burrheadd
KING Of GIFS
Wait, aren’t you retired
Local 243
- Thread starter Brownpants80
- Start date
Wait, aren’t you retired
browned out
Well-Known Member
THE PROTECTED NUMBER OF RPCD’S SHALL INCLUDE ALL FULL TIME DRIVERS CURRENTLY ON ROLL, INCLUDING ANY DRIVER CURRENTLY IN A PROBATIONARY PERIOD. Is not open to interpretation. It is an exact number that was determined before the contract was voted on.
The number of RPCDs working a Monday through Friday schedule in each building, shall be verified and agreed to by each Local Union and the Company Labor Representative, as of August 1, 2018 andshall be protected jobs. It's definitely open to interpretation and no solid number was given before the vote and no criteria was addressed.
Verified and agreed to is very vague and subject to change. All drivers currently on the role is as solid as it gets.
Excuse the Bold type but I don't have time to change it right now.
I absolutely agree that it is a moot point. But unlike 2014 our issues are many . Not just(supposedly) one like teamcare. 89 and the other holdout locals wer asking for other issues to be addressed besides teamcare
The number of RPCDs working a Monday through Friday schedule in each building, shall be verified and agreed to by each Local Union and the Company Labor Representative, as of August 1, 2018 andshall be protected jobs. It's definitely open to interpretation and no solid number was given before the vote and no criteria was addressed.
Verified and agreed to is very vague and subject to change. All drivers currently on the role is as solid as it gets.
Excuse the Bold type but I don't have time to change it right now.
I absolutely agree that it is a moot point. But unlike 2014 our issues are many . Not just(supposedly) one like teamcare. 89 and the other holdout locals wer asking for other issues to be addressed besides teamcare
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
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Frankie's Friend
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With the front or rear bumper?
Benben
Working on a new degree, Masters in BS Detecting!
browned out
Well-Known Member
Teamsters Local 243
There actually are a couple minor changes....so changes can occur.
Now 243 is recommending A NO VOTE because of their incompetence. A third grader could have added the obvious missing language.
243 should have at least been able to get the answers to our questions.
We most likely would not have liked the answers but it is 243s job to get them.
There actually are a couple minor changes....so changes can occur.
Now 243 is recommending A NO VOTE because of their incompetence. A third grader could have added the obvious missing language.
243 should have at least been able to get the answers to our questions.
We most likely would not have liked the answers but it is 243s job to get them.
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browned out
Well-Known Member
http://www.teamsters243.org/docs/vote no front.pdf
It seems the lawyers have gotten involved. Preemptive measures attempting to cover 243's incompetence.
The questions contained in the flier have been asked over and over. Numerous questions regarding changes in pay, working conditions, and terms of employment still go unaddressed.
243 is well aware that Hoffa/Hall/Taylor will push this betrayal to them membership thru.
What 243 is attempting to do is save face or put on a false front.
The members of 243 have had enough. This is a way to little, way to late tough guy stand will not hold water.
These are all issues that could have been addressed much earlier in the process. Any competent negotiator would have ensured the supplement protected and was in the best interest of all the members.
Language should have been include did not put 30%-50% of every center's drivers in 243 in jeopardy of being laid off Monday and possible Tuesday without any recourse to make up those days on Saturday and Sunday.
243 did not fulfill their duty of fair representation during contract negotiations. They will be held accountable. 243's gross negligence outside any range of reasonableness at anytime is abundantly evident. 243 miserably underestimated the intelligence and resilience of the members.
We are hoping beyond hope that 243 can fix these numerous issues that so many other supplements were able to address in a competent manner.
It seems the lawyers have gotten involved. Preemptive measures attempting to cover 243's incompetence.
The questions contained in the flier have been asked over and over. Numerous questions regarding changes in pay, working conditions, and terms of employment still go unaddressed.
243 is well aware that Hoffa/Hall/Taylor will push this betrayal to them membership thru.
What 243 is attempting to do is save face or put on a false front.
The members of 243 have had enough. This is a way to little, way to late tough guy stand will not hold water.
These are all issues that could have been addressed much earlier in the process. Any competent negotiator would have ensured the supplement protected and was in the best interest of all the members.
Language should have been include did not put 30%-50% of every center's drivers in 243 in jeopardy of being laid off Monday and possible Tuesday without any recourse to make up those days on Saturday and Sunday.
243 did not fulfill their duty of fair representation during contract negotiations. They will be held accountable. 243's gross negligence outside any range of reasonableness at anytime is abundantly evident. 243 miserably underestimated the intelligence and resilience of the members.
We are hoping beyond hope that 243 can fix these numerous issues that so many other supplements were able to address in a competent manner.
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browned out
Well-Known Member
(From Local 243 website www.teamsters243.org)
DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS: Once the Local 243 Metro-Detroit Rider was rejected, we resumed bargaining in hopes of reaching an agreement that would
address the concerns raised repeatedly by UPS members during our many Steward meetings, membership meetings and visits to the various buildings. Local
243, at the direction of our Stewards, Commiteepersons and Members, has worked to secure improvements on Article 22.4 combo drivers; increase seniority
protections; extend Local 243’s Rider to Lansing, Jackson and Adrian; guarantee pay for the time members take acquiring and renewing Airport Badges; and
other issues. Your Bargaining Committee has aggressively stood by the demands and issues you raised at our various meetings and visits. After only four (4)
bargaining sessions, UPS refused to continue to meet and bargain. On January 18, 2019, Local 243 filed National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) charges against
UPS for failure to bargain in good faith, including their refusal to continue bargaining. Local 243 believes progress can be made in these negotiations if we
could just get UPS back to the table. We must stand united in doing what is right if we hope to negotiate a Rider that will improve job security, protect seniority
and enhance working conditions. We must never let UPS divide us. The only way that we will win is by WORKING TOGETHER AS A UNION. Over the past few
months UPS has been incorrectly informing members that the Local 243 Metro-Detroit Rider is the only Rider holding up implementation of the National contract
and the retroactive pay. This is totally false. Currently, there are four (4) unresolved Riders. Between now and the vote be prepared for even more incorrect
statements and allegations from the Company. Rest assured that your Local 243 UPS Bargaining Committee is working to bring a fair resolution. Check our
website www.teamsters243.org for updates. TEAMSTERS LOCAL 243 UPS BARGANING COMMITTEE
Somehow other supplemental negotiating committees were able to get this language right the first time. Frustration with 243's negligence is at a fever pitch among 243 UPSers who actually make a living here...or hope to. Fly by nighters that have no desire to stay here for any significant amount of time do not care and will not vote.
The Teamster Constitution, National Leadersip, and 243 leadership will all undergo major changes in the near future. Some in the very near future.
243 Local Leadership and UPS stand unified. 243 and the 243 members have been divided for many years.
Local 243's incompetence and collusion has divided us. The 243 members are the ones that will separate the 243 leadership from their positions come the next local election.
DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS: Once the Local 243 Metro-Detroit Rider was rejected, we resumed bargaining in hopes of reaching an agreement that would
address the concerns raised repeatedly by UPS members during our many Steward meetings, membership meetings and visits to the various buildings. Local
243, at the direction of our Stewards, Commiteepersons and Members, has worked to secure improvements on Article 22.4 combo drivers; increase seniority
protections; extend Local 243’s Rider to Lansing, Jackson and Adrian; guarantee pay for the time members take acquiring and renewing Airport Badges; and
other issues. Your Bargaining Committee has aggressively stood by the demands and issues you raised at our various meetings and visits. After only four (4)
bargaining sessions, UPS refused to continue to meet and bargain. On January 18, 2019, Local 243 filed National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) charges against
UPS for failure to bargain in good faith, including their refusal to continue bargaining. Local 243 believes progress can be made in these negotiations if we
could just get UPS back to the table. We must stand united in doing what is right if we hope to negotiate a Rider that will improve job security, protect seniority
and enhance working conditions. We must never let UPS divide us. The only way that we will win is by WORKING TOGETHER AS A UNION. Over the past few
months UPS has been incorrectly informing members that the Local 243 Metro-Detroit Rider is the only Rider holding up implementation of the National contract
and the retroactive pay. This is totally false. Currently, there are four (4) unresolved Riders. Between now and the vote be prepared for even more incorrect
statements and allegations from the Company. Rest assured that your Local 243 UPS Bargaining Committee is working to bring a fair resolution. Check our
website www.teamsters243.org for updates. TEAMSTERS LOCAL 243 UPS BARGANING COMMITTEE
Somehow other supplemental negotiating committees were able to get this language right the first time. Frustration with 243's negligence is at a fever pitch among 243 UPSers who actually make a living here...or hope to. Fly by nighters that have no desire to stay here for any significant amount of time do not care and will not vote.
The Teamster Constitution, National Leadersip, and 243 leadership will all undergo major changes in the near future. Some in the very near future.
243 Local Leadership and UPS stand unified. 243 and the 243 members have been divided for many years.
Local 243's incompetence and collusion has divided us. The 243 members are the ones that will separate the 243 leadership from their positions come the next local election.
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BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
Maybe for people that can't read or understand contract language, NorCal
had to "dumb it down" a bit for some of the members.
Comparing your Local leaders competence level to "less than" 3rd graders ?
Wow.... I'll bet you wouldn't say that to their face at a meeting.
It appears Local 243 has attempted to address these concerns.
But, the company has refused to renegotiate ratified National language.
Isn't that why they filed NLRB charges ?
Hey look.... there's TDU !
-Bug-
browned out
Well-Known Member
To their faces, I might say that a second grader could have included better Language.
We have already expressed our dissatisfaction More than 10 drivers out of 30 some said all kinds of lovely things To Their Faces. Yes I was one of those. No I am not TDU, TU, RAFT.
You definitely appear to have old guard Hoffa views.
No one here in 243 is intimidated by 243s dumbfounded union officials.
We have already expressed our dissatisfaction More than 10 drivers out of 30 some said all kinds of lovely things To Their Faces. Yes I was one of those. No I am not TDU, TU, RAFT.
You definitely appear to have old guard Hoffa views.
No one here in 243 is intimidated by 243s dumbfounded union officials.
browned out
Well-Known Member
243 has stated that they do not know what the # of protected jobs will be.
so
No it's not clear cut like everyone on roll is.
243 does not know
so
No it's not clear cut like everyone on roll is.
243 does not know
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
You might.... but, admittingly haven't.
10 out of 30 ? That's awesome.
What do the other 30 drivers do ?
Are they laid off ?
Have you read the National language ?
-Bug-
browned out
Let me get this straight...
By your own postings, you've admitted L243 has attempted to address many their members concerns through continued discussions, UPS has refused to bargain over anything, L243 has wisely filed an NLRB complaint regarding that refusal and has wisely suggested a NO vote to continue negotiation and you're upset at L243.
You might want to change shrinks.
Let me get this straight...
By your own postings, you've admitted L243 has attempted to address many their members concerns through continued discussions, UPS has refused to bargain over anything, L243 has wisely filed an NLRB complaint regarding that refusal and has wisely suggested a NO vote to continue negotiation and you're upset at L243.
You might want to change shrinks.
browned out
Well-Known Member
I stated that the incompetence of 243's negotiating skills were substandard to a 2nd or 3rd grader's level. That statement is far too elementary. One has to delve further to come to the logical conclusion. 243 did not fail miserably on the Metro Detroit supplement because they were outsmarted. 243 purposely left out language and kept the members in the dark. The exact same tactic Hoffa/Taylor employed. One of the main reasons the Master was voted down was the ambiguity regarding RPCDs losing possibly 40% of their income if they are laid off M and T. The Teamsters and 243's not addressing of the issue of RPCDs losing 40% of their income is far beyond any range of reasonableness.
How in the world was any UPSer going to be able to vote in their best interest not knowing if 40% of their income would be lost? How?
243 has a history of colluding with UPS. 243 has a history of retaliation against members who seek to supplant them as officers. The rank and file in 243 have attempted numerous times to correct this behavior by 243. Since local 243's EB have not corrected their behavior; one can conclude that 243's EB refuses to correct their behavior. Hence; they will be voted out. New leadership is on the horizon. (TDU)...eh... wrong... just Teamsters fed up with garbage, incompetent representatives.
243 DID NOT recommend a NO vote the 1st time on the supplement they and the company agreed upon. 243 did not address or communicate with the members regarding major changes in working conditions, pay, and terms of employment. It was 243's responsibility to clarify issues that were open to interpretation in the Master and/or Central. 243 also had the right and responsibility to improve upon language in the Master or Central.
Other locals did clarify and improve language contained in the Master and/or Regional Supplement.
Language was addressed guaranteeing RPCDs the right to the day off based on seniority on overstaffed days. Language that compensated employees for time obtaining airport badges, etc was also secured. Language affording RPCDs the right to 4 10 hour days (if laid off on M) was included. Language that allowed RPCDs the ability to bump a 22.4 on a Sat was also included. Language regarding start times for both RPCDs and 22.4s was also obtained. etc.
243 got nothing. You get nothing. 243's Leadership has been a retaliating, colluding piece of work for decades.
The reason for 243's filing NLRB charges and NOW recommending a NO vote is simple. The answer is that the members were not as gullible as 243 thought they were. 243 was called out on their BS. 243 understood they may/could/will be facing charges regarding Failure to Fulfill the Duty of Fair Representation during contract negotiations. 243 is now attempting to cover their
. Too late.
Hoffa/Taylor will soon find out that they are in the same predicament.
40% or more of every RPCD and future RPCDs' income has been placed in jeopardy. This includes the vast majority of UPSers. Current FT Package Car Drivers and all future RPCDs will not have any contractual remedy to achieve 40 hours per week even though work exists. Even though 22.4s are guaranteed 40 hours per week.
243 failed to address this issue. The Teamsters at the national level failed to address this issue.
Now; someone will pick up the ball and run with it.
40% of the income of the primary livelihood paying occupation at UPS has irrationally been put in jeopardy. This is a major change of pay, terms of employment and working conditions.
40% of RPCDs income. WOW
Part-timers and 22.4s who aspire to become RPCDs will have to take this into account. 40% of RPCD income can be taken away per the CBA.
If any BCers can point to where an RPCD has the contractual right to bump a 22.4 on a Saturday or Sunday; please do so; if not; sit the friend down. (Master CBA; not NORCAL)
This is being addressed.
How in the world was any UPSer going to be able to vote in their best interest not knowing if 40% of their income would be lost? How?
243 has a history of colluding with UPS. 243 has a history of retaliation against members who seek to supplant them as officers. The rank and file in 243 have attempted numerous times to correct this behavior by 243. Since local 243's EB have not corrected their behavior; one can conclude that 243's EB refuses to correct their behavior. Hence; they will be voted out. New leadership is on the horizon. (TDU)...eh... wrong... just Teamsters fed up with garbage, incompetent representatives.
243 DID NOT recommend a NO vote the 1st time on the supplement they and the company agreed upon. 243 did not address or communicate with the members regarding major changes in working conditions, pay, and terms of employment. It was 243's responsibility to clarify issues that were open to interpretation in the Master and/or Central. 243 also had the right and responsibility to improve upon language in the Master or Central.
Other locals did clarify and improve language contained in the Master and/or Regional Supplement.
Language was addressed guaranteeing RPCDs the right to the day off based on seniority on overstaffed days. Language that compensated employees for time obtaining airport badges, etc was also secured. Language affording RPCDs the right to 4 10 hour days (if laid off on M) was included. Language that allowed RPCDs the ability to bump a 22.4 on a Sat was also included. Language regarding start times for both RPCDs and 22.4s was also obtained. etc.
243 got nothing. You get nothing. 243's Leadership has been a retaliating, colluding piece of work for decades.
The reason for 243's filing NLRB charges and NOW recommending a NO vote is simple. The answer is that the members were not as gullible as 243 thought they were. 243 was called out on their BS. 243 understood they may/could/will be facing charges regarding Failure to Fulfill the Duty of Fair Representation during contract negotiations. 243 is now attempting to cover their
. Too late.Hoffa/Taylor will soon find out that they are in the same predicament.
40% or more of every RPCD and future RPCDs' income has been placed in jeopardy. This includes the vast majority of UPSers. Current FT Package Car Drivers and all future RPCDs will not have any contractual remedy to achieve 40 hours per week even though work exists. Even though 22.4s are guaranteed 40 hours per week.
243 failed to address this issue. The Teamsters at the national level failed to address this issue.
Now; someone will pick up the ball and run with it.
40% of the income of the primary livelihood paying occupation at UPS has irrationally been put in jeopardy. This is a major change of pay, terms of employment and working conditions.
40% of RPCDs income. WOW
Part-timers and 22.4s who aspire to become RPCDs will have to take this into account. 40% of RPCD income can be taken away per the CBA.
If any BCers can point to where an RPCD has the contractual right to bump a 22.4 on a Saturday or Sunday; please do so; if not; sit the friend down. (Master CBA; not NORCAL)
This is being addressed.
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BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
Funny.... you keep spouting off about this. But, you're the only one.
Someone ?
I thought it was going to be you....
You do realize, that Article 2 Section 2 of the master would apply ?
"Any lesser conditions contained in any Supplement, Rider or Addendum shall be superseded by the conditions contained in this Master Agreement. However, except where specifically stated otherwise in the Master Agreement, nothing in this Master Agreement shall deprive any employee of any superior benefit contained in their Supplement, Rider or Addendum."
Making the Central Region Supplement.... the controlling document.
You can tell when people are getting frustrated.... with their own BS.
They have to try and disguise their use of profanity.
-Bug-
browned out
Well-Known Member
NLRB Charges are required to be filed within 6 months of the known violation. Charges against the IBT/Hoffa/Taylor must be filed soon. NLRB Charge and Petition
The statute of limitations on any charges against your local is 6 months from the date of the known violation. 6 months from when you receive your 2nd ballot for your supplement. (or from when you should have reasonably been able to have known the violation had taken place)
Others may have a different set of legal circumstances. They may want to file NLRB charges against the IBT or UPS. NLRB charges can be filed against UPS, the IBT and your Local Union. You can and should file separately. 1 charge against the IBT, 1 against your local; and 1 against UPS; if you have the evidence to support such charges.
NLRB Charge and Petition
Why did the Teamsters Union and Locals refuse to address major changes in working conditions, pay, and terms of employment affecting the majority of UPS Teamsters?
Package Car Drivers who have worked 5 days per week and at least 40 hour per week for decades asked..'what are my rights if I am laid off on M and/or T and work exists on the following Sat or Sun?' I have worked here for 20+ years. Can a newly created 22.4 receive a guaranteed 40 hours while I receive no guarantee to 40 hours?' No answer from the Teamsters.
A clear violation of the NLRB act.
Some of us have been able to hold the Teamsters and UPS accountable in the past.
It can be done. Legal Counsel should be sought but by no means is necessary to file or to be successful on an NLRB charge. $240 to $450 an hour is not cheap for a law firm specializing in labor law . If you have the funds; like some of us do; Now is the time to seek representation for the good of the UPS teamsters.
The statute of limitations on any charges against your local is 6 months from the date of the known violation. 6 months from when you receive your 2nd ballot for your supplement. (or from when you should have reasonably been able to have known the violation had taken place)
Others may have a different set of legal circumstances. They may want to file NLRB charges against the IBT or UPS. NLRB charges can be filed against UPS, the IBT and your Local Union. You can and should file separately. 1 charge against the IBT, 1 against your local; and 1 against UPS; if you have the evidence to support such charges.
NLRB Charge and Petition
Why did the Teamsters Union and Locals refuse to address major changes in working conditions, pay, and terms of employment affecting the majority of UPS Teamsters?
Package Car Drivers who have worked 5 days per week and at least 40 hour per week for decades asked..'what are my rights if I am laid off on M and/or T and work exists on the following Sat or Sun?' I have worked here for 20+ years. Can a newly created 22.4 receive a guaranteed 40 hours while I receive no guarantee to 40 hours?' No answer from the Teamsters.
A clear violation of the NLRB act.
Some of us have been able to hold the Teamsters and UPS accountable in the past.
It can be done. Legal Counsel should be sought but by no means is necessary to file or to be successful on an NLRB charge. $240 to $450 an hour is not cheap for a law firm specializing in labor law . If you have the funds; like some of us do; Now is the time to seek representation for the good of the UPS teamsters.
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browned out
Well-Known Member
BUG; or anyone else
Please help us in 243 (or in other locals that have POS leadership) prepare a grievance that will be precedent setting. None of this BS " based on the facts presented in this instant case' or 'NPS (no precedent set) garbage.
Our local leaders are unwilling or incapable of negotiating ANY decisions that set precedent.
Driver after driver taking days off to attend grievance hearings on their right to bump 22.4s will be ludicrous.
Assist us in proactively getting ahead of this soon to be major issue.
A framework or template for winning these cases that the union will have created with their open to interpretation language would be most helpful.
Thanks sir
Please help us in 243 (or in other locals that have POS leadership) prepare a grievance that will be precedent setting. None of this BS " based on the facts presented in this instant case' or 'NPS (no precedent set) garbage.
Our local leaders are unwilling or incapable of negotiating ANY decisions that set precedent.
Driver after driver taking days off to attend grievance hearings on their right to bump 22.4s will be ludicrous.
Assist us in proactively getting ahead of this soon to be major issue.
A framework or template for winning these cases that the union will have created with their open to interpretation language would be most helpful.
Thanks sir
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Lets recap... for months you've been firing away at your local's leadership, threatening consequences at the next election if you don't get your way, and boasting of how DFR charges are on the way.
Now you want to file a "grievance" on an action that hasn't happened yet; and make it precedent setting?
Hmmm...
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
That house of cards.... folded pretty quick.
If I was the arrogant, consummate prick (some people think I am) it would be
easy to ignore your plea for help.
That's not going to happen.
@browned out....
You can't file a pre-emptive grievance on what you think might happen.
The affected drivers, need to fulfill their requirements under the grievance procedure
as outlined in the Central Region Supplement.
"In the event of any grievance, complaint, or dispute on the part of any employee, it shall be handled in the following manner, and a decision reached at any stage shall be final and binding on both parties.
The grievance shall be discussed with the employee’s immediate supervisor or with the aggrieved employee and his/her shop steward. If the grievance is not resolved within one (1) working day;
It shall be the responsibility of the employee to reduce the grievance to writing on the regular grievance form provided by the union and have it submitted to the company within five (5) working days."
If and when the time comes....
I would be willing to steer you, towards the pertinent contract language.
That's the only respectful thing you have said.... though out all these months of
pontificating from a perch, in your Ivory Tower.
-Bug-
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
I hope @What'dyabringmetoday???.... doesn't see this. lol
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