Let's say we vote NO..... now what?

[zubenelgenubi]

Your just assuming this.
Over here ups can't staff saturdays because they don't have the drivers. New drivers are working 55 hrs a week. Old drivers are working a 6th day or coming in early to staff the preload. They are still throwing money at this. Hybrid driver is just an attempt to replace top rate drivers. The company proposal allows hybrid to work m-friend exclusively driving. With No inside work. And permanently replace any top rate driver who is t-s

No, I am deducing based on the available information. Other information may come to light that would alter my thinking. I don't disagree with your assertion that hybrid drivers are the first step in eliminating higher paid ground drivers, in fact I agree emphatically that is what the point of hybrid drivers is. I have not, however, seen any information from the company or union regarding what you wrote about hybrid drivers working exclusively m-friend just driving or displacing the t-s drivers. If you have another source that confirms what you are saying, I'd like to see it.

As I said, if there is a way to run weekends like weekdays without devaluing ground driving labor, then I'd be willing to discuss the issue.

 

[Been In Brown Too Long]

No, not at all. I've got 12.5 years in. I worked 9.5 PT and i've been FT driving for 3 years now.

For me, I would have to see no difference in pay. I get that we will inevitably have to operate on Saturdays and Sundays, why aren't we just giving in to allowing other schedules that would cover the weekend, with two consecutive days off.

Why would you just give in without asking for something in return? That would be pretty bad negotiating.

 

[Chilly Willie]

I want a simple, package car drivers are to work no more than sixty hours in five days. And double time if forced or asked to work a sixth day regardless of hours worked.
If you drive a package car, your paid the same progression rate as other package drivers. Anything less is contractual disparity.

 

[How Now Brown Cow]

Why would you just give in without asking for something in return? That would be pretty bad negotiating.

What would you ask for in return? Please elaborate. That's why I started this thread, I wanted to hear what people needed for them to vote Yes.

I don't think getting hybrid language taken out and allowing routes that cover weekends would be a total loss at negotiating. They wanted new positions with less pay, we negotiate it to same high pay, just working other days. Maybe with OT or double time on any day worked not on your 5 day schedule. So they can cut your route one day then have you work another without that penalty pay. But I want to hear what everyone thinks we could get changed in the TA.

 

[Jkloc420]

What would you ask for in return? Please elaborate. That's why I started this thread, I wanted to hear what people needed for them to vote Yes.

I don't think getting hybrid language taken out and allowing routes that cover weekends would be a total loss at negotiating. They wanted new positions with less pay, we negotiate it to same high pay, just working other days. Maybe with OT or double time on any day worked not on your 5 day schedule. So they can cut your route one day then have you work another without that penalty pay. But I want to hear what everyone thinks we could get changed in the TA.

if we vote yes, we won't get these threads anymore

 

[How Now Brown Cow]

if we vote yes, we won't get these threads anymore

So we vote no. You honestly think it's going to be completely changed to benefit us?
I said I think but it will get voted down the first time around. I just don't know how long we'll keep that going. Or what changes they'll make.

 

[Jkloc420]

What would you ask for in return? Please elaborate. That's why I started this thread, I wanted to hear what people needed for them to vote Yes.

I don't think getting hybrid language taken out and allowing routes that cover weekends would be a total loss at negotiating. They wanted new positions with less pay, we negotiate it to same high pay, just working other days. Maybe with OT or double time on any day worked not on your 5 day schedule. So they can cut your route one day then have you work another without that penalty pay. But I want to hear what everyone thinks we could get changed in the TA.

they need a catch up raise to answer your question though

 

[Pullman Brown]

If future full-time driving jobs are not created in this agreement then every member should vote no especially part-timers who want one of these jobs! Don't believe the hype!

 

[Bubblehead]

9.5 issues will be in the supplements and riders not the master contract. That is why we don't have any information on it. They want us to vote yes then we can possibly get the shaft on 9.5 and other issues without having the ability to strike at that point.

9.5 language is contained in Article 37 of the National Master?

 

[Jkloc420]

@Future

 

[Future]

Send their fat asses back 2 the table .... we as workers swallow this crap ... it will b the beginning of the end

 

[Chester]

Your just assuming this.
Over here ups can't staff saturdays because they don't have the drivers. New drivers are working 55 hrs a week. Old drivers are working a 6th day or coming in early to staff the preload. They are still throwing money at this. Hybrid driver is just an attempt to replace top rate drivers. The company proposal allows hybrid to work m-friend exclusively driving. With No inside work. And permanently replace any top rate driver who is t-s

You say they don’t have the drivers so who is going to replace top rate drivers? UPS is too cheap to hire many hybrid drivers anyway, they played Taylor a fool by agreeing to this in my opinion.

 

[silenze]

You say they don’t have the drivers so who is going to replace top rate drivers? UPS is too cheap to hire many hybrid drivers anyway, they played Taylor a fool by agreeing to this in my opinion.

If this passes Ups will never hire another top rate driver ever. We all know this.

 

[no_map_needed]

9.5 language is contained in Article 37 of the National Master?

It is in the master but some supplements seem to enforce it differently. Out here it used to take two violations to even get on the list. There are some rumors going around about how some supplements will handle 9.5 going forward but I can't say on here. It would be good for us if they do amend more to the master like auto payouts and less run around language.

 

[Chester]

If this passes Ups will never hire another top rate driver ever. We all know this.

Somewhere on here is the UPS proposal that states they will maintain current number top rate drivers throughout life of contract. It was posted in tentative agreement thread but I don’t have the patience to sort thru all that mess.

 

[Bubblehead]

It is in the master but some supplements seem to enforce it differently. Out here it used to take two violations to even get on the list. There are some rumors going around about how some supplements will handle 9.5 going forward but I can't say on here.

Article 2 of the National Master states that no language in any forward Supplement, Rider, or Addendum can provide less than what is provided for in the Master.

I'm paraphrasing, but with this thought process in place, I don't see how what you're saying can be accurate, but perhaps you left out a caveat or two?

Until this present contract, we in the Central Region had our own 9.5 language, which gave us the right strike over the issue.
That supposedly made that language "better".

Reality is that we were never going to strike as a region over someone's 9.5 issues, ultimately causing us to finally revert back to the system in Article 37 of the Master.

It has worked out very well for those of us choosing to opt-in in my building.

 

[no_map_needed]

Article 2 of the National Master states that no language in any forward Supplement, Rider, or Addendum can provide less than what is provided for in the Master.

I'm paraphrasing, but with this thought process in place, I don't see how what you're saying can be accurate, but perhaps you left out a caveat or two?

Until this present contract, we in the Central Region had our own 9.5 language, which gave us the right strike over the issue.
That supposedly made that language "better".

Reality is that we were never going to strike as a region over someone's 9.5 issues, ultimately causing us to finally revert back to the system in Article 37 of the Master.

It has worked out very well for those of us choosing to opt-in in my building.

Sorry if I'm seeming inaccurate but what I was told was not less than in article 37 but a little different on how it would be handled going forward. I guess we have to wait and see if the proposal will be amended to the master. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Yaba Daba Do]

I don't think the idea of hybrid drivers in general is necessarily a bad idea if the language is right. They need to put enough penalties in so that it doesn't make economic sense to use them as regular drivers. The jobs should be used as a stepping stone to full time driver or for someone that doesn't want to work in the hub for 8 hours this would give them another option. It seems like a decent solution for excessive OT and weekend work that is a problem for so many. That said there should be penalty pay for driving over 4 hours a day (time and a half or double time for hours worked over 4) and there should also be a limit to how many they can use per day (a percentage of the total routes on road that day).

 

[brown_trousers]

Adding language to the hybrid drivers in my mind will not be enough. UPS ignores the contract when they want to anyways. Only way I vote Yes is if they pay them the same as a FT driver. Even then I still feel like I'd have to vote no.

If they paid the same as a current driver, it would pretty much be a 22.3 combo. Except that both sides of the job would be hard. Nobody would bid for that. I would vote no for that also

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

If they paid the same as a current driver, it would pretty much be a 22.3 combo. Except that both sides of the job would be hard. Nobody would bid for that. I would vote no for that also

We have full time combo jobs that pay driver rates.