruntal employee or what. Yes, Employees in any company that work their way up the ladder are better than the ones who come in with a POWERPOINT PRESENTAION and a Diploma. Please, we are in the trucking industry. Just because you have a degree means nothing. You must gain EXPERIENCE FIRST. Thats with anything you do in life. Are you a Manager? Or are you one that sits back and talks about the new managers wishing you would have made that move to become one? Get real... Along with Experience you must also GAIN RESPECT from your employees. Like I said before, they can make you or break you. Yes, I am a 27 year employee and my Husband is a 28 year employee and we are thankful for having a job. If you dont like what you do, then I know Burger King is hiring. Why complain? Do your job and go home, if not go find another job. JMO..... As far as the 7 year employees, I have lots of friends in that situation. We all had to do it. Do you expect Fred to bring you money on a silver platter and wipe your butt too? Go find another job and weather out the storm. I raised 3 daughters on my income. I did it....