MIP Factor 2018

dudebro

Well-Known Member
For those of us who were 6 years old in 1998-1999, what happened?
Good point, I shouldn't have assumed. MIP was 260 and 315%, respectively. It might have been 99-2000, but the MIP was right. At one time, it was tied to 15% of pretax profits / number of shares outstanding. Shortly after that, Wall St. flipped out about the pay package and it was 'enhanced' to 'better reflect market conditions'

At the time, no one with a significant amount of stock acquired before 1999 cared, because their stock holdings nearly tripled on Nov 10, 1999. But for those of us who may have gotten to this company about 15 years too late like me, no FU money for you...
 
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Catatonic

Nine Lives
For those of us who were 6 years old in 1998-1999, what happened?
It was announced UPS was going public and all the run up in stock value and a split resulted in a 400% gain.
Since going public, UPS stock price has had a 200% gain.
Remember the dividends though.
I sold off 90% of my UPS stock in 2006, paid off my hypos and reduced my exposure to UPS.
 
It was announced UPS was going public and all the run up in stock value and a split resulted in a 400% gain.
Since going public, UPS stock price has had a 200% gain.
Remember the dividends though.
I sold off 90% of my UPS stock in 2006, paid off my hypos and reduced my exposure to UPS.
And when the market was at it's bottom 2008-2009. It was in the 30's

Smart move Spanky.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Good point, I shouldn't have assumed. MIP was 260 and 315%, respectively. It might have been 99-2000, but the MIP was right. At one time, it was tied to 15% of pretax profits / number of shares outstanding. Shortly after that, Wall St. flipped out about the pay package and it was 'enhanced' to 'better reflect market conditions'

At the time, no one with a significant amount of stock acquired before 1999 cared, because their stock holdings nearly tripled on Nov 10, 1999. But for those of us who may have gotten to this company about 15 years too late like me, no FU money for you...

Were they that high? That equates to an MIP factor of 5.2 and 6.3 respectively in the old system. So supervisors would have gotten half a years salary and managers a full year on the 6.3. My first MIP was in 2000 and I don't remember it being that much.

Had I invested that much in H&B at one time I don't think I'd be here to tell the tail. :devil3:
 

BrownFlush

Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
It was announced UPS was going public and all the run up in stock value and a split resulted in a 400% gain.
Since going public, UPS stock price has had a 200% gain.
Remember the dividends though.
I sold off 90% of my UPS stock in 2006, paid off my hypos and reduced my exposure to UPS.
There was never a day like that day . Made us all rich .
 

j13501

Well-Known Member
Were they that high? That equates to an MIP factor of 5.2 and 6.3 respectively in the old system. So supervisors would have gotten half a years salary and managers a full year on the 6.3. My first MIP was in 2000 and I don't remember it being that much.

I've still got one of those old cards they used to hand out with all the MIP factors since 1955. (I'm only missing from 1996 to 1999) During that time the largest MIP was 3.15, in 2000. That would be just over 6 months for a manager. It was a sad day when they changed the MIP from 15% of the pre-tax profits to what you have today. It'll never be that good again.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
I've still got one of those old cards they used to hand out with all the MIP factors since 1955. (I'm only missing from 1996 to 1999) During that time the largest MIP was 3.15, in 2000. That would be just over 6 months for a manager. It was a sad day when they changed the MIP from 15% of the pre-tax profits to what you have today. It'll never be that good again.

I agree. I once asked a district controller what percentage of pretax profit the revised MIP cost amounted to, was it more or less than 15%, and by how much? He gave me a pathetic side step about how there was no way to know without knowing every management persons salary in the company.

Thanks for clarifying. I kind of thought that @dudebro was translating an mip of 3.15 in the old system as 315% in the new. Under the newer system a 100% MIP equates roughly to a 2.0 MIP of old. So a 3.15 today would be called 157.5%. I don't think anyone is ever going to see that again. The average the last few years I was in was about 70%, or 1.4. And almost every year we missed most of the BS metrics, but had great profitability, so the management committee gave that 1.4 as a "gift" for hard work despite the scorecard saying it should have been lower.
 

jeepguy63

Well-Known Member
It’s a shame (maybe a sham). 80% of recipients at the front line, who busted their ass 7 days a week, slept in their offices, etc to make peak happen are held hostage by pricing decisions at the top. The profit results announced this week show what a sham this is. For 3, 4 or maybe five years now, we have much more volume than we can handle.
I think it was Scott Davis or Kuhn who said at the start of this resi explosion that “you don’t build a church for Easter Sunday. Here we are many years later with the same problem, except in the UPS way, we continue to jam more people into the church, with no regard to what happens to them.
This isn’t a hard problem to solve. The local Bar is charging $185 cover charge for a seat to watch the game Sunday night. On Monday, you can have the seat for free! How can a local bar owner figure this out and the brain trust at the top of Ups can’t get it right for nearly a decade!
Year round -looking at packages in the cars in my building shows about 10% with smileys on them. Based on the names painted on the boxes, there are one here and there from a multitude of national retail outlets. Yet during December, 30% of the boxes have smileys and 20-25% of the rest of the car is other national retailers’packages.
Hell, look at the irregular belt. Remember the days when it was exhaust pipes, tires, buckets and crated items? When did we begin hauling furniture again?
I listened to the webcast of the earnings call this morning. The top sales guy says he is targeting and happy with 2-3% yield growth year over year. WHAT? How is our main non gov’t competitor getting much higher than 3% and we’re happy with 2-3? The last guy to ask a question nailed it - paraphrasing- why don’t you go after higher rates even if it means less volume? BINGO - So the guy who owns a bar figures it out - airlines have been pricing based on demand for decades, Uber is less than 10 years old and they have dynamic pricing, but the smartest leaders in the logistics business can only develop slogans like forward fast vs solve their own problem?
This is nuts and won’t be solved until several management committee leaders are fired. One retiring here and there won’t fix this. The Board of directors has failed in their oversight of this company. Most of them have been there across both CEO/CFO regime change.
The Board needs to act swiftly at their February meeting. How many years are they going to listen to this management committee promise a successful peak, only to see the results of a system built in the 60’s and 70’s fail under duress. Are they going to award the management committee with a higher MIP factor than the front line? (It will be in the proxy when released in March)
How many more years are the management people going to be good little “determined people” and do whatever it takes to jam 200% through a 120% tube?

My guess is MIP will be somewhere between 70 and 100. It won’t be 100 since we didn’t make the earnings target and service sucked. It won’t be less than 70 because they won’t be able to contain the revolt that number would cause. Pin me down and I’ll say 85.

It’s nonsence. With a “premier network” over capacity - we should be at 120 and above.
 

Alexcross774

Spinning my wheels.
It’s a shame (maybe a sham). 80% of recipients at the front line, who busted their ass 7 days a week, slept in their offices, etc to make peak happen are held hostage by pricing decisions at the top. The profit results announced this week show what a sham this is. For 3, 4 or maybe five years now, we have much more volume than we can handle.
I think it was Scott Davis or Kuhn who said at the start of this resi explosion that “you don’t build a church for Easter Sunday. Here we are many years later with the same problem, except in the UPS way, we continue to jam more people into the church, with no regard to what happens to them.
This isn’t a hard problem to solve. The local Bar is charging $185 cover charge for a seat to watch the game Sunday night. On Monday, you can have the seat for free! How can a local bar owner figure this out and the brain trust at the top of Ups can’t get it right for nearly a decade!
Year round -looking at packages in the cars in my building shows about 10% with smileys on them. Based on the names painted on the boxes, there are one here and there from a multitude of national retail outlets. Yet during December, 30% of the boxes have smileys and 20-25% of the rest of the car is other national retailers’packages.
Hell, look at the irregular belt. Remember the days when it was exhaust pipes, tires, buckets and crated items? When did we begin hauling furniture again?
I listened to the webcast of the earnings call this morning. The top sales guy says he is targeting and happy with 2-3% yield growth year over year. WHAT? How is our main non gov’t competitor getting much higher than 3% and we’re happy with 2-3? The last guy to ask a question nailed it - paraphrasing- why don’t you go after higher rates even if it means less volume? BINGO - So the guy who owns a bar figures it out - airlines have been pricing based on demand for decades, Uber is less than 10 years old and they have dynamic pricing, but the smartest leaders in the logistics business can only develop slogans like forward fast vs solve their own problem?
This is nuts and won’t be solved until several management committee leaders are fired. One retiring here and there won’t fix this. The Board of directors has failed in their oversight of this company. Most of them have been there across both CEO/CFO regime change.
The Board needs to act swiftly at their February meeting. How many years are they going to listen to this management committee promise a successful peak, only to see the results of a system built in the 60’s and 70’s fail under duress. Are they going to award the management committee with a higher MIP factor than the front line? (It will be in the proxy when released in March)
How many more years are the management people going to be good little “determined people” and do whatever it takes to jam 200% through a 120% tube?

My guess is MIP will be somewhere between 70 and 100. It won’t be 100 since we didn’t make the earnings target and service sucked. It won’t be less than 70 because they won’t be able to contain the revolt that number would cause. Pin me down and I’ll say 85.

It’s nonsence. With a “premier network” over capacity - we should be at 120 and above.

Well said. I know I only see my little piece of the puzzle, but most Managers and Supervisors know what is going to happen the last week of November. Our Drivers, Mechanics, Inside Emp. PT Sups all know. But someone keeps planning for a 10% increase in Peak Volume, and being shocked when it's 20%. Groundhog Day...
 

Bozo Bob

Member
The company at all levels is run by people who don't make things happen, they let things happen. No leadership whatsoever. Just keep doing things the way they've always been done, don't rock the boat, move up the ladder. The fact that during our busiest time of the year we can't adjust pricing based on capacity limits and therefore take on all kinds of money losing volume is a disgrace. I'm sure it must have been Kuhn who said you don't build a church for Easter Sunday. He was full of :censored2: remarks like that. He must have picked them up from all those McKinsey and Deloitte consultants he had up his butt all those years.

It’s a shame (maybe a sham). 80% of recipients at the front line, who busted their ass 7 days a week, slept in their offices, etc to make peak happen are held hostage by pricing decisions at the top. The profit results announced this week show what a sham this is. For 3, 4 or maybe five years now, we have much more volume than we can handle.
I think it was Scott Davis or Kuhn who said at the start of this resi explosion that “you don’t build a church for Easter Sunday. Here we are many years later with the same problem, except in the UPS way, we continue to jam more people into the church, with no regard to what happens to them.
This isn’t a hard problem to solve. The local Bar is charging $185 cover charge for a seat to watch the game Sunday night. On Monday, you can have the seat for free! How can a local bar owner figure this out and the brain trust at the top of Ups can’t get it right for nearly a decade!
Year round -looking at packages in the cars in my building shows about 10% with smileys on them. Based on the names painted on the boxes, there are one here and there from a multitude of national retail outlets. Yet during December, 30% of the boxes have smileys and 20-25% of the rest of the car is other national retailers’packages.
Hell, look at the irregular belt. Remember the days when it was exhaust pipes, tires, buckets and crated items? When did we begin hauling furniture again?
I listened to the webcast of the earnings call this morning. The top sales guy says he is targeting and happy with 2-3% yield growth year over year. WHAT? How is our main non gov’t competitor getting much higher than 3% and we’re happy with 2-3? The last guy to ask a question nailed it - paraphrasing- why don’t you go after higher rates even if it means less volume? BINGO - So the guy who owns a bar figures it out - airlines have been pricing based on demand for decades, Uber is less than 10 years old and they have dynamic pricing, but the smartest leaders in the logistics business can only develop slogans like forward fast vs solve their own problem?
This is nuts and won’t be solved until several management committee leaders are fired. One retiring here and there won’t fix this. The Board of directors has failed in their oversight of this company. Most of them have been there across both CEO/CFO regime change.
The Board needs to act swiftly at their February meeting. How many years are they going to listen to this management committee promise a successful peak, only to see the results of a system built in the 60’s and 70’s fail under duress. Are they going to award the management committee with a higher MIP factor than the front line? (It will be in the proxy when released in March)
How many more years are the management people going to be good little “determined people” and do whatever it takes to jam 200% through a 120% tube?

My guess is MIP will be somewhere between 70 and 100. It won’t be 100 since we didn’t make the earnings target and service sucked. It won’t be less than 70 because they won’t be able to contain the revolt that number would cause. Pin me down and I’ll say 85.

It’s nonsence. With a “premier network” over capacity - we should be at 120 and above.
 
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