New PPADS...Ground and Express using the same unit.

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Yeah my Safari browser crashes alot on this site too.

The reason I asked about Ground is the rationale is Express won't need W700's with Ground delivering P2. But won't Express need 700's on many routes to pick up bulk P2? I believe this is going to happen no matter what, but I'm hoping to offset somewhat the loss of hours the new pay plan will top us out faster. If so, it'll be a wash for me but current topped out couriers are going to hurt if only getting 35 or so hours.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
Yeah my Safari browser crashes alot on this site too.

The reason I asked about Ground is the rationale is Express won't need W700's with Ground delivering P2. But won't Express need 700's on many routes to pick up bulk P2? I believe this is going to happen no matter what, but I'm hoping to offset somewhat the loss of hours the new pay plan will top us out faster. If so, it'll be a wash for me but current topped out couriers are going to hurt if only getting 35 or so hours.

I'm doing this post using Safari instead of IE - didn't crash but it is darn slow pulling up the page - it has to be BC.

But won't Express need 700's on many routes to pick up bulk P2?

Absolutely - I stated the PROPORTION of vehicles would change - NOT the complete phase out of W700s... All Pups will be the exact same as they are now - NO CHANGE. If the label says "Express", only Express will PUP the piece.

The question you should be asking is: "Why has Express still not enabled Express Couriers that clear drop boxes to perform a PUP scan on Ground pieces they have? (Which all Couriers have found in their drop boxes).

Answer: If Express Couriers process Ground shipments, they aren't meeting the definition of an employee that is covered under RLA - handling exclusively "express" shipments (as defined by the RLA). Technically, Express Couriers shouldn't even be touching Ground pieces, even to bring them into Express stations. There should be separate Ground drop boxes set up right next to every Express drop box.

Why hasn't this been done? FedEx is getting away with Couriers bringing in volume un-scanned to be processed by CSAs (who are also under the RLA - they shouldn't be processing non-Express volume technically). FedEx is having their cake and eating it too with this little unofficial practice.

I believe this is going to happen no matter what, but I'm hoping to offset somewhat the loss of hours the new pay plan will top us out faster.


No info on how the pay raises in March will play out...

However... if there was going to be some spectacular pay increase in March, wouldn't logic dictate that Express would make an announcement NOW, to get the most milage out of it??? Wouldn't morale jump if everyone knew they were getting a certain minimum increase in March - and knew it NOW? Express HR aren't idiots - they know that if something spectacular was being planned, they'd have posters plastered all over the stations.

Haven't heard of any such thing...

An announcement could go as follows: "FedEx Express is pleased to announce that it is committing itself to a minimum 10% pay increase for all of our wage employee come the first week of March 2012. Should FedEx's financial position improve between now and March, Express will strive to increase the pay increase for our wage employees by an even greater amount. We are committing ourself to our primary asset, our people and want to demonstrate our commitment to you now, rather than wait to make an announcement after New Year's Day."

If Express was going to do something spectacular, they would've made a very public affair of it. I haven't heard of anyone hearing anything. To the contrary, there is no proposed pay increase amount being floated about - all indications are that Express is going to sit on their hands till after peak to make a decision as to how much to fork over.

If you get anything over 5% - I'd be absolutely shocked. You just had your health benefits reduced in value to you (as a non-wage benefit) - getting even a 5% pay increase will just mean that you are treading even with what you made in 2011 (after the effects of inflation are taken into consideration). My money is on an average (averaging crafts, by regions) of 3.5% pay increase. No info on this, just my gut instinct based on FedEx's financial performance to date and expected peak performance.

but current topped out couriers are going to hurt if only getting 35 or so hours.


And how many Couriers could stay in a situation where they are being paid minimums for full-time, instead of the equivalent of 50 to 55 hours of pay (post OT consideration)?

If a Courier is used to getting paid the equivalent of 50 hours and gets reduced to minimums after the conversion, their gross will only be 70% of what it was pre-conversion. Then consider the cost of benefits is a fixed amount each week, actual net pay for drawing minimums will probably drop to about 60% or so of pre-conversion take home.

Full-timers can tread water for a few months like this, but eventually they'll have to start looking for either supplemental work or another full-time job entirely. FedEx frowns on full-timers having supplemental work - screws up their scheduling (you can BET scheduling will get screwy post conversion). Run a P1 delivery route, take a mandatory 4 hour split shift, then do a PU route - or else forfeit your minimums.... How long could full-timers last under that regime??

FedEx KNOWS it won't have to worry about making any layoffs - they'll still pay minimums to the full-timers; they'll just make it so that full-timers will eventually quit on their own - no layoffs, no unemployment, no negative PR.

This is why I'm still amazed as to why the Couriers haven't started signing union cards en mass. I just know they are going to wait until the kettle is at a hard boil, before they start saying, "Hey, maybe we ought to think about unionization, since Fred isn't being so nice anymore." Too late... you're cooked.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
"(Ground semi drivers are covered under NLRB and are employees of Fedex,....) Right and wrong. Ground is covered under the NLRB but the semi drivers are no different than the rest of us. They are either contractors or employees of contractors. There are no "company" drivers.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
I was told that the Ground semi drivers were indeed FedEx employees.

Do they own their tractors or does a contractor? (think I found the answer)

Are the contractors IC or ISP model?

What is the wage rate and method of payment for semi-drivers (hourly rate, by mile with pay for wait time, etc.) (found the answer)

How many are grouped under a specific contractor?

Pulled this from 2003 BC posting...

I have been talking to some fedex ground tractor trailer drivers on the CB radio for a while now. I get the impression that if they own 3 or 4 trucks and have some other drivers working for them, the owner makes a fairly good living. However the drivers that work for them seem to be making about $0.28 per mile. One driver said she drives about 500 miles per night locally. Thats only $140 per night for a 12 hr day with no healthcare, pension, sick days, or vacation. Ouch.


Found this listing for a current job listing:

•Teams start at .48 per mile, paid full or empty.
•Pay increases after 6 months and 1 year.
•Teams average 4800 miles per week.
•Paid vacation, holidays and medical insurance.
•Sign on bonus.
•All loads drop and hook.
•Home weekly.

Either this contractor compensates really well, or Ground tractor drivers do make a good amount. That position works out to $1152 a week (starting), or just about $60,000/yr. If this listing is true, Ground drivers make close to or even a bit more than Express RTD's.

I knew the compensation package for Ground tractor drivers had improved significantly over the past few years, I think I and those in Express I talk to made the same assumption that they were employees and got their increase in compensation due to the fact they were employees of Ground.

This is rather curious - why did they get such a large compensation jump? (or is this owner just plain desperate for drivers?)

Thanks for the heads up.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
Came across this in regards to Ground linehaul:

Linehaul contractors haul packages on the “long-haul” routes between FedEx Ground hubs. These contractors provide their own power units (tractors) and FedEx Ground provides the trailers. They are responsible for business-related expenses, including payments on their power units, fuel, taxes, insurance and vehicle maintenance.
 

Myort

Well-Known Member
Express will move ALL volume which is Express product (overnight, 2nd and 3rd day) volume through the AGFS system - no alterations planned there. The only possibility is for CTVs between hubs and ramps and those between ramps that carry non-overnight volume, they MAY be shifted over to Ground vehicles for transport (semi's with Ground markings and Ground employee drivers operating them).

I've NEVER heard that this is in planning though, and would strongly doubt Express would do it. There isn't that great of a disparity of compensation between Express RTDs and Ground semi drivers (Ground semi drivers are covered under NLRB and are employees of FedEx, they could unionize in a heart beat if they wanted - thus they aren't paid the crud wages that the delivery drivers are paid).

Ground has moved Express volume over long distances for many years. Routes over a certain distance were always done by contract carriers, (XYZ trucking, etc). Ground became one of the contract carriers. Actually rather smart from a corporate standpoint, takes another company out of the equation.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Came across this in regards to Ground linehaul:

Linehaul contractors haul packages on the “long-haul” routes between FedEx Ground hubs. These contractors provide their own power units (tractors) and FedEx Ground provides the trailers. They are responsible for business-related expenses, including payments on their power units, fuel, taxes, insurance and vehicle maintenance.

All Ground tractors are owned and operated by contractors. As you have pointed out, the trailers belong to FedEx. My contacts cannot answer this next question, but maybe yours can. Where are all of the new roller-bed Ground trailers that we were seeing 2 years ago? Also, when a station loses W-700's and 900's, presumably they are being shifted to other FedEx locations. Or maybe they aren't. Where exactly are they going? Is it also possible that these walk-ins are being stored somewhere and will be offered to new Ground contractors as a means of getting started with lower costs?

Ground could easily be utilized to take over current Expres CTV runs, eliminating the RTD job classification entirely if Fred so chooses. Contrary to information that has been posted on here, there is a very large shortage of CDL drivers forecast for the next 5 years. Better compensation would serve to retain more quaified drivers.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I was told that the Ground semi drivers were indeed FedEx employees.

Do they own their tractors or does a contractor? (think I found the answer)

Are the contractors IC or ISP model?

What is the wage rate and method of payment for semi-drivers (hourly rate, by mile with pay for wait time, etc.) (found the answer)

How many are grouped under a specific contractor?

Pulled this from 2003 BC posting...

I have been talking to some fedex ground tractor trailer drivers on the CB radio for a while now. I get the impression that if they own 3 or 4 trucks and have some other drivers working for them, the owner makes a fairly good living. However the drivers that work for them seem to be making about $0.28 per mile. One driver said she drives about 500 miles per night locally. Thats only $140 per night for a 12 hr day with no healthcare, pension, sick days, or vacation. Ouch.


Found this listing for a current job listing:

•Teams start at .48 per mile, paid full or empty.
•Pay increases after 6 months and 1 year.
•Teams average 4800 miles per week.
•Paid vacation, holidays and medical insurance.
•Sign on bonus.
•All loads drop and hook.
•Home weekly.

Either this contractor compensates really well, or Ground tractor drivers do make a good amount. That position works out to $1152 a week (starting), or just about $60,000/yr. If this listing is true, Ground drivers make close to or even a bit more than Express RTD's.

I knew the compensation package for Ground tractor drivers had improved significantly over the past few years, I think I and those in Express I talk to made the same assumption that they were employees and got their increase in compensation due to the fact they were employees of Ground.

This is rather curious - why did they get such a large compensation jump? (or is this owner just plain desperate for drivers?)

Thanks for the heads up.

A team operation translates into over-the-road driving, as opposed to short regional hops. In a team operation, the truck is on the move 24 hrs a day, so this would be long-haul driving. The real shortage of CDL-A drivers is in the long-haul segment for numerous factors, the main one being the lousy lifestyle. Living out of a truck is no fun, and being gone 5 days out of the week is a marriage and family killer, so enticing drivers to do this kind of work requires more pay. The 500 mile per night driver would run from one regional hub to another, or do a meetpoint trailer swap, and be home every night.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
Ground has moved Express volume over long distances for many years. Routes over a certain distance were always done by contract carriers, (XYZ trucking, etc). Ground became one of the contract carriers. Actually rather smart from a corporate standpoint, takes another company out of the equation.

When I stated "move volume" I was referring to movement through AGFS (I edited this post because of a misunderstanding of the point Myort was making).

Yes, Express has always used contract line haul for intermarket movement of volume. The change is Express using Ground for DELIVERY of volume.

When a contract carrier trucks volume from hub to ramp, or between ramps, that carrier is working WITHIN the AGFS network.

The whole impending change is the utilizaton of Ground as a cartage agent for Express for the delivery of packages.
 

SmithBarney

Well-Known Member
Wow.. I start a topic.. come back a couple days later, and have a book to read... glad to be of service.

someone said "The question you should be asking is: "Why has Express still not enabled Express Couriers that clear drop boxes to perform a PUP scan on Ground pieces they have? (Which all Couriers have found in their drop boxes)."

Express couriers can pup ground packages at drop boxes, go to exceptions, and scroll all the way down.
Been doing it for 4 years that way. Then the CSA doesn't need to scan it presumably.

In our area all of our drop boxes have been fitted with new decals... and the "NO GROUND ACCEPTED" has been removed from the
main decal and placed on a single(removable) sticker... (not that the customers care if it fits in the door they shove it in Ground/Express/UPS/USPS/Garbage or whatever)
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
This is significant since one of the chief reasons given by Express to have the DGO side of Express covered under the RLA is that they are all part of an "express" system, which only handles express volume. If there is the capability for Express Couriers to actually process a Ground package at a stop, then that whole argument of Express' is out the window - there would no longer be a credible argument to keep DGO under RLA rules.

If there are others who PUP drop boxes and have Ground pieces shoved into them, try scanning them with the exceptions code (what is the PUX number for this scan?).

IF Express is going to allow its Couriers to process non Express volume, then somthing is up - or Fred is secure in the knowledge in that he can push the limits of what RLA allows and get away with it.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Can't say what other stations are doing but our senior told us to stop taking Ground on oncalls. If anyone hands us one, or gotten from a dbx, we just bring it in, unscanned, place it on a cart where Ground guy stops and collects them. I'm not sure if our CSA's are processing them at front counter, but they still go on cart for Ground retrieval.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
This is significant since one of the chief reasons given by Express to have the DGO side of Express covered under the RLA is that they are all part of an "express" system, which only handles express volume. If there is the capability for Express Couriers to actually process a Ground package at a stop, then that whole argument of Express' is out the window - there would no longer be a credible argument to keep DGO under RLA rules.

If there are others who PUP drop boxes and have Ground pieces shoved into them, try scanning them with the exceptions code (what is the PUX number for this scan?).

IF Express is going to allow its Couriers to process non Express volume, then somthing is up - or Fred is secure in the knowledge in that he can push the limits of what RLA allows and get away with it.

I think it's the latter. Fred has so many politicians working for him that he might feel invulnerable. Perhaps he has elevated himself to "God" status.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
This (Express Couriers PUPing Ground) is rather significant if it is happening at all. The whole arguement Express put forth to keep everyone in Express covered under RLA and not just those who are involved in aircraft operations (most of AGFS) is that Express is an integrated network; from pickup to delivery of high priority shipments. Therefore its employees can't be allowed to the opportunity to organize on a local basis (NLRB rules) but rather must be covered under the greatly more restrictive RLA rules (all or nothing nationwide organizing).

If Express Couriers are going to be processing Ground shipments - no matter how few, they aren't involved in exclusively performing "express" shipment movement. Therefore (again), they don't fall under the defintion of employees who are to be covered under RLA rules for organizing.

I'm wondering if the software that allows PUPing of Ground volume is merely an unintended oversight (on part of the developer who wrote it), or deliberate.

Fred knows that if DGO were to be shifted over to NLRB rules for organizing, he'd have the IBT in at least one-third of his stations (shutting them down), if not one-half. So I'm finding it rather difficult to beleive that he'd be so cavalier as to even open Express up to the possibility of having DGO shifted over to local organizing procedures. Having Express Couriers scanning a handful of Ground packages isn't worth the potential loss of his Golden Egg (RLA).

I'd recommend that the Couriers that come across Ground packages at drop boxes that they clear, to attempt to put a scan on them. If you can put scans on them, I'd have to recommend that you do so as a regular course of practice (unless you are threatened by your local managment to specifically NOT scan them). Having a number of Ground packages come through the system with PUP scans done by Express Couriers could be ammunition enough in the future to get DGO removed from the RLA scheme and properly categorized.

If this does amount to an unintended crack in the door by Express (giving Couriers software that allows scanning of Ground), push that door opan as far as possible and prove that you don't belong under RLA rules - but should be given the opportunity to organize locally. After all, if you are processing non "express" shipments, you aren't truly a dedicated "express" employee, you are an employee of a company which handles all types of shipments (just like UPS) and should be given the opportunity (from a legal line of argument) to organize on a local basis.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Our scanners won't pickup an express barcode and at call-in pickups that are Express packages, procedure is to enter into the scanner that it is an Express pickup. CPC (Customer Pickup Corelation) monitors this information and will get a message to Express of the situation to arrange an Express pickup.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
Our scanners won't pickup an express barcode and at call-in pickups that are Express packages, procedure is to enter into the scanner that it is an Express pickup. CPC (Customer Pickup Corelation) monitors this information and will get a message to Express of the situation to arrange an Express pickup.

That is how it "should be" - Ground can't touch Express - not for any convoluted legal reason, but rather there is no practical way to get an Express piece over to an Express location to get moved into AGFS for movement, should a Ground driver take possession of it.

However, the converse presents some issues regarding how Express is categorized for labor organization purposes. If Express (or even just DGO) was removed from the RLA rules - there wouldn't be any "legal issue" of Express Couriers processing Ground packages.

Some may see it as nitpicking - but in the world of laws, regulations and finance - nits are what are picked so that companies can boost their profitability.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Unfortunately, in the world of laws, the nits that are picked become the norm. 67mph in a 65mph zone is speeding....
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
Can't say what other stations are doing but our senior told us to stop taking Ground on oncalls.

How would you know if it's a Ground oncall until you get to the pickup?

For what it's worth, the call center needs to do a better job of screening Ground oncalls or better yet, have a separate phone number for Ground. Is it really that hard? :biting:
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
How would you know if it's a Ground oncall until you get to the pickup?

For what it's worth, the call center needs to do a better job of screening Ground oncalls or better yet, have a separate phone number for Ground. Is it really that hard? :biting:

FedEx deliberately has the single 1-800-GoFedEx number for ALL customer issues, since they want customers to believe that FedEx is a unified operation. The customers that have used FedEx for awhile know there is a sharp division, but FedEx sill wants to put out the impression that it is all seamless.

If FedEx REALLY wanted to clear the air, they would have different numbers for different services:

1-800-Express

1-800-Ground1 (need 7 digits)

1-800-Freight

You get the idea....

It would solve a lot of the problems, the customers, by choosing which number to call, are automatically choosing which service they want to utilize. There is a reason why there is only one number to call, then the call agent has to figure out what the customer really wants.

There were many times I'd arrive at a location to find a HWT waiting for pickup -with no shipping information prepared. First I had to let the customer know - I don't lift 300 pound pallets into my truck. Second, I had to go to the time and effort to figure out if the customer wanted "air" freight service (Express HWT), or "ground" freight service (FedEx Freight). I usually gave the customer 2 minutes to figure out what the hell they wanted, before I pulled the plug and told them to try again and specify exactly what service they wanted to use to the person on the other end of the phone. I'm confident a few ended up using UPS freight - glad to have been of service.... it is the price Fred pays for his attempts at obfuscation with the public.
 
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