NDA committed areas

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
200,000 people is not what I would consider "rural". The city that I live in only has 20,000 (25,000 if you count the college students) and some of the outlying villlages have less than 1,000--that is rural. If consignees are not using their correct zip codes I would do an ADC in the DIAD at delivery. This is not the situation Dilli is describing--drivers in her center are changing zip codes simply to beat the commit time.

If I understand the scenario correctly, you are right. The regular driver isn't even ADCing the zip on the package, just changing the zip in the diad so it doesn't cue the late data. Either way, it's a good way to have the opportunity to explore employment offers from other companies.
You are both correct. No, AC. The one particular area, as far as I know, has always been an incorporated area in the committed zip code. I have never seen an addy on any delivery out there that has been to the uncommitted zip code.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
It's true. The one rural rte I do regularly, I have learned a few of the shortcuts. Who's parents live where, who works where, phone numbers to so and so, etc. It can make a huge difference in the day.

There is a motorcycle mechanic out in this same rural area. He gets a lot of COD's. He's usually pretty good about having a check ready but once in awhile he forgets it or gets side tracked. I have called him and told him, "I'm at such and such for lunch. Bring a check and come have lunch with me." He will, if he's not busy.
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Re: NDA committed areas (Yo! P-man)

P-man, I have a question (and anyone else that might have info).

I was talking to my sup this morning about the issue of NDA's being committed in rural areas and how certain drivers are allowed to change zip codes or sheet as NI. We have 2 particular areas that cause major problems.

We have 3 zip codes that are committed. Is it possible to take specific areas out of a single zip code and 'un'commit them?

Hello Dill,

I know you asked a simple question, but I'm afraid my answer will be complicated. Sorry... First, a couple of disclosures...

UPS' system for handling commits is not great. Its open to many issues as you have shown. I'm sure someone will think its because of a conspriracy or stupidity, but it really is a complicated problem.

Also, my information on this is a little dated, so some of my details may be wrong but generally I think I'm accurate.

What you say (changing the commit for specific areas) can be done. It has been, but in limited cases and for good reason.

Commit times are first by ZIP code and then by city. The combination of the two determines the commit time (generally)... So, if a portion of a zip code needs a different commit, the commit can be made by city. Of course, the problem still remains. What if you want to change a portion of a city? By the way, using the city causes other problems I will try to explain later.

If a portion of a ZIP or City needs a different commit, there is an In City / Out of City indicator in the Loop Detail. If its tagged as out of city, then a later commit time can be given. This feature is used sparingly.

By the way, commit times are also based (at least for saver) on Commercial / Residential.

As you indicated originally, there are holes in this system. One is that someone can edit the Zip or C/R indicator. We would then be thinking the commit is different than what the service guide says. This is a very bad thing to do. Corporate is aware that this can happen, and I'm sure it won't be long before there is a way to catch it.

The other side of the coin is also true and happens a lot. A customer can ship a package with a wrong zip code or C/R indicator. Sometimes purposefully I believe. When you get down the the city, its even harder. When they ship the package, the service guide will show a certain commit time. When the driver gets it, the commit time is different. I have seen this a lot on Saturday. The customer can ship a package to a location that is not even available for Saturday delivery just by putting in a close zip code.

For international packages its even a harder situation.

So, the answer is that what you say can be done, but it would then require the customer to provide more accurate PLD than they do today. Its easier to just get to a zip code level.

Finally, I strongly believe that we have NDA commit times that are just too agressive. From what I've seen, these are costing a lot of miles for very few packages. I've heard corporate talk a lot about revisiting this.

Sorry for being long. If I was unclear on things let me know.

P-Man
 

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
My biggest shipper builds poultry processing equipment. Usually their customer's plants are located in more rural areas. Even though some of those areas don't have Saturday Air, they still get their parts Saturday when a machine breaks down.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Re: NDA committed areas (Yo! P-man)

:If a portion of a ZIP or City needs a different commit, there is an In City / Out of City indicator in the Loop Detail. If its tagged as out of city, then a later commit time can be given. This feature is used sparingly.
P-man, if the dispatch sup were to use this feature, would that person have to indicate individual streets within that zip as either IC or OC or would that person be able to indicate portions of a loop as such? Would changing one plan change them all or would that person have to change all of the plans for the affected area(s)? It is hard enough to get simple changes made to our DOLs--I can only imagine their reaction when asked to use this feature?
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
My biggest shipper builds poultry processing equipment. Usually their customer's plants are located in more rural areas. Even though some of those areas don't have Saturday Air, they still get their parts Saturday when a machine breaks down.

I am asked to drive Saturday air ocassionally. We will get air sent for Saturday delivery that is outside of our delivery area on Saturdays. The sup will call those consignees to see if they want to come down and pickup their pkgs or if they are OK with waiting until Monday.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
Dill
What a great question with no single perfect answer ... or is there????? Just about all the answers steered you in the right direction.

When there is no simple answer.... always use good old fashioned common sense. And though most folks are challenged in this area, I know you have are not! I went through this when 10:30 commit first came out and there were errors in the published service guide. We were told to honor the service guide. I know you are concerned with 2 things. (two sets of rules and getting hung out to dry).
Anyone who is playing with the system and editing the info is putting their job on the line. DON'T DO IT! At some point an irate customer or (a retired-UPS manager he! he!) who knows the system and has gotten burned, will file a concern. If it is not resolved the customer will take it to corporate and someone in the center will be admonished severely and possibly lose their job for tampering or dishonesty.
It does not matter whether this is a gray commit time area or not.

If a customer decides to "edit" the zip or city to get a package to their customer than UPS has very good grounds to "edit" it back. This should not affect anyone's job. If this is caught in time, I would probably look at the package to see if it was "urgent" more than likely call the customer and tell them that the shipper made a mistake on their address and try to arrange an acceptable delivery scenario that would work for both the driver and the customer.

As for the process that the commit times and areas go through.... The district IE section leader makes the recommendation on what belongs in the commit area with input from the center and division managers if there was a "grey area". This goes to the District IE manager for approval and the District Manager signs off. It then goes to the region IE manager for approval and on to corporate. The service guide is updated and the info is written in stone. There would have to be a gross error in the service guide for a business manager to get approval to over ride the guide. Anything else is flirting with your job.
 

SWORDFISH

Well-Known Member
If a person puts an incorrect zip code on a package this is the only way I could see changing anything so you can deliver it later. I have done a route like that where the customer put the zip code of the wrong city cuz they are 3 blocks from the line. I went to DR it (this was years ago before edd) and it showed late and I was like HUH. I studied the pkg and realized they put a zip on it to be committed wich was incorrect so I just told my center, deleted the delivery, rescanned it and put in the correct zip code and DRd it again. I forgot about that scenario. Can that happen w/ EDD though? Wouldnt EDD correct the zip error?
 

Dustyroads

Well-Known Member
I have a few committed nda stops that are very remote and would take me an hour to travel to the stop, deliver it and then travel to my first ground stop. That's an hour at the beginning of the day for a single stop that would be normally delivered around 4 pm. But, you know, it's the easiest hour of the day. I would never fool around with a zip code. What's in it for me?
 

SWORDFISH

Well-Known Member
I have a few committed nda stops that are very remote and would take me an hour to travel to the stop, deliver it and then travel to my first ground stop. That's an hour at the beginning of the day for a single stop that would be normally delivered around 4 pm. But, you know, it's the easiest hour of the day. I would never fool around with a zip code. What's in it for me?

I love the hour drives as well. Drives alot of people crazy though
 

Red Rose Tea

Chihuahuas Rule!
Dill
What a great question with no single perfect answer ... or is there????? Just about all the answers steered you in the right direction.

When there is no simple answer.... always use good old fashioned common sense. And though most folks are challenged in this area, I know you have are not! I went through this when 10:30 commit first came out and there were errors in the published service guide. We were told to honor the service guide. I know you are concerned with 2 things. (two sets of rules and getting hung out to dry).
Anyone who is playing with the system and editing the info is putting their job on the line. DON'T DO IT! At some point an irate customer or (a retired-UPS manager he! he!) who knows the system and has gotten burned, will file a concern. If it is not resolved the customer will take it to corporate and someone in the center will be admonished severely and possibly lose their job for tampering or dishonesty.
It does not matter whether this is a gray commit time area or not.

If a customer decides to "edit" the zip or city to get a package to their customer than UPS has very good grounds to "edit" it back. This should not affect anyone's job. If this is caught in time, I would probably look at the package to see if it was "urgent" more than likely call the customer and tell them that the shipper made a mistake on their address and try to arrange an acceptable delivery scenario that would work for both the driver and the customer.

As for the process that the commit times and areas go through.... The district IE section leader makes the recommendation on what belongs in the commit area with input from the center and division managers if there was a "grey area". This goes to the District IE manager for approval and the District Manager signs off. It then goes to the region IE manager for approval and on to corporate. The service guide is updated and the info is written in stone. There would have to be a gross error in the service guide for a business manager to get approval to over ride the guide. Anything else is flirting with your job.

You can flirt with the system - but it just takes 1 call - 1 concern - and your integrity will be questioned. There is no discrimination any longer - management or union - your job WILL be on the line.
With all the competition (FEDEX) and UPS's pride in having the most addresses with guarantee by 10:30 - it is very UNLIKELY any zip code or part of will ever be removed..
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
Re: NDA committed areas (Yo! P-man)

P-man, if the dispatch sup were to use this feature, would that person have to indicate individual streets within that zip as either IC or OC or would that person be able to indicate portions of a loop as such? Would changing one plan change them all or would that person have to change all of the plans for the affected area(s)? It is hard enough to get simple changes made to our DOLs--I can only imagine their reaction when asked to use this feature?

Great questions Dave. Thanks for thinking of them. I probably would not have. :happy-very: What say you, P-man?
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Re: NDA committed areas (Yo! P-man)

:If a portion of a ZIP or City needs a different commit, there is an In City / Out of City indicator in the Loop Detail. If its tagged as out of city, then a later commit time can be given. This feature is used sparingly.
P-man, if the dispatch sup were to use this feature, would that person have to indicate individual streets within that zip as either IC or OC or would that person be able to indicate portions of a loop as such? Would changing one plan change them all or would that person have to change all of the plans for the affected area(s)? It is hard enough to get simple changes made to our DOLs--I can only imagine their reaction when asked to use this feature?

To clarify, what first happens is that Corporate says in the service guide that a city has two commits. One for inside the city, and the other for outside.

Then within loop detail, the PDS tags which streets are in city and which are out of city. It is then fixed for every plan.

If the dispatch supervisor does it without the change in corporate, the edit will have no affect. As I said, its used sparingly.

P-Man
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
If a person puts an incorrect zip code on a package this is the only way I could see changing anything so you can deliver it later. I have done a route like that where the customer put the zip code of the wrong city cuz they are 3 blocks from the line. I went to DR it (this was years ago before edd) and it showed late and I was like HUH. I studied the pkg and realized they put a zip on it to be committed wich was incorrect so I just told my center, deleted the delivery, rescanned it and put in the correct zip code and DRd it again. I forgot about that scenario. Can that happen w/ EDD though? Wouldnt EDD correct the zip error?

I wasn't sure about the EDD piece either. I do not think you can edit it in EDD. The zip "should" already be corrected before then.

P-Man
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I wasn't sure about the EDD piece either. I do not think you can edit it in EDD. The zip "should" already be corrected before then.P-Man

You can edit the address in EDD. You would scan the pkg and this would bring up the address screen. Instead of hitting big arrow down you would simply edit the information in the screen and then hit big arrow down to complete the delivery. I would then think that the commit would be based upon the zip code in the address field.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
Hello Dill,

I know you asked a simple question, but I'm afraid my answer will be complicated. Sorry... First, a couple of disclosures...

UPS' system for handling commits is not great. Its open to many issues as you have shown. I'm sure someone will think its because of a conspriracy or stupidity, but it really is a complicated problem.

Also, my information on this is a little dated, so some of my details may be wrong but generally I think I'm accurate.

What you say (changing the commit for specific areas) can be done. It has been, but in limited cases and for good reason.

Commit times are first by ZIP code and then by city. The combination of the two determines the commit time (generally)... So, if a portion of a zip code needs a different commit, the commit can be made by city. Of course, the problem still remains. What if you want to change a portion of a city? By the way, using the city causes other problems I will try to explain later.

If a portion of a ZIP or City needs a different commit, there is an In City / Out of City indicator in the Loop Detail. If its tagged as out of city, then a later commit time can be given. This feature is used sparingly.

By the way, commit times are also based (at least for saver) on Commercial / Residential.

As you indicated originally, there are holes in this system. One is that someone can edit the Zip or C/R indicator. We would then be thinking the commit is different than what the service guide says. This is a very bad thing to do. Corporate is aware that this can happen, and I'm sure it won't be long before there is a way to catch it.

The other side of the coin is also true and happens a lot. A customer can ship a package with a wrong zip code or C/R indicator. Sometimes purposefully I believe. When you get down the the city, its even harder. When they ship the package, the service guide will show a certain commit time. When the driver gets it, the commit time is different. I have seen this a lot on Saturday. The customer can ship a package to a location that is not even available for Saturday delivery just by putting in a close zip code.

For international packages its even a harder situation.

So, the answer is that what you say can be done, but it would then require the customer to provide more accurate PLD than they do today. Its easier to just get to a zip code level.

Finally, I strongly believe that we have NDA commit times that are just too agressive. From what I've seen, these are costing a lot of miles for very few packages. I've heard corporate talk a lot about revisiting this.

Sorry for being long. If I was unclear on things let me know.

P-Man

Dill
What a great question with no single perfect answer ... or is there????? Just about all the answers steered you in the right direction.

When there is no simple answer.... always use good old fashioned common sense. And though most folks are challenged in this area, I know you have are not! I went through this when 10:30 commit first came out and there were errors in the published service guide. We were told to honor the service guide. I know you are concerned with 2 things. (two sets of rules and getting hung out to dry).
Anyone who is playing with the system and editing the info is putting their job on the line. DON'T DO IT! At some point an irate customer or (a retired-UPS manager he! he!) who knows the system and has gotten burned, will file a concern. If it is not resolved the customer will take it to corporate and someone in the center will be admonished severely and possibly lose their job for tampering or dishonesty.
It does not matter whether this is a gray commit time area or not.

If a customer decides to "edit" the zip or city to get a package to their customer than UPS has very good grounds to "edit" it back. This should not affect anyone's job. If this is caught in time, I would probably look at the package to see if it was "urgent" more than likely call the customer and tell them that the shipper made a mistake on their address and try to arrange an acceptable delivery scenario that would work for both the driver and the customer.

As for the process that the commit times and areas go through.... The district IE section leader makes the recommendation on what belongs in the commit area with input from the center and division managers if there was a "grey area". This goes to the District IE manager for approval and the District Manager signs off. It then goes to the region IE manager for approval and on to corporate. The service guide is updated and the info is written in stone. There would have to be a gross error in the service guide for a business manager to get approval to over ride the guide. Anything else is flirting with your job.

Thank you , both, for your time and answers. This does help. Now I have something I can take to my sup and start petitioning to maybe get these 2 areas changed. I don't know if it will happen but it is worth a shot. If it works then great. If not, well at least I tried.

Drivers that sit on their asses and do nothing to help the rte deserve what they get. And they won't get any thanks from me for making my job harder.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
You can edit the address in EDD. You would scan the pkg and this would bring up the address screen. Instead of hitting big arrow down you would simply edit the information in the screen and then hit big arrow down to complete the delivery. I would then think that the commit would be based upon the zip code in the address field.
Dave is right. I have edited many address this way (not zip codes). The most common ones are PAS flips.
 

brownrod

Well-Known Member
200,000 people is not what I would consider "rural". The city that I live in only has 20,000 (25,000 if you count the college students) and some of the outlying villlages have less than 1,000--that is rural. If consignees are not using their correct zip codes I would do an ADC in the DIAD at delivery. This is not the situation Dilli is describing--drivers in her center are changing zip codes simply to beat the commit time.

In our area anything outside of town where residential is zoned 1 household per 5 acres or more is considered rural. Our rural area is sprawling because there is just about 1 house per five acres. We have a huge service area with many small towns. I'm just responding to people who think drivers should be fired for putting hte correct or different zip in. This is an old school method. Not used anymore. PAS puts the proper zipcode on now.
 
Top