Internal processes for handling employee concerns where you work. Effective?

[dilligaf]

dilligaf,

Well, I can certainly take the answer to my question as yes you have courage.

I admire courage in people.

I did not mean to imply that you were hopeless or that you were copping out. As I read it now it obviously seemed that way. Please forgive me for not choosing my words more carefully.

I am very very sorry for this.

Based upon what you have said and your courage, I would want you on my team any day.

Sincerely,
I

In many ways it is hopelessness that many have. Hopelessness of ever being able to change the system. Hopelessness of every feeling like you can be trusted, appreciated or even heard. Especially to those that have been there for a long period of time and remember how things used to be. I haven't been there long enough to know the ways of the past. ALL I have ever known is what we currently have. Numbers are not people. Numbers are an imaginary friend that UPS has concocted in the name of the share holder and profits. Hopelessness runs rampant among the employees and to the benefit of UPS.

 

[Catatonic]

In many ways it is hopelessness that many have. Hopelessness of ever being able to change the system. Hopelessness of every feeling like you can be trusted, appreciated or even heard. Especially to those that have been there for a long period of time and remember how things used to be. I haven't been there long enough to know the ways of the past. ALL I have ever known is what we currently have. Numbers are not people. Numbers are an imaginary friend that UPS has concocted in the name of the share holder and profits. Hopelessness runs rampant among the employees and to the benefit of UPS.

Numbers at UPS are not a recent phenomena. Numbers have been an integral part of the UPS way since Jim Casey brought George D. Smith on board at UPS in the 20's at which time he formed and headed the eventual Industrial Engineering group. I've been here over 38 years and numbers have been the basis of management.
I remember from very early on the adage, "If you cannot measure it, you cannot manage it."

Now, with that clarification out of the way, the old time culture at UPS was that is was a People's company. That may appear to many to not be the case anymore.

Hopelessness is something I have not experienced or observed myself.

When you speak of hopelessness, what is that in relation too?

 

[dannyboy]

Integ

Might I add this to my earlier comment?

In many organizations, UPS being one, the fact that there is a written process in place to address work place issues is more than sufficent. That it actually might be used to do something or report problems was never actually the plan. Only that the people in power can point to the written policy and therefor are now enlightened and covered, when anyone asks.

Like keter and the safety process, it has become a poster issue. See, we have it. It might not be worth the paper it is written on, but we have a process and programs in place to show we are serious about it.

If I might one more example.

I know this guy who likes to pass himself off as a christian person. Carries a tattered bible on the dash of the truck. But he never bothers to open it and read it. Its for show only. And his life and actions speak much louder than any proclimation or bible on the dash. But yet he feels good about his being able to show the bible off to anyone that asks.

d

 

[steward71]

dilligaf,

Well said.

Here is a link to an interesting article regarding internal whistleblowing: Encouraging Internal Whistleblowing in Organizations

I think large corporations are particularly skilled in the barriers to internal whistleblowing.

I do disagree with the solution and the hopelessness that you express. It is not going to take everybody to stand up. That my friend is a cop-out to those who are feeling like they want to stand up.

I do think that it is going to take concerted, unified action, but it definitely does't have to be everybody. Just those with courage.

Do you have the courage?

Sincerely,
I

you come here wanting everyone to tell story of the unjust of UPS, why don't you please explain to us what you have done personally to stop some of the things you like to talk about. instead of wanting to seem like some kind of hero here and wanting to give imput please tell us what you have done inside of UPS not here to help someone with the issues you speak of.

 

[cachsux]

Numbers at UPS are not a recent phenomena. Numbers have been an integral part of the UPS way since Jim Casey brought George D. Smith on board at UPS in the 20's at which time he formed and headed the eventual Industrial Engineering group. I've been here over 38 years and numbers have been the basis of management.
I remember from very early on the adage, "If you cannot measure it, you cannot manage it."

Now, with that clarification out of the way, the old time culture at UPS was that is was a People's company. That may appear to many to not be the case anymore.

MAY?

Hopelessness is something I have not experienced or observed myself.

When you speak of hopelessness, what is that in relation too?

Only 26 here Hoax but I remember when the goal was to get every package through our building every night or else, hell or high water. Now, I joke but not much, that it`s like the beginning of the Flintstones. The pterodactyl honks and everyone takes of running. Packages left where they fall. Just get off the clock so the numbers look good.
Everything is fractured and compartmentalized to the point that individual groups within the same division ,Feeder in my case, will stab the back of the group on either side of the as long as they take care of themselves. I witnessed it first hand last night by a manager I have worked for for years and had tons of respect for. And you know what ,it was the final straw for me. But in my case it is good. Any anxiety I had towards helping the company get to its goals washed out of me. I`ve finally accepted that the UPS I knew is gone and now I just make sure I don`t kill anyone, or myself, while I work and then go home. Check cleared this morning so all is good.

 

[dilligaf]

Numbers at UPS are not a recent phenomena. Numbers have been an integral part of the UPS way since Jim Casey brought George D. Smith on board at UPS in the 20's at which time he formed and headed the eventual Industrial Engineering group. I've been here over 38 years and numbers have been the basis of management.
I remember from very early on the adage, "If you cannot measure it, you cannot manage it."

Now, with that clarification out of the way, the old time culture at UPS was that is was a People's company. That may appear to many to not be the case anymore.

Hopelessness is something I have not experienced or observed myself.

When you speak of hopelessness, what is that in relation too?

I know Hoax. Numbers are always vital and integral part of any company. They have to be but it doesn't mean that they can replace the people that work for said company. I'm not necessarily talking about UPS either.


With all due respect, you are not at the bottom of the totem pole either. Shiat rolls downhill. At the top all looks rosy and shiny but when you are at my end of things and you see a mgr/sup sitting behind a desk stuffing 10 lbs of crap into a 5 lb sack......................... well let's say what goes in smelling like crap comes out smelling like crap.

Hopelessness................ I suppose in relation to the general economy, in the general ability to be able to perform our jobs in a timely manner and looking forward to being able to get off at a decent hour. Our trucks are being stuffed to the gills, and we see no end in sight. It only gets worse. Mgt says, "it's light today but we kept all the rtes in so you can get done early". They are so magnanimous in their gesture but in reality, the loads suck, preload is being pushed harder and faster, the trucks aren't any lighter, stop counts aren't down on these day. And then we hear rumors (mentioned elsewhere) of our rte's being cut back from 14 to 9 after the 1st. I'm not sure how that fits in your vision but in ours it doesn't work. 9 rtes to 8 zip codes isn't logical especially when two of those zip codes are communities of more than 11,000 each (2009). You could probably bump that to more than 15,000 now.

And then factor in mgt's willingness to use any tactic available (harassment) to get their numbers down to an acceptable corporate standard. A corporate standard that has taken the human equation out of the system and expected us to become robots that have no problem working long hours because we don't have a life. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. We are people. We need to be treated like people with respect and dignity.

Hopelessness? Ya hopelessness. The system is failing. Management is failing in its task, not where money is concerned but where people are concerned. I recently watched Undercover Boss for the first time. It was the Hooters episode. You should watch it. Maybe that will give you an idea of where I'm coming from. There was one particular manager that the CEO should have thrown out on the spot.

 

[Catatonic]

Only 26 here Hoax but I remember when the goal was to get every package through our building every night or else, hell or high water. Now, I joke but not much, that it`s like the beginning of the Flintstones. The pterodactyl honks and everyone takes of running. Packages left where they fall. Just get off the clock so the numbers look good.
Everything is fractured and compartmentalized to the point that individual groups within the same division ,Feeder in my case, will stab the back of the group on either side of the as long as they take care of themselves. I witnessed it first hand last night by a manager I have worked for for years and had tons of respect for. And you know what ,it was the final straw for me. But in my case it is good. Any anxiety I had towards helping the company get to its goals washed out of me. I`ve finally accepted that the UPS I knew is gone and now I just make sure I don`t kill anyone, or myself, while I work and then go home. Check cleared this morning so all is good.

Interesting that you used the term compartmentalized as I use it often to describe the survival tactics that one uses to work in a large corporation where staffing has been reduced (doing more with less) without actually changing the processes surrounding an area of responsibility.
My management will not accept this as an eventuality even though they are surrounded by the reality of this emerging culture.

I find in intriguing that two people arrived at this same observation in two different geographical area, union versus non-union work environments, industrial versus intellectual property work environments, etc.
Maybe we could write up white papers and become consultants.

 

[steward71]

I know Hoax. Numbers are always vital and integral part of any company. They have to be but it doesn't mean that they can replace the people that work for said company. I'm not necessarily talking about UPS either.

you are so right in what you are saying. i hace been walked to the door so many times i have count for being a steward and pointing out what is wrong and they very same people i defend will not come foward to help so this is why i just do job and go home and keep my trap shut.


With all due respect, you are not at the bottom of the totem pole either. Shiat rolls downhill. At the top all looks rosy and shiny but when you are at my end of things and you see a mgr/sup sitting behind a desk stuffing 10 lbs of crap into a 5 lb sack......................... well let's say what goes in smelling like crap comes out smelling like crap.

Hopelessness................ I suppose in relation to the general economy, in the general ability to be able to perform our jobs in a timely manner and looking forward to being able to get off at a decent hour. Our trucks are being stuffed to the gills, and we see no end in sight. It only gets worse. Mgt says, "it's light today but we kept all the rtes in so you can get done early". They are so magnanimous in their gesture but in reality, the loads suck, preload is being pushed harder and faster, the trucks aren't any lighter, stop counts aren't down on these day. And then we hear rumors (mentioned elsewhere) of our rte's being cut back from 14 to 9 after the 1st. I'm not sure how that fits in your vision but in ours it doesn't work. 9 rtes to 8 zip codes isn't logical especially when two of those zip codes are communities of more than 11,000 each (2009). You could probably bump that to more than 15,000 now.

And then factor in mgt's willingness to use any tactic available (harassment) to get their numbers down to an acceptable corporate standard. A corporate standard that has taken the human equation out of the system and expected us to become robots that have no problem working long hours because we don't have a life. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. We are people. We need to be treated like people with respect and dignity.

Hopelessness? Ya hopelessness. The system is failing. Management is failing in its task, not where money is concerned but where people are concerned. I recently watched Undercover Boss for the first time. It was the Hooters episode. You should watch it. Maybe that will give you an idea of where I'm coming from. There was one particular manager that the CEO should have thrown out on the spot.

 

[steward71]

you are right with every word

 

[dilligaf]

You can't even begin to understand what my week has been like. I have my own responsibility in what happened this past week but my OR believes that the responsibility should be placed solely on my shoulders. He is in for a rude awakening. He has his responsibility too and I aim to make sure that he accepts that responsibility. It will happen in one way or another. He has accused me of stealing time and unprofessional conduct. His conduct was unprofessional but what recourse do I have. The grievance procedure? Quite often that is a joke and I expect nothing less than my grievance to be thrown out. If my BA had any sense at all he would let this go to panel but like my last grievance that went to NLRB it'll be thrown out. I have learned over the years to pick my battles wisely. This is one of them. It is far from cut and dry, the original incident is not a case of blatant abuse or violation of laws. Nope, it's not that simple. He is subtle in his abuses. And it's not the first time that it has happened.


We have far to many drivers that won't stand up for their rights. They won't rock the boat and on many occasions I won't either but he lied again and this time I won't let it go. His continued abuses during the week were nothing more than retaliation. He should've a quit while he was ahead.

 

[cachsux]

Interesting that you used the term compartmentalized as I use it often to describe the survival tactics that one uses to work in a large corporation where staffing has been reduced (doing more with less) without actually changing the processes surrounding an area of responsibility.
My management will not accept this as an eventuality even though they are surrounded by the reality of this emerging culture.

I find in intriguing that two people arrived at this same observation in two different geographical area, union versus non-union work environments, industrial versus intellectual property work environments, etc.
Maybe we could write up white papers and become consultants.

I could see that.............................

Hoax: My associate and I have forensically analyzed the weaknesses that are preventing UPS from reaching it`s potential. Mr. Cach, the details please.

Cach: You guys need to pull your head out of your ass.

Hoax: Uh......and thank for your time. Does anyone have a cardboard box I could borrow to clean out my desk?

 

[Catatonic]

I could see that.............................

Hoax: My associate and I have forensically analyzed the weaknesses that are preventing UPS from reaching it`s potential. Mr. Cach, the details please.

Cach: You guys need to pull your head out of your ass.

Hoax: Uh......and thank for your time. Does anyone have a cardboard box I could borrow to clean out my desk?

Interesting and yet sorrowful at the same time.

 

[Returntosender]

IMO The help line is inplace to cover the company's gluteus maximus from some sort of negligence lawsuit.

 

[menotyou]

IMO The help line is inplace to cover the company's gluteus maximus from some sort of negligence lawsuit.

It can be used to prove you have repeatedly tried to report harassment and nothing was done, no matter how much the claim they investigated and found nothing. If you keep notebooks and regularly report, it will add up to a lawsuit.

 

[Integrity]

IMO The help line is inplace to cover the company's gluteus maximus from some sort of negligence lawsuit.

Returntosender,

This can't be true.

Generally speaking you can not sue your employer for negligence.

Sincerely,
I

 

[Returntosender]

Returntosender,

This can't be true.

Generally speaking you can not sue your employer for negligence.

Sincerely,
I

I think you should use google. The following is what I found. Will it work agianst UPS? I don't know. I would like the reelected Hoffa to try them aginst UPS.

negligent hiring is a claim made by an injured party against an employer based on the theory that the employer knew or should have known about the employee's background which, if known, indicates a dangerous or untrustworthy character. Pre-employment background checks, employee drug testing, and employment physical exams are some of the ways negligent hiring claims can be avoided.

Capitan I were you short pay on payday?

Negligent supervision is a tort that may apply in various contexts such as supervision of employees, children, or adults. Negligent supervision is a variant of the common law tort of negligence, therefore breach of duty is proven in the same way as other negligence cases. In some instances it is described as whether a reasonable person could have foreseen that injuries of the type suffered would likely occur under the circumstances.

Capitan I Supervisor every instructed you to do an unsafe act at work?

negligent retention Typically, these suits have alleged that the employer failed to accurately check references, criminal records, or general background information that could have shown the employee's likelihood for criminal or tortious behavior. In other cases, employers have been sued because they failed to dismiss or reassign employees after they found out that the employee was a potentially violent or abusive person.

 

[Integrity]

I think you should use google. The following is what I found. Will it work agianst UPS? I don't know. I would like the reelected Hoffa to try them aginst UPS.

negligent hiring is a claim made by an injured party against an employer based on the theory that the employer knew or should have known about the employee's background which, if known, indicates a dangerous or untrustworthy character. Pre-employment background checks, employee drug testing, and employment physical exams are some of the ways negligent hiring claims can be avoided.

Capitan I were you short pay on payday?

Negligent supervision is a tort that may apply in various contexts such as supervision of employees, children, or adults. Negligent supervision is a variant of the common law tort of negligence, therefore breach of duty is proven in the same way as other negligence cases. In some instances it is described as whether a reasonable person could have foreseen that injuries of the type suffered would likely occur under the circumstances.

Capitan I Supervisor every instructed you to do an unsafe act at work?

negligent retention Typically, these suits have alleged that the employer failed to accurately check references, criminal records, or general background information that could have shown the employee's likelihood for criminal or tortious behavior. In other cases, employers have been sued because they failed to dismiss or reassign employees after they found out that the employee was a potentially violent or abusive person.

Returntosender,

Great information, can you give me some cases and docket #s? I would like to review any that you might have come across.

Thanks, I really appreciate your effort.

Honestly, I have never heard of these 3 types of negligence.

Sincerely,
I

 

[hellfire]

I think you should use google. The following is what I found. Will it work agianst UPS? I don't know. I would like the reelected Hoffa to try them aginst UPS.

negligent hiring is a claim made by an injured party against an employer based on the theory that the employer knew or should have known about the employee's background which, if known, indicates a dangerous or untrustworthy character. Pre-employment background checks, employee drug testing, and employment physical exams are some of the ways negligent hiring claims can be avoided.

Capitan I were you short pay on payday?

Negligent supervision is a tort that may apply in various contexts such as supervision of employees, children, or adults. Negligent supervision is a variant of the common law tort of negligence, therefore breach of duty is proven in the same way as other negligence cases. In some instances it is described as whether a reasonable person could have foreseen that injuries of the type suffered would likely occur under the circumstances.

Capitan I Supervisor every instructed you to do an unsafe act at work?

negligent retention Typically, these suits have alleged that the employer failed to accurately check references, criminal records, or general background information that could have shown the employee's likelihood for criminal or tortious behavior. In other cases, employers have been sued because they failed to dismiss or reassign employees after they found out that the employee was a potentially violent or abusive person.

please dont feed the troll