New PPADS...Ground and Express using the same unit.

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I still tell people that Ground is the "FAKE" FedEx and Express is the "REAL" one (really crappy..but I digress)
You may tell them whatever you want, but when a package gets to them from two states away overnight, well maybe you can explain why they should have paid 6 times as much for basically the same result. Perhaps that would give them insight into the "REAL" Fedex".
 

HomeDelivery

Well-Known Member
so Ground and Express can now have similar barcodes???

I'll still accept Express stuff if the customer knows that the package is not a priority air parcel (usually a return-to-sender/warranty item) & the Express driver picks it up from the Hub the next day.

if it's an air parcel, I'll tell 'em to drop off the air priority stuff at the Express location/ drop boxes instead & will not accept that

I'm still using the old scanner & some Ground stuff is still being scanned into the HD-side <shrugs> will that be changed?
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
How would you know if it's a Ground oncall until you get to the pickup?For what it's worth, the call center needs to do a better job of screening Ground oncalls or better yet, have a separate phone number for Ground. Is it really that hard? :biting:
You don't know until you get there. But if you enter no pkg you'll be asked if there was a Ground pkg. Reply yes and the powerpad automatically enters "Ground Pup Only", which is what they want us to tell customer. If it's a business especially, emphasize that they must tell call center it's a Ground pkg. Otherwise we'll keep having to return in the future.
 

LTFedExer

Well-Known Member
You may tell them whatever you want, but when a package gets to them from two states away overnight, well maybe you can explain why they should have paid 6 times as much for basically the same result. Perhaps that would give them insight into the "REAL" Fedex".
The difference being Express guarantees next day service.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
The question you should be asking is: "Why has Express still not enabled Express Couriers that clear drop boxes to perform a PUP scan on Ground pieces they have? (Which all Couriers have found in their drop boxes).

Answer: If Express Couriers process Ground shipments, they aren't meeting the definition of an employee that is covered under RLA - handling exclusively "express" shipments (as defined by the RLA). Technically, Express Couriers shouldn't even be touching Ground pieces, even to bring them into Express stations. There should be separate Ground drop boxes set up right next to every Express drop box.

Why hasn't this been done? FedEx is getting away with Couriers bringing in volume un-scanned to be processed by CSAs (who are also under the RLA - they shouldn't be processing non-Express volume technically). FedEx is having their cake and eating it too with this little unofficial practice.

Nonsense.

Express is paid by Ground for each Ground piece that is accepted at an Express counter. FedEx Office is also paid by Ground and Express for accepting their packages. For lack of a better term, Express is a vendor to Ground in those instances.

Why don't they want Express couriers grabbing Ground PUPs? Money! More often than not, the labor costs of a courier getting a Ground PUP and tendering it to the CSA for processing exceed the money that Express gets from Ground. Plus, Ground route owners don't like Express couriers taking their PUPS when they get paid per stop and per piece.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
Nonsense.

Express is paid by Ground for each Ground piece that is accepted at an Express counter. FedEx Office is also paid by Ground and Express for accepting their packages. For lack of a better term, Express is a vendor to Ground in those instances.

Why don't they want Express couriers grabbing Ground PUPs? Money! More often than not, the labor costs of a courier getting a Ground PUP and tendering it to the CSA for processing exceed the money that Express gets from Ground. Plus, Ground route owners don't like Express couriers taking their PUPS when they get paid per stop and per piece.

No... you need to read up on how Express stays under RLA

What Ground route owners "like" has no bearing whatsoever on how Express operates.

Everyone knows that FedEx shifts money around for other opco's and FASCs taking volume in - sorry, no newsflash there...

There are very REAL reasons why Express Couriers aren't supposed to be touching Ground pieces at all. It does have to do with money in the end, but in a roundabout manner - the money FedEx saves in keeping Express under RLA and not having to worry about paying Couriers a union wage rate as opposed to a free market wage rate. That is what it is ALL about.
 

Mr. 7

The monkey on the left.
I can guarantee you guys that about 2 yrs. ago if I encountered a ground pkg. at a pup, if you scrolled all the way down on the PP, there was a choice to scan the ground bar code. That feature has been gone for at least 2 yrs. now. I don't know if it mattered if it was a reg. pup or, an on call pup.

Today, when I hit my drop box, I'll scroll all the way down and see if I can scan a ground pkg.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
No... you need to read up on how Express stays under RLA

What Ground route owners "like" has no bearing whatsoever on how Express operates.

Everyone knows that FedEx shifts money around for other opco's and FASCs taking volume in - sorry, no newsflash there...

There are very REAL reasons why Express Couriers aren't supposed to be touching Ground pieces at all. It does have to do with money in the end, but in a roundabout manner - the money FedEx saves in keeping Express under RLA and not having to worry about paying Couriers a union wage rate as opposed to a free market wage rate. That is what it is ALL about.

59 Dano has to check with Maury and MT3 before he responds. FedEx is such an honest company. How could you ever suspect that Ground and Express have a mutually beneficial incestuous relationship? Shame on you for thinking that Fred isn't living the Purple Promise.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
I left a phone message for a former coworker to attempt to scan a Ground package if he got one while doing the pickup portion of his route. He got back to me as soon as he completed his first box with a Ground package in it.

Lo and behold, he was able to do an exception at a drop box by scrolling down to the very last option - Ground pick up - and place a scan on the package. When he closed the stop, he stated that it prompted him to print a batch label - which had the tracking number of the piece he just scanned.

When I was a Courier, I don't remember any exception like this, so I'm, wondering if they changed the software and didn't tell anyone, or what the heck is going on.

Go ahead and try it - and if you can scan Ground packages - scan everyone you can get your hands on. If you are processing non-"express" shipments, then you don't belong under RLA. You are just a plain, ordinary delivery truck jockey - not part of a critical, national resource that cannot be shutdown through local strikes and such.

I'm curious as 'ell to see what the reaction of your station management will be when they start seeing their Couriers placing scans on Ground pieces - should be interesting.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I left a phone message for a former coworker to attempt to scan a Ground package if he got one while doing the pickup portion of his route. He got back to me as soon as he completed his first box with a Ground package in it.

Lo and behold, he was able to do an exception at a drop box by scrolling down to the very last option - Ground pick up - and place a scan on the package. When he closed the stop, he stated that it prompted him to print a batch label - which had the tracking number of the piece he just scanned.

When I was a Courier, I don't remember any exception like this, so I'm, wondering if they changed the software and didn't tell anyone, or what the heck is going on.

Go ahead and try it - and if you can scan Ground packages - scan everyone you can get your hands on. If you are processing non-"express" shipments, then you don't belong under RLA. You are just a plain, ordinary delivery truck jockey - not part of a critical, national resource that cannot be shutdown through local strikes and such.

I'm curious as 'ell to see what the reaction of your station management will be when they start seeing their Couriers placing scans on Ground pieces - should be interesting.

Interesting is right. I'm waiting for a Purple suck-up to get on here and tell us that we are a critical national resource that would spell doom for the American economy if we were to ever go on strike. God Bless Fred S for keeping the United States safe from predatory unions. Gee, I wonder why the PowerPad would work for both divisions? Anyone who doesn't see the writing on the wall is smoking crack.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
No... you need to read up on how Express stays under RLA

No, FedEx implements vertical integration into its operations, just like lots of other companies. The opcos charge each other (and pay each other) for services rendered, just like other vertically integrated companies. They report these charges in their quarterly and annual reports.

If you want to continue beating the "shuffling money around" drum, then call the SEC, because that kind of shuffling is a no-no and would land the CEO (pardon me, 'Fred') in some very deep doodoo.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
59 Dano has to check with Maury and MT3 before he responds. FedEx is such an honest company. How could you ever suspect that Ground and Express have a mutually beneficial incestuous relationship? Shame on you for thinking that Fred isn't living the Purple Promise.

I'd try to take you seriously, MFE, but I can't. Despite all the big talk and the bluster, it's clear that you're just some guy who spent however many years with the company and never made any effort at developing the skills to earn a bigger paycheck. All you do is whine about the company for your own lack of effort and professionalism.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
I left a phone message for a former coworker to attempt to scan a Ground package if he got one while doing the pickup portion of his route. He got back to me as soon as he completed his first box with a Ground package in it.

Lo and behold, he was able to do an exception at a drop box by scrolling down to the very last option - Ground pick up - and place a scan on the package. When he closed the stop, he stated that it prompted him to print a batch label - which had the tracking number of the piece he just scanned.

When I was a Courier, I don't remember any exception like this, so I'm, wondering if they changed the software and didn't tell anyone, or what the heck is going on.

Go ahead and try it - and if you can scan Ground packages - scan everyone you can get your hands on. If you are processing non-"express" shipments, then you don't belong under RLA. You are just a plain, ordinary delivery truck jockey - not part of a critical, national resource that cannot be shutdown through local strikes and such.

I'm curious as 'ell to see what the reaction of your station management will be when they start seeing their Couriers placing scans on Ground pieces - should be interesting.

That PUP exception has been there for at least 2.5 years, if not longer. If they wanted to keep it quiet, I doubt they'd PUT IT IN THE POWERPAD FOR ALL OF US TO SEE. Ground pays Express for taking in Ground packages. Managers don't care if you scan those packages under that exception or not, but that scan has been used to identify Ground customers who habitually place package in Express dropboxes. If you have a customer who does that, by all means, scan the packages.

And +1 for the most specious definition of RLA disqualification that I've ever seen!
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I'd try to take you seriously, MFE, but I can't. Despite all the big talk and the bluster, it's clear that you're just some guy who spent however many years with the company and never made any effort at developing the skills to earn a bigger paycheck. All you do is whine about the company for your own lack of effort and professionalism.

Do you just smoke it, or do you free-base?
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
That PUP exception has been there for at least 2.5 years, if not longer. If they wanted to keep it quiet, I doubt they'd PUT IT IN THE POWERPAD FOR ALL OF US TO SEE. Ground pays Express for taking in Ground packages. Managers don't care if you scan those packages under that exception or not, but that scan has been used to identify Ground customers who habitually place package in Express dropboxes. If you have a customer who does that, by all means, scan the packages.

And +1 for the most specious definition of RLA disqualification that I've ever seen!

The very fact that FedEx even has an RLA exemption is laughable. Fred S simply bought himself one, but you're too blinded by passion for the company to see the truth. Now, he's going to try and pull-off another coup, by switching Express product over to Ground. As politically powerful as Fred is, he'll face some legal hurdles along the way. If Smith didn't have the money, he'd be nowhere right now, but he does, and those big bucks let people like Fred make the rules, right?

As you sip the Lipton and trumpet the wonders of the "free" enterprise system, does it ever dawn upon you that Fred owns those that supposedly represent the will of the people? I'm glad you like working for a dictator that bought himself a business advantage so he could more fully exploit his workforce.

We've been noticing what Fred has been planning for quite awhile, and he hasn't been all that smart about covering his tracks.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
No, FedEx implements vertical integration into its operations, just like lots of other companies. The opcos charge each other (and pay each other) for services rendered, just like other vertically integrated companies. They report these charges in their quarterly and annual reports.

If you want to continue beating the "shuffling money around" drum, then call the SEC, because that kind of shuffling is a no-no and would land the CEO (pardon me, 'Fred') in some very deep doodoo.

When it comes to the RLA, how FedEx shuffles around it cash it IRRELEVANT.

Have a holding corportation (FedEx Corp), create an operating company (Ground, Freight, Office, etc.). fund said operating company with cash and make the necessary accounting notations (debit cash, debit equity for holding company - credit cash, credit liability account for opco). As opco operates, it generates revenue and eventually profit - as profitability enables initial infusion of cash to be "repaid" to holding company, it does do. Holding company shows profitability. Opco can contract out for services from another opco of the holding company - money is exchanged for "services" rendered.

Since FedEx doesn't engage in open competition when it does decide to have one opco perform services for another - one opco can and DOES charge what it wants to provide the service - money is shuffled around like this. The decision to contract out services by one opco ISN'T made by that opco - it is made by FedEx Corporation. This happens in many holding corporations and is perfectly legal - there is no requirement to obtain open competition for services or products - nor should there be.

If Express wants to contract trucking out to a contractor (say Swift), it gets a quote and makes a decision as to whether or not to agree to the terms. If for some reason, FedEx Corporation decides that Freight is underutilized, it can make the decision to have Freight move the Express cargo (have a Freight tractor and employee pull an Express trailer) - again, no big deal. Even if FedEx Corp decides that the contract between Freight and Express for this service will result in charges that are GREATER than the rate offered by Swift in this instance, that is OK too - all perfectly legal. It is how cash is moved around and excess capacity of one opco is utilized rather than having that opco take a loss and have a net outflow of cash from the corporation AS A WHOLE.

The having of one opco provide services to another is IRRELEVANT for the purposes of RLA classification of employees of a single operating company (FedEx Express).

The "default" categorization of a company's labor for purposes of organizing is to be under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), which is administered by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB).

In order for a company to be categorized under the highly restrictive RLA (restrictive from a labor organizing and strike potential) - it must meet certain criteria.

One of these criteria is that employees have to be engaged in activity that is solely related to the "express" movement of either passengers or cargo. If the employee is to be engaged in activity which doesn't meet this (and other) criteria, they must be categorized under NLRA organizing rules. UPS moves plenty of "express" air cargo around. However, since they operate as an integrated SINGLE company for their package movement, they remain classified under NLRA rules - and thus why the Teamsters are in UPS.

Apart from the millions in lobbying expenses FedEx Corporation has spent to keep Express categorized under the RLA, the reason Express has remained under RLA classificaiton rules is that its employees engage in the movement of "express" cargo ONLY. They don't engage in the movement of non "express" (definitions under RLA) cargo. This is the reason that all the opco's exist - if Federal Express had expanded into the businesses that it currently has without creating separate opcos -there would've been NO WAY for Federal Express to keep the employees of the "original Express", under RLA - and thus keep the Teamsters and every other union out. FedEx is organized the way it is for one primary purpose - to make it either impossible or virtually impossible for a union to get in - excepting those darn pilots, who couldn't be intimidated by Fred.

The capability of Express to have its Couriers place a scan (a revenue generating event) on a Ground package - has changed the game. With this, Express Couriers are now no longer operating SOLELY as movers of "express" cargo (defined by the RLA) but rather are ordinary delivery truck jockeys. THis means that they fall outside the intent of RLA restrictions, and should be moved over to NLRA organizing rules.

When I was a Courier, I can't remember EVER seeing a PUX that allowed a scan to be placed on a Ground package. The individual that I suggested to attempt a scan should he come across a Ground package - wasn't even aware the PUX was available. He (and everyone in the station) were instucted to bring any Ground packages they found in their drop boxes back to the station WITHOUT ATTEMPTING TO PLACE A SCAN ON THEM.

This has been standard operating practice for Express Couriers for YEARS now - don't scan Ground packages, bring them into the station and have the CSAs PUP them (which shouldn't technically be processing non-express volume either, since they are covered under RLA rules). I'm still waiting for the bomb to drop and have FedEx move Express CSAs under FedEx Services (then "contract" out their services back to Express). Right now, CSA processing of Ground volume at Express stations is "under the radar" of the politicos. It's not a secret, but neither is anyone going to raise a stink about it either.

With this scan capability, an Express Courier can literally arrive at a customer's location (that has placed an oncall PU), find a Ground piece waiting, then perform a PUX to not indicate "Ground package only", then leave it, but rather a PUX that has "Ground package pickup" - scan the piece, then leave with it. This is a revenue generating event - which takes the RLA classified Courier OUT from the operating restrictions of RLA, and into what is classified as work under NLRA rules.
 
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