IT Layoffs

TechGrrl

Space Cadet
Re: IT Layoffs-Insight into Management

What a timely article in the August 17th issue of Business Week:

We're Overled and Undermanaged

Here's some key paragraphs which I think are particularly relevant to this thread:
"Unfortunately, detached leaders tend to be more concerned with impressing outsiders than managing within. A case in point: downsizing—decreeing the firing of thousands while ignoring the effect on morale. A robust company is not a collection of leftover "human resources." It's a community of engaged human beings.

Until this past year, when things collapsed, most downsizing took place at profitable companies that didn't happen to meet Wall Street's expectations. How could legions of employees suddenly be "redundant," as if they weren't needed in the first place? Where is the judgment—the wisdom to balance the financial community's demands with the company's long-term needs? And what was left after such leaders departed with their bonuses? All too often, out the door with fired employees went the heart and soul of a business.

American enterprise, so admired around the globe, was not built by currently fashionable "heroic" leadership but with leaders tangibly engaged in managing—and without today's bonuses, I might add."

Not sure who the CIO and CEO are trying to impress by giving the keys to the kingdom to IBM and Accenture. But turning over key facets of the business to outsiders simply demonstrates that the CIO, CEO, and the rest of the Management Committee simply lack the skills to manage this part of the business effectively. My observations over the years is that the operations managers have never understood what IT does, or how it needs to be managed for best effect. IE and the Beancounters in particular never 'got' the fact that you can't manage IT like a feeder operation. So the Management Committee was ripe for the BS that IBM and Accenture were selling. The CIO, who should know better, is really a beancounter, so he went along.

If the decree had come down to cut the 10% least performing members of the organization, and then hunkering down to keep working with a smaller workforce until the economy turned around and new hiring could take place, I would have no problem with this. And, you know what, if that were explained up front, I would venture to guess that the rest of the workgroup would accept and understand the business reality. In general, the peers of the poor performers know who they are, because they have to cover for them every day. I know that when I had to make someone 'available to the marketplace', their peers would often come up and say, "thank you".

But even 'poor performers' are deserving of being treated with dignity and respect. Some people are simply square pegs in round holes. Finding them a square hole may work. Some people don't fit at UPS; it's not for the faint of heart. And some people just aren't competent, but it shouldn't have taken 20+ years to figure that out.
 

brwn2thebone

New Member
I sort of wish it would just be over. The morale is down, rumors are flying, very unproductive environment at that. I wish those who left all the best, who knows, I could be next. I don't think all people were LE's. And right, it is not over, too many people out this week to let it all come down at once. Some one had it as a tag line on their account, and I agree 100%, I wish we were still a private company.

Oh, and - LOL about getting to take an ERI this year. I really doubt that we will even be asked to take one.
 

rumorCentral

Just a Rumor
Rumor I heard today is NW, everyone in Louisville should know him, has a big stock stake in Accenture. So him wanting to push work their way would mean ....$$$$

Just a rumor
 

TechGrrl

Space Cadet
Rumor I heard today is NW, everyone in Louisville should know him, has a big stock stake in Accenture. So him wanting to push work their way would mean ....$$$$

Just a rumor


That is just a rumor. And not a particularly good one, either.

Even if NW had 10,000 shares of Accenture stock, just how big a bump do you think Accenture stock would get from taking over (pick a number) 400 UPS jobs? ACN is trading at around $36.35 today. If he owned 10,000 shares, that's $363,000 in value. If the UPS contract bumped ACN stock 10%, NW gains (briefly) $36,850. And to realize that gain,he would need to sell his stock. Assuming that all the stock he owned had been purchased at a price of $36.35 If he had purchased it at the 52-week high, he's still underwater...

Believe me, he has a much larger financial stake in UPS stock, and dividends, and his options, and all the other goodies a district-manager level guy like a Portfolio Manager has. His financial well-being is firmly tied to UPS' financial well-being. Since he is a really smart guy, I suspect he's got a well-diversified portfolio of investments, but UPS is still probably the largest component of his personal wealth.

Rumors like this are a way to ease the pain and try to make sense of something that doesn't seem to make sense, and is hard to wrap your head around. An evil bogeyman with a personal greedy motive makes it easier to swallow.
 

nervIS

Active Member
First they came for Shared Services employees, and I did not speak up, because I was not a Shared Services employee;

Then they came for the Customer Automation employees, and I did not speak up, because I was not a Customer Automation employee;

Then they came for the SCS employees, and I did not speak up, because I was not a SCS employee;

Then they came for [insert your portfolio here], and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.

-adapted from a Pastor Martin Niemöller poem


It's called Phase 1 because there will be a Phase 2. Best of luck to all remaining [-]partners[/-] employees.
 
did ya happen to see this article: http://blogs.eweek.com/careers/content001/firing/our_lips_are_sealed_more_ibm_layoffs.html

excerpt from the article---

Three recent examples should raise the concern of all US workers:
* Advanced Auto Parts call center in Roanoke, Virginia. Outsourced to IBM. US workers terminated and call center offshored to India.
* New York City Department of Finance consulting contract on Servers. Outsourced to IBM. IBM brings in IBM India employees.
* UPS IT department. Outsourced to IBM. IBM India workers training onsite in NJ. Work to be moved to India.

How hard did you really look?

So someone's blog that references a press release from a union is a valid source to show all of IS will be outsourced?

A curtain as opposed to paper on a window in 2A-021 means we are in for the long haul with layoffs?

Come on folks...

Do you really expect a PCM to the dept. providing names and dates with details of the package being offered to people? "We have four more firings next week because people are out on vacation this week... then that will be it until September 15th when we will let 23 more people go in G&A, on October 3rd...."

There is no right way to do this - both to the people being let go AND to the rest of us still around. If you let them come back to their desks after being let go and pack up crying in front of everyone, what does solve?

Layoffs, etc. are a fact of life everywhere. We have been immune, for the most part, in the past, but not now. GD may work for UPS financially, it may not. If you don't think UPS is for you anymore... either as an investment or a career, do something else.

Asbestos pajamas are on... so flame away...
 

Scuba_Steve

Well-Known Member
Do you really expect a PCM to the dept. providing names and dates with details of the package being offered to people?


No.... I EXPECT to know the big picture so we can direct or efforts towards the goals of the company, I EXPECT to be able to motivate my team, I EXPECT that my superiors will not totally undermine the ability of their PL's to manage their staff, I EXPECT those above me to act like they have a frackin clue and not like they are just trying to go out to dinner at nice restaurants, go on trips, get their money and run.


Alas.....I expect too damn much.



Would it be Sooooo impossible to simply say:

"We are going to cut 10% of staff due to the economy, we were overstaffed and need to re-adjust our staffing levels".

"We are going to outsource this work, and if it goes well we will do more. We will try to find places for those we want to keep and some may be let go."

"We are going to get rid of you all in the next 24 months, start sending out resumes".



Guess what, until something real and substantial and not full of CYA language like a legal brief is given to the staff, then you have permanently dropped productivity of the remaining staff about 50%.

And frankly the writing is pretty much on the wall that this is just PHASE 1 of many until the entire IS organization is down to nearly zero of today's levels.

Don't expect to see anyone working any more hours over anymore, don't expect anyone go the extra effort during peak, don't expect anyone to volunteer for jack crap anymore, don't expect employees to be self motivating and continue to keep themselves working without specific direction.

Personally, I am going to sit down, be quiet and wait until the economy picks up and then like most of those that have the skills and talent, I AM starting to find a way OUT.

As soon as the job market improves a little, many more will leave on their own. It's always those that CAN leave who will leave asap. The ones left behind will be those that have no where else to go.

A company may lay off employees it considers the low end producers, but in doing so it creates a climate of personnel uncertainty. That uncertainty causes others to leave. The first people to leave due to uncertainty in the company are the best people, because they can always get another job somewhere else. The climate of uncertainty that follows a layoff, therefore, always guarantees a reduction in the quality of the staff, not just the quantity.
Companies contemplating layoffs need to consider more than just the hoped for cost savings from a layoff. They need to consider, and plan for, the less obvious effects. They need to consider the reduced morale and the reduced performance and innovation it will bring. They need to consider the reduced quality of the company's overall workforce that will result.
http://management.about.com/cs/people/a/LayoffAlternate.htm


There are some reports that when you cut 10% of your work force, the company will actually lose more than the 10%, on order of 15 to 20 percent of the work force in total will take a hike. Often those that go are the best and brightest, leaving the companies struggling to maintain some form of continuity in their operations.

You cut the bottom 10% today, without any indication of what is next, or what the vision is and you have also effectively cut the TOP 10-15% as well, was it worth it?

I remember reading this stuff in school, does anyone in our management team think about such issues?

The only explanation that I can think of is that YES they DO realize these things and that is why they are so quiet, because they think the less information they give out then the longer people will stick around to 'see what will happen', and they can try and avoid the mass exodus of the top tier employees.
 
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upsisnj

Single Contributor
UPS is now a publicly traded 21st century company. There is a responsibility to shareholders to be profitable, maintain and grow the dividend, etc.

Fedex cut jobs, DHL left, USPS is cutting back services...

As the CEO said, UPS is going to come out of this recession as a leaner (and meaner) company, (like it or not).

Who is going to hire the top talent this year? IBM? Wall St? Banks? 2010?

If necessary, UPS can increase salaries to retain talent.

For me, UPS remains a good employer, but I don't expect much from an employer, having been laid off twice before getting the opportunity to work here.

Remember our real competition is IBM and Accenture. UPS IT needs to step up and deliver value or there will be more job loss. Who knows maybe GD Phase 1 doesn't go so well... :devil3:
 

upswp

New Member
If you don't have enough confidence in your own abilities that you fear for your job then you probably should. Face it, at least in Louisville, the cuts were confined to the LE's as you would hope would be the case if something like this was going to happen. Seeing people go that you have been friends with sucks but business is business and sometimes you just have to trim the fat.

So go back to work, be productive, and do your part to help make us the company that comes out of this stronger than ever.
 
UPS is now a publicly traded 21st century company. There is a responsibility to shareholders to be profitable, maintain and grow the dividend, etc.

Fedex cut jobs, DHL left, USPS is cutting back services...

As the CEO said, UPS is going to come out of this recession as a leaner (and meaner) company, (like it or not).

Who is going to hire the top talent this year? IBM? Wall St? Banks? 2010?

If necessary, UPS can increase salaries to retain talent.

For me, UPS remains a good employer, but I don't expect much from an employer, having been laid off twice before getting the opportunity to work here.

Remember our real competition is IBM and Accenture. UPS IT needs to step up and deliver value or there will be more job loss. Who knows maybe GD Phase 1 doesn't go so well... :devil3:



If you don't have enough confidence in your own abilities that you fear for your job then you probably should. Face it, at least in Louisville, the cuts were confined to the LE's as you would hope would be the case if something like this was going to happen. Seeing people go that you have been friends with sucks but business is business and sometimes you just have to trim the fat.

So go back to work, be productive, and do your part to help make us the company that comes out of this stronger than ever.


Corporate trolls?
 
Let’s face it our IT organization has a lot of issues. Our labor is too costly and the systems we produce are much like the organization – not streamlined, not well integrated, bulky and costly. Why does every department have their own DB of systems to track where their applications should be running? An organization as large as ours should be much more mature in the way we manage ourselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capability_Maturity_Model

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITIL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9000

There is no strategy, vision or 2-3 year roadmap to get us there either.
I find it ironic that in support of the requirements IBM and Accenture have for outsourcing we now need to consider this type of stuff.
ALM / SDM is getting another update and will now be enforced, We are looking at Change Control, Release Management, Problem Management, systems availability, QA, Field Cert, etc. There will need to be contractual SLAs for all of this. All basic IT disciplines and needed to effectively run an IT shop, but not handled well by our current management. We do not have the process, tools and automation needed to effectively run ourselves.
Now they are taking the easy way of chopping people; outsourcing our core competency, but making sure they all still get their salaries and bonus.
Isn’t there a bottom 10% Least Best on DB’s staff also?
 
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copper

New Member
Let’s face it our IT organization has a lot of issues. We are looking at Change Control, Release Management, Problem Management, systems availability, QA, Field Cert, etc. There will need to be contractual SLAs for all of this.
There are a few projects in Louisville that are already on that path. They came from a level 5 CMM and an ISO-9001 certified industrial facilities. This is one of the largest reasons they are square pegs. They did not come from operations and have regularly been told they know nothing about the business because they have never touched a package. This is a snotty attitude to express toward career long professional developers. They won't be around long because there are greener pastures for them because they have real skills but have long been trashed on their QPR's because of their lack of UPSishness and failure to comply to the lackadaisical methods and structure typical of UPS ex-ops.
 

TechGrrl

Space Cadet
Let’s face it our IT organization has a lot of issues. Our labor is too costly and the systems we produce are much like the organization – not streamlined, not well integrated, bulky and costly. Why does every department have their own DB of systems to track where their applications should be running? An organization as large as ours should be much more mature in the way we manage ourselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capability_Maturity_Model

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITIL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9000

There is no strategy, vision or 2-3 year roadmap to get us there either.
I find it ironic that in support of the requirements IBM and Accenture have for outsourcing we now need to consider this type of stuff.
ALM / SDM is getting another update and will now be enforced, We are looking at Change Control, Release Management, Problem Management, systems availability, QA, Field Cert, etc. There will need to be contractual SLAs for all of this. All basic IT disciplines and needed to effectively run an IT shop, but not handled well by our current management. We do not have the process, tools and automation needed to effectively run ourselves.
Now they are taking the easy way of chopping people; outsourcing our core competency, but making sure they all still get their salaries and bonus.
Isn’t there a bottom 10% Least Best on DB’s staff also?


Yeah, but see, we had all that in Louisville for years. And all the NJ goobers would do was laugh. The Shared Services groups in Louisville had extremely good change control, configuration management, all of that. Didn't help, because 'Little Brother' wasn't NEW JERSEY, who obviously knew ever so much better.....
 

LilBrownBear

New Member
They are using reviews from the end of 2008. Those reviews are almost 8 months old. Some of those "LE"s were manufactured. I know someone who had all MEs with the exception of one LE and got an overall LE rating. That LE was brought up to an ME bordering on EE after being assigned to a different project. It's a CYA and numbers game.
 

upsisnj

Single Contributor
Nope... there are just brown up to there there noses :sick: and by serving the MASTER hoping to survive for .... may be
I'll give it 1/2 a year :funny:

Too many theres there.

I never really bought the "UPS is different, corporate partnership" line, so I'm probably not as disappointed as some.

MASTER? In a capitalist society, workers provide more value than they're paid or those workers become vulnerable.

Feel free to resume cruise control. See you next year.
 

UPS_IS

New Member
The fact is an IS clean-up was in order and still is. It sucks some good UPS'ers were let go in the process, but as many have said, maybe it's for the better. Think about a few of the people let go that you know and say they didn't deserve it. I knew about 10 and can honestly say only 1 had no business getting let go. The others were simply walking dead. Good people as a few people here seem to be that got caught up with a manager that probably didn't like them sucks, but life isn't fair. Get over it. IS and UPS have changed and anyone that's been in the company for 10+ years knows that. Stop bitching and move on with your life. For those that stay at UPS, keep your skills up to date and not just do Skillport to satisfy a QPR element. Do it because you know your job might not be safe in the future. Don't doom and gloom like many people seem to think on this forum.. Go out, get skills and put yourself in the position for when the time comes you make the call and not wait for another round of as$holes to come do it for you..
 
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