Iraq

A

Anonymous Susie

Guest
Hey Moreluck,

How's the stock doing for you?
I sold @83.50. Capital gains are a bite, but not as bad as a $20/share drop.

I guess I'm not welcome here because I have a way of finding out too much about some of the posters here. I think tie was especially nervous, LOL
 

DS

Fenderbender
susie...do you play yahoo poker?
If so my SO was your opponent.
small world? or another susiedriver?
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I don't play poker, and my yahoo name is not susiedriver. Must be someone else.

What made you think Double Standard was talking to you? I don't see it so maybe I'm missing something. Fill me in!

Anonymous Susie posted: Hey Moreluck,

How's the stock doing for you?
I sold @83.50. Capital gains are a bite, but not as bad as a $20/share drop.

I guess I'm not welcome here because I have a way of finding out too much about some of the posters here. I think tie was especially nervous, LOL

Double Standard replied: susie...do you play yahoo poker?
If so my SO was your opponent.
small world? or another susiedriver?
 
A

Anonymous Poster

Guest
What made you think Double Standard was talking to you? I don't see it so maybe I'm missing something. Fill me in!


Really mac, you don't know why I thought DS was talking to me? Put on your thinking cap!
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
THE PRICE OF SACRIFICE

Simply Eloquent

Cindy Sheehan asked President Bush,
"Why did my son have to die
in Iraq?"
A mother asked President Kennedy,
"Why did my son have to die
in VietNam?"
A mother asked President Truman,
"Why did my son have to die
in Korea?
A mother asked President friend.D. Roosevelt,
"Why did my son have to die
at Iwo Jima?"
A mother asked President W. Wilson,
"Why did my son have to die on the
battlefield of France?"
Yet another mother asked Pres ident Lincoln,
"Why did my son have to die
at Gettysburg?"
And yet another mother asked President G. Washington,
"Why did my son have to die
near Valley Forge?"

Long, long ago, a mother asked, "Heavenly Father,
why did my Son have to die on a cross
outside of Jerusalem?"
The answers to all these are similar --
"that others may have life and dwell in peace, happiness and freedom.
"This was emailed to me with no author and I thought the magnitude
and the simplicity were awesome ...

IF YOU DON'T STAND BEHIND OUR TROOPS, PLEASE,
FEEL FREE TO STAND IN FRONT OF THEM.

Amen !!!
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
So Casey Sheehan = Jesus Christ, and therefore we should support the war in Iraq or be shot by our own troops?

I am really missing something here :lol:
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I just happen to be reading a larger article on the 1st Gulf War on Wikipedia (I was actually looking for some other source data that wasn't in the article) but I thought the section on Pre-War Iraq/US relations was very interesting. What made it even more eye catching was a couple of names that were mentioned in relation to Iraq and the goings on back in the 1980's. You may choose to read the entire piece and that's fine but here's a link to the specific section that I found interesting.

Gulf War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
It may be getting worse.

Iraqis call for five-man junta to end the anarchy - Newspaper Edition - Times Online

Saddam several months ago made the statement that before all was said and done that he would be welcomed back with open arms to run Iraq once again. At the time he was laughed at but as things move forward and the picture from all accounts become clearer, it's ironic that maybe he was more correct than people gave him credit for. It may just take some form of dictatorial hand to keep things in line over there after all.

JMO.
 

any122

adirondack man
THE answer on how to clean up the mess in IRAQ.Bomb IRAN BOMB BOMB BOMB!IF we don't Isreal will gurenteed.This will happen before Bush leaves office.My prediction.I know some think we should wait until the terrorist set a nuke off in one of are major citys.Sad but this may be what it takes to wake america up.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Somehow, I think that bombing even more countries is not going to solve our current problems. It sounds almost like an alcoholic who keeps drinking to help him forget his drinking problem, which, now that that I think about it, seems rather an appropriate metaphor for the current administration.

Judging by the most recent election results, America is finally starting to wake up, so you can stop waiting for "the terrorist set a nuke off in one of are major citys".
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Somehow, I think that bombing even more countries is not going to solve our current problems. It sounds almost like an alcoholic who keeps drinking to help him forget his drinking problem, which, now that that I think about it, seems rather an appropriate metaphor for the current administration.

Judging by the most recent election results, America is finally starting to wake up, so you can stop waiting for "the terrorist set a nuke off in one of are major citys".

Jones,
Pretty good comparison. I noticed yesterday that the adminstration had decided because of the vast divide between Shia' and Sunni that unification is probably out the window. U.S. rethinking Iraqi unification goal - Yahoo! News The hatred between these 2 groups would make the rift between catholics and protestents look like a argument between 2 school kids on the playground and it's been that way for 100's and 100's of years. Longer than the so-call divide between christians.

As for the election results, I'm not so sure about that just yet. As the election cycle began to heat up about a year ago we heard a lot of tough talk about everything from full tilt immediate withdrawal to impeachment of the President and even the Vice President. Oddly enough, an indictment has been drafted aka an op-ed piece. Indicting Bush - by Elizabeth de la Vega and Tom Engelhardt However, since the election, the top democrat party leaders have not only publically stated any impeachment is off the table but it also seems the drive towards immediate withdrawal is quickly cooling off as well. Things in Washington change as fast as the political winds but this seems the direction for now.

You know it's funny that most of these same democrats clamoured into line to vote for the war and backed it and in some cases even championed it's cause and the actual war itself was a piece of cake. In that respect and some will hate to hear this but Bush was right when he said "Mission Accomplished!" That part was in fact accomplished, the war itself. What has utterly failed however is the more tenative process of occupation and democraization of a society and culture who's very internal processes are devoid of such concepts for 1000's of years. Personally I think the failures date back to post WW1 and the breaking and dividing of the old Ottoman empire by the Brits and the French. Horrible job IMO and we seem to be following the same stupid course of action.

Now some may consider some of my remarks above as anti-culturalist and even racist to some degree in that they may think I'm implying they are incapable of democracy. You are assuming I believe that democracy is the only option for any and all people. On the contary, I believe they themselves should decide and if they want another democracy or Saddam back then so be it. Who am I to tell them how to live! They've had their own systems of governance for a very long time and if they want to continue that process, then fine by me. The blunt truth is we are only interested in order to maintain open pathways to feed our drug like energy addiction. Take the oil out of play and we'd have as much interest in this region as we seem to show right now in some of the areas of Africa that are boiling over in gross acts of human tragedy.

Except for a few democrats who are attempting to hold some of their radical anti-war base in check, most democrats are talking about ramping up manpower in Iraq to qwell the violence over there. Many are hoping the likes of the Baker/Hamilton combine can bail them all out (dems and repubs) of the quicksand that we find ourselves in.

For gov't, War is it's greatest hour in which gov't can advance itself and don't kid yourself for one moment that these elected officials don't love what "in the name of war and defence" they can get away with that under peacetime conditions would never be tolerated. And wartime measures rarely if ever get repealed once the war is over. The annuls of law are loaded with such examples but the one closest to home for all is the 1942' Victory Tax Act. This was the beginning of what we have today as the federal withholding of income taxes and prior to this event, the majority of Americans paid no federal income tax. The act was designed as a temporary measure but look at your paycheck and tell me just how temporary it was? Even the British who imposed an income tax during the Napoleonic Wars repealed them after 6 years as the need and demand of the people caused it so. In our case, since WW2, we've remained in a permament state of war thus maintaining the need so to speak. In 1939' FDR's defense budget was just under $2 bil dollars but 3 years later in Jan. 42' it jumped to $50 bil. Why such a huge jump? Hint! Lend/Lease is a good start.

Do not kid yourself at all as War is truly govt's finest hour and they thrive on it. Although this piece was written in 1918' I believe it still holds it's place today for needful consideration.
Part 1 of the unfinished essay: "The State" - Antiwar.com

Lastly, on America's own war history, excepts from a book on the subject IMO worth consideration.
A Century of War - Mises Institute

Have a good weekend Jones!
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
And on the issue of nukes. Is it possible that some terrorist could conduct some kind of nuke terrorist act on American society? Oh yeah, no argument from me on that but let's look at what happens if it does.

Let's say some terrorist faction does introduce a nuke device into American society. So what is the response? I'll bet you dollars to donuts that the vast majority and I mean vast majority would scream, demand, support and likely get a very swift nuclear response on responsible or connected parties. If say for example that a member of Hezbollah which is linked to State backing by both Syria and Iran and is a mostly Shia' group (you can't type she-ite because the profanity monitor kills it) were to be behind such an act, what would the american people demand? Look above at any122's post and he/she got it dead on the money except for one little detail. The bomb or likely bombs would be in the form of a huge mushroom cloud and these other groups know this.

It's not to say that in some case they (the terrorsit)wouldn't do it but I think it would be as result of them facing a no-win scenario so "let's take em' with us as we go" mentality. The leadership of these groups aren't suicidial as many of their bottomline shock troops are trained to be, pawns of a sick mind IMO, but who's to say what they do if backed into a corner.

What happens to President Nutjob of North Korea if he decides to pop one on the west? Goodbye North Korea! Remember, the US is the only country in the history of man to use such a destructive weapon and we did it twice and the world is oh so fearful that we will do it again. And guess what? They are absolutely right. You can bet your last dollar that if something of this magnitude ever happens on US soil, somebody is gonna glow for it!

And under the right conditions don't for one minute think that Mecca on it's most high holy day with gazillions of pilgrims on hand would be safe if the right conditions existed. It may seem cold and aweful to think of Americans in this light but I'll leave you with these famous words to consider that point of what Americans will do when pushed to the limit.

"I fear that we have awakened a sleeping giant
and filled him with a terrible resolve
Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
Empire of JapanDecember 7th, 1941


Ask Yamamoto how that resolve manifested itself in August of 1945'? BTW: That was democrats who did that and it was their greatest President who brought this thing into being so that Truman would have that option! Never forget that.

BTW Any122: Israel is not without it's own warts. It's own birth in 1948' was as much from acts of terrorism as anything else. Consider just one event of many from July 1946'
King David Hotel bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Goes to show that what starts as acts of terror yesterday comes into today as revered and in some sense Godlike! What will history say of Atta and WTC on 9/11 100 years from now? Scary thought is it not!

Also an interesting timeline from 1980' forward concerning US/Iraq relations.
U.S. Diplomatic and Commercial Relationships with Iraq, 1980 - 2 August 1990
 

tieguy

Banned
its time to start preparations to end the Iraqi war. We should start by carpet bombing faluj with nukes while simultaneously offering the leaderhsip of the insurgency the chance to negotiate a peacefull settlement to the war. No settlement more nukes. The problem with wars is we trying to fight them in a humane fashion. Its an oxymoron of policy to do so.
 
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