new 1 for 4000 goal for missorts!!

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I think everyone there receives a paycheck. But is there any other incentives for the people who go the extra mile? If I load 1200 pieces a day and the guy next to me loads 800 pieces a day do I get a bonus? Yeah, I know, I'm grateful I have a job, but the days of me destroying my body are over. Especially after all the deceptive rhetoric spewed out in order to keep me where I'm at.

Welcome to the world of a Union shop.

 

[Bubblehead]

Is it really asking too much to take just a little pride in someones work? Bubble, that is just a Disneyland fantasy? I hope not...

For $8.50 an hr.?... Disneyland fantasy is exactly what it is.
You get what you pay for.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Here's the deal;

There arent any secrets left in running a preload operation. Its basically an assembly line-type operation that does the same thing over and over and over. Every aspect of the operation has already been measured and remeasured to death.

Do you want more PPH? Then you need to accept a higher number of misloads. Do you want fewer misloads? Then you need to slow the belt down and accept fewer PPH.

What typically happens is that you want both, and in demanding both you wind up with neither. If you take an overcrowded and poorly designed facility, then speed the belt up beyond what a normal human being can load off of safely, and combine all that with chaotic, last-minute cuts and elimination of routes 10 minutes before the drivers start time....you wind up with the train wreck that is the typical UPS preload operation.

This is the same as the argument that if the driver doesn't pull the keys and secure the bulkhead at every stop he/she can get off more SPORH.

It is pure crap.

Unfortunately this might be a secret in some areas..... but it shouldn't be!
UPS employees are extremely capable of service & performance but it takes a great management team to achieve the desired results. It is not magic... treat the people right and they will work their rear ends off for you.

 

[UPS Lifer]

If a sort is busting their ***** and has a freq near 1/2700 with a goal near 1/3000, what good is increasing it to 1/4000? Tell me, what good does that do? It is simply a fairy-tale, made up number by someone who has no idea what they are doing or "setting as goal", period. You cannot possibly spin it any other way. Sober may not always be right-on, but he is in this case.

When you and Sober have accumulated 20 years of manager experience in all phases of the business ... come talk to me!

I do apologize if I come across as arrogant here. The problem with goals for some people like you and Sober is that until you reach it you think it can't be done. I guess ignorance is bliss for the rest of us.... I keep trying something new and different and keep plugging away until I achieve the results I want.

 

[iowa boy]

It is not magic... treat the people right and they will work their rear ends off for you.

This is an awesome quote. But when UPS is more concerned about the precious sets of numbers they have to put out every day, the "treating people right" thing goes flying out the window like a fart in the breeze.

Lifer, you have the idea on how to treat your employees to get the results that were needed to get the job done. But UPS nowadays is more interested in screaming, threatening, posting performance numbers to use as intimidation, etc. to try and effect the same outcomes you got instead of treating people as human beings that occasionally make mistakes.

 

[Bubblehead]

This is the same as the argument that if the driver doesn't pull the keys and secure the bulkhead at every stop he/she can get off more SPORH.

It is pure crap.

Unfortunately this might be a secret in some areas..... but it shouldn't be!
UPS employees are extremely capable of service & performance but it takes a great management team to achieve the desired results. It is not magic... treat the people right and they will work their rear ends off for you.

Part of treating them right is paying them what the desired effort is worth. Sorry to say, UPS isn't even coming close. UPS is getting exactly what they are paying for and deserve, in some cases more. I don't believe any management philosophy or series of pep talks can overcome this hurdle. Until they make the part time job at UPS an attractive gig again, nothing is going to change. Bottom line it that you can't make chicken salad out of chicken poop.

 

[tieguy]

Here's the deal;

There arent any secrets left in running a preload operation. Its basically an assembly line-type operation that does the same thing over and over and over. Every aspect of the operation has already been measured and remeasured to death.

Do you want more PPH? Then you need to accept a higher number of misloads. Do you want fewer misloads? Then you need to slow the belt down and accept fewer PPH.

What typically happens is that you want both, and in demanding both you wind up with neither. If you take an overcrowded and poorly designed facility, then speed the belt up beyond what a normal human being can load off of safely, and combine all that with chaotic, last-minute cuts and elimination of routes 10 minutes before the drivers start time....you wind up with the train wreck that is the typical UPS preload operation.

you guys tend to confuse preload missort issues with hub and local sorts. They have different issues.

in a hub type sort 1/4000 is attainable. In a preload you don't have the scanner accountability that you do in a hub.

In either case there is nothing wrong with lofty service goals. If we want to complain about lofty service goals complain to the customer who would like you to be perfect.

 

[YoungSwamp]

Actually, 1 / 4000 is not that hard to accomplish through following the proper methods. When I was a loader in the hub I would average 1 misload ever couple of months. Last time I was in the load I was 1 / 35000 while loading a very heavy load. However, this year the Corporation has started rolling out technology called MDS or Misload Detection System. It will be used in the larger hubs. Once a misload has been scanned and loaded, the management team will be able to go and retrieve the package.

 

[Bubblehead]

you guys tend to confuse preload missort issues with hub and local sorts. They have different issues.

in a hub type sort 1/4000 is attainable. In a preload you don't have the scanner accountability that you do in a hub.

In either case there is nothing wrong with lofty service goals. If we want to complain about lofty service goals complain to the customer who would like you to be perfect.

They're all the same issue when you get to the root cause.
These part timers just don't care and the various sorts are just happy if they show up on a regular basis.
UPS sets goals; much like McDonalds, Burger King, and Taco Bell.
The difference being that the other mentioned businesses acknowledge that they are paying next to or at minimum wage to their employees and accept the consequences.
As is the case most of the time, if you want to know why, follow the money.

 

[brownIEman]

For $8.50 an hr.?... Disneyland fantasy is exactly what it is.
You get what you pay for.

So, how much money does one need to be paid to take pride in ones work? 12.50? 15.00? 25.00 ?

Take some pride in your work, or don't flippin do it. The level of pay is not a secret told only after you are hired. I would strive to make a good burger if I was making big macs at 7.00 per hour, and see how fast I could get if for no other reason than to challenge myself and make the day go faster.



But tell you what, I would be happy to push for a several dollar an hour raise in starting pay for both drivers and loaders (with correspondingly higher top pay) in the next contract. As long as we also put in that once you receive the initial training, one demonstrated day less than 300 PPH for a hub loader, 220 PPH for a preloader, one more than one misload in 3500 for either, and I can fire you, no grievance, no panel, just "next" and get someone in who will give a better effort.

 

[HBGPreloader]

Take some pride in your work, or don't flippin do it.

Well put. Anything worth doing is worth doing right - despite what management tells ya

And since I'm still relatively new at this, am I correct in assuming that we are talking about 2 different job descriptions? When I mention my position as a preloader, I'm working preload shift and loading the package cars, not trailers.

Checkers

 

[Bubblehead]

So, how much money does one need to be paid to take pride in ones work? 12.50? 15.00? 25.00 ?

More than $8.50, but your getting warmer.

Take some pride in your work, or don't flippin do it. The level of pay is not a secret told only after you are hired. I would strive to make a good burger if I was making big macs at 7.00 per hour, and see how fast I could get if for no other reason than to challenge myself and make the day go faster.

It would seem there are many taking your advice and not flippin doing it. They try it and soon find out it isn't flippin worth it.
Have you been to McDonalds lately? Not many short order cooks with your attitude. By the way $7.00 per hour is sub minimum wage. Most burger joints pay more on the hour to start than UPS.


But tell you what, I would be happy to push for a several dollar an hour raise in starting pay for both drivers and loaders (with correspondingly higher top pay) in the next contract. As long as we also put in that once you receive the initial training, one demonstrated day less than 300 PPH for a hub loader, 220 PPH for a preloader, one more than one misload in 3500 for either, and I can fire you, no grievance, no panel, just "next" and get someone in who will give a better effort.

That will be between you and the Teamsters local that governs the Disney World building that you work at.

What are the two jobs that an employee can get completely wrong day after day without suffering any real consequences?

1. A TV weatherman

2. A UPS IE employee

 

[UPSBluRdg03]

Yea I liked what you were saying IE, till you got to the part about your gone after a couple misloads. When i used to load I remember fondly going anywhere from 1/8000 to 1/10,000 in a week then the next week or two down the road Id have like 3 misloads. Sure enough they would try to hit me with a warning letter or a 1 day suspension. Course the steward would always say no way but if it werdnt for the union how many actual decent employees would be canned because mgmt couldnt handle a few misloads here and there. Gimme a break.

 

[Bubblehead]

Look, maybe I was a little hard on brownIEman.
He's obviously very passionate about his business.
Why wouldn't he be?
He has alot to lose.
He has alot invested.
These part timers don't.
This is what's missing.
When I started as a young man in the 80's at $8/hr it was good money.
Better than 2 1/2 times the minimum wage of the day.
Young, strong, smart college kids fought to get and keep these jobs.
There was no need for a management person with a title, that contained the word retension, like there is today.
Take a look around now and what do you see?
I know what I see, a revolving door.
Pride doesn't pay the bills and accolades aren't what these people are looking for.
Make these jobs more lucrative like they were long ago and people will achieve goals and stick around for more than a couple of months.
They may even fear losing their job, the ultimate motivator.

 

[soberups]

...There is a third option. Train and work with your people, ask them to put in a little effort and take a little pride in their work and strive to be just a bit better, or to reach a high level of proficiency and maintain it.

Is it really asking too much to take just a little pride in someones work? Bubble, that is just a Disneyland fantasy? I hope not...

It can be hard to take pride in your work when you are set up to fail by your management.

The MDU where my route is loaded is undersized and overcrowded. Plant engineering jury-rigged a conveyor belt out thru a hole cut in a wall, and the opening is poorly designed which leads to constant jams.

There arent any stack tables. Bulk stops just pile up on the floor and the preloaders often have to crawl over the packages to get from one car to the next.The roof and doors leak, causing the floor and all of the packages to get wet when it rains.

Management has no intention of ever solving these underlying problems...yet they are more than willing to scream at people for shutting off the belt to manage flow, or threaten discipline for misloads at the same time they are yelling at everyone to "wrap up and get off the clock".

There are no "bad" preloaders.... only bad preload managers and incompetent plant engineers.

 

[soberups]

But tell you what, I would be happy to push for a several dollar an hour raise in starting pay for both drivers and loaders (with correspondingly higher top pay) in the next contract. As long as we also put in that once you receive the initial training, one demonstrated day less than 300 PPH for a hub loader, 220 PPH for a preloader, one more than one misload in 3500 for either, and I can fire you, no grievance, no panel, just "next" and get someone in who will give a better effort.

If we could hold management to this same standard...you might be on to something.

Blow the dispatch and keep your drivers out for 12 hrs after eliminating a route? Gone.

Get caught doing bargaining unit work? Gone.

Excessive injury rate, or ongoing 9.5 grievances? Gone.

Lousy timestudies that are consistently an hour or two behind reality? Gone.

I guess "high expectations" are fine.... as long as they are only being put on other people.

 

[soberups]

When you and Sober have accumulated 20 years of manager experience in all phases of the business ... come talk to me!

I do apologize if I come across as arrogant here. The problem with goals for some people like you and Sober is that until you reach it you think it can't be done. I guess ignorance is bliss for the rest of us.... I keep trying something new and different and keep plugging away until I achieve the results I want.

I will admit that I dont have 20 yrs of manager experience.

What I do have...is 23 years of experience at watching the preload operation in my building consistently fail.

What I do have...is 23 years of experience at watching UPS consistenly ignore and refuse to solve the same, underlying problems that set its people up to fail over and over and over again.

My facility was constructed in 1986. It was built on the cheap; it was totally obsolete, overcrowded and inadequate long before it even opened. And 23 years of jury-rigged band-aids later, the same underlying problems of incompetent design and poor planning still remain.

I dont care how motivated, how efficient, or how well trained your people are...they still cant get 10 gallons of sh%t into a 5 gallon bag, no matter how many warning letters you threaten them with.

 

[brownIEman]

Look, maybe I was a little hard on brownIEman.
He's obviously very passionate about his business.
Why wouldn't he be?
He has alot to lose.
He has alot invested.
These part timers don't.
This is what's missing.
When I started as a young man in the 80's at $8/hr it was good money.
Better than 2 1/2 times the minimum wage of the day.
Young, strong, smart college kids fought to get and keep these jobs.
There was no need for a management person with a title, that contained the word retension, like there is today.
Take a look around now and what do you see?
I know what I see, a revolving door.
Pride doesn't pay the bills and accolades aren't what these people are looking for.
Make these jobs more lucrative like they were long ago and people will achieve goals and stick around for more than a couple of months.
They may even fear losing their job, the ultimate motivator.

I disagree with your premise that you cannot take pride in your work making 8.50 or less an hour. Some of the work I am most proud of in my life, I did not get paid a dime for.

But set that aside. For the sake of argument, lets say I agree we pay starting preloaders way too little and cannot ask them to strive to do a good job.

The real problem I have with that hypothosis, is that it runs counter to what I see on a daily basis. In my preload operations, by and large the newer folks (no one with less than a year) are more likely to actually take pride in their work and try to do a good job. It is the ones who have been around for years, decades in some cases, and are making better than $20/hour that are more likely to be slugs who don't care about making good service or improving their work performance.

 

[UPS Lifer]

If these preloaders want more money, take it from their benefits.

Options - no pension contribution - less or no paid sick days - major reduction in health care benefits. This way UPS could pay the PT employees a higher hourly wage.

For employees who see the big picture, they could pay for their benefits with the increased hourly rate.

Maybe this needs to be looked at harder next contract or maybe not!

 

[brownrod]

So,

But tell you what, I would be happy to push for a several dollar an hour raise in starting pay for both drivers and loaders (with correspondingly higher top pay) in the next contract. As long as we also put in that once you receive the initial training, one demonstrated day less than 300 PPH for a hub loader, 220 PPH for a preloader, one more than one misload in 3500 for either, and I can fire you, no grievance, no panel, just "next" and get someone in who will give a better effort.

I'm actually totally with you on this. Because using your logic we'd have to fire the entire preload and deploy an automated preload.