New Prime Inc. vs Oliveira SCOTUS 17-340

Discussion in 'FedEx Discussions' started by bacha29, Oct 4, 2018.

  1. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    Another former contractor brought this case to my attention. This is another "is he an employee or an independent contractor?" matter. This one however has gone all the way to the top. The case evolves around the question of whether Mr. Oleivera is a contractor or employee as it pertains to the Federal Arbitration Act of 1925. If the court comes down on the side of Olivera what impact it could have on the FXG model would not be immediately known leaving contractors to decide if they want to hang around and see what happens or try to get out under terms that may not be as favorable later on.
     
  2. dmac1

    dmac1 Well-Known Member

    If this is before the Supreme court now, it has been quite a while since filed. If the contract has changed significantly by requiring multi route owners being required to incorporate, pay drivers as their own employees. etc, it won't have any bearing on today's contractors.

    A lawsuit filed based on the current model would probably need to be filed, and take another 5-10 years to get to the supreme court.

    I personally say that the current model probably makes fedex co-employers, but probably gets away with the contracting person being something like a franchisee. The very fact that fedex ground still hires drivers to make deliveries, and pays those drivers, they can't claim that they are just a warehouser that contracts out local deliveries. That is ignoring all the control issues.
     
  3. dmac1

    dmac1 Well-Known Member

    I just did a quick glance at the case. This is about a contractor working for a trucking company that is filing a case for back pay and to claim that he was an employee under the law. The contract required arbitration, and the guy is trying to avoid arbitration by claiming that as a contractor, he can't be required to use arbitration. On one hand he is saying the contract makes him a contractor, while at the same time claiming he should have been labelled an employee.

    I faced a similar situation. I filed for unemployment after fedex terminated my contract when I wouldn't violate the contract. My 'damages' were more than the contract would have allowed me to recover under arbitration. I filed a case claiming that the arbitration clause was unenforcable because it was unfair and one-sided, and won. So at that point I was able to file a lawsuit for damages. At the same time, fedex fought my unemployment claim, saying I was a contractor, and wasn't allowed to collect UI. After several months, I won and fedex was named as my employer, and also the employer of people I used to drive my routes. At that point, the class action was starting, and I was asked to join as a named plaintiff, since I had already been found to be an employee by the state. My lawsuit for damages was based on contract damages, and wasn't compatible with claiming I was an employee. Both sets of lawyers acknowledged that trying to claim both could be an issue in both cases, and said I should choose one or the other. I foolishly thought the class action would be quicker and dropped my personal case. My real losses were the ability to sell my route, and a loss I took on a couple of my vans. There could have been some punitive damages, but the state required that half of punitive damages would go to the state anyway. After the class action, I probably ended up close to breaking even covering the loss on the vans, plus most or maybe all of what I would have netted from selling the route. But the class action took more than 10 years, basically because of the attorneys trying to consolidate all the state cases. They had originally thought that there were federal claims they could make pertaining to ERISA. I don't know why they never followed up on those except that they wanted to get it over with, and made enough money by settling.
     
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  4. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    Not being critical quite the contrary but it would appear that you spearheaded the drive toward the creation of the multi route ISP/CSP condition that exists today. Presently FXG contractors are in a somewhat more settled environment but given the horror stories surrounding the Amazon DSP operation combined with what would appear to be a diminishing supply of cheap labor it may not be for long.
    Peak season could be quite interesting especially for those contractors who can't acquire enough cheap labor to fulfill their contractual obligations and I kind of doubt that X will show any mercy to those who can't.
     
  5. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    Sounds to me that FedEx will have to pay more in a competitive labor market. Thank you Mr.President.
     
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  6. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    Please tell me just exactly what involvement your Dear Leader has had in this matter.?
     
  7. 59 Dano

    59 Dano I just want to make friends!

    Delivered the economy that he promised and that his predecessor said wasn't possible.
     
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  8. dmac1

    dmac1 Well-Known Member

    You are aware that the total growth of 3% or so is directly attributable to tax 'cuts' that need to be repaid don't you?????? A 3% growth is about $600 billion per year, and the tax 'cut' added about $500 billion PER YEAR to the deficit. Before Trump we had slightly lower growth, but only about 1/2 the projected deficit. We were growing about $400 billion in GDP, but with deficits half of Trump's.

    All the money added to the debt because of the so-called tax 'cuts' needs to be repaid with interest added, meaning that you really need to pay MORE in taxes than before. It was like taking a cash advance on your credit card. You end up paying WAAAAAAAY more than you borrowed. If anything, you didn't get a tax cut at all, maybe you can call it a tax deferral.

    It is really simple math, not even equations are involved, just comparisons to see whether Trump or Obama had higher deficits, higher inflation, faster stock appreciation, a greater drop in unemployment, lower gas prices, lower mortgage interest rates, etc. Too bad so many Trump supporters can't even accept such simple math concepts as greater than or lesser than.

    Monthly payments if you purchase the same home now as when Obama left office is about 25% more. Many people have been priced out due to climbing mtg interest rates. Inflation is at about 3% while wage growth is below 2%, even with a tax deferral. Corporations are doing okay because all their tax burden has been transferred to the debt which PEOPLE will need to pay, or we will be raising retirement age, increasing medicare deductibles, and cutting social security benefits by about $400, so republicans can say they didn't raise taxes. A $15 a WEEK tax deferral now is really worth the $400-$500 increased costs/decreased income per MONTH when you need to wait two extra years to collect???? I don't think so.
     
  9. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    When this tax cut sugar high wears off the results will leave us no better off. Three or four weeks ago Treasury sent out word that it will need to do increased borrowing with rising interest rates. Some traders worry that we may see an interest rate inversion with the yield on the 5 year exceeding the 10 year which has shown itself to be a reliable predictor of a recession. What is so comical was when there was a Democrat in the WH the Reps were jumping up and down hollering and screaming about the deficit. Now that it's their deficit my how quiet they've become. And yes the GOP agenda for the next Congress surrounds desperate and dramatic cuts to key social programs including Medicare, Social Security and even Medicaid a program that see two thirds of it's budget go to pay for the care of nursing home patients which will likely have to be made up by the states. All of which are driven by the fact that economic growth has not grown revenues enough to offset the tax cuts.
    So the few extra dollars the average person saw in their paychecks will be more than offset by inflation and higher interest rates.
     
  10. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    Van's a big boy now. He can take care of himself. He doesn't need his little brother to step in and fight his battles for him.
     
  11. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    You do realize that government revenue is actually up after the tax cut? We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.
     
  12. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    But after a few years living out of country and with your health slowly deteriorating you'll be back here to sign up for every US social program that can improve your individual situation and overall quality of life including those you think we spend too much money on . An opinion that will undergo a complete reversal when your life is better because of them.
     
  13. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    Nope, cost of living too high here, even with Medicare. Colombia has excellent medical facilities.
     
  14. MAKAVELI

    MAKAVELI Well-Known Member

    Sounds familiar. :happy2:
    Health Care in Colombia: Top Quality and Affordable
    Everyone Has Access to Colombia’s Health Care System



    To understand Colombian health care, it’s important to understand the way in which Colombians view health. In 1991, Colombia drafted a new constitution that called for sweeping reforms. The new governing document deemed a person’s health a basic human right that applies to all citizens and foreign residents. It was a groundbreaking decision that paved the way for everyone living in Colombia to have access to the health care system.

    And the Colombian court system stands behind the right to health care. If your doctor recommends a treatment that the insurance company refuses to pay for, you can contest the denial of service using a legal instrument known as a tutela, which you can file with any civil court. Although most civil cases languish on dockets for months or years, the law requires judges to rule on tutelas within three days, and they often rule in favor of patients.

    Colombia has one public health insurance company, Nueva EPS, and dozens of private companies. All Colombian policyholders have the same basic health care plan, which includes medical, dental, and vision care. Private companies offer premium policies that expand upon the basic coverage. For instance, basic insurance won’t cover the cost of LASIK eye surgery, but some premium plans will pay a portion of those costs.

    All plans will cover you and at least one beneficiary—a spouse, minor child, dependent parent, or partner—at no extra cost. If you’re married and have three minor children, a single policy can cover your whole family. Dependent employees pay 12.5% of their salary—8.5% paid by the employer and 4% paid by the employee. Independent workers must pay the entire 12.5% from their own funds. Retirees also must pay the full premium, but they get a slightly lower rate—12%. Copayments vary by income level and break down as follows:
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
  15. 59 Dano

    59 Dano I just want to make friends!

    Tax cuts don't cause debt. Federal tax revenues are at record highs. Yawn.

    Dude... he promised the economy we have now and his predecessor said that it wasn't possible. Your issue is with the guy who said that the current economic growth couldn't be achieved.

    If you want rock bottom interest rates and zero inflation, then pray for a stagnant economy, because that's how you get them.
     
  16. 59 Dano

    59 Dano I just want to make friends!

    I don't think it's fair to call any interaction with you a "battle." At least not of wits, anyway.
     
  17. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    Colombians, most anyways, make so little that for expats getting paid in Dollars it's very affordable. Just another reason to consider living overseas if your retirement income is limited.
     
  18. MAKAVELI

    MAKAVELI Well-Known Member

    You missed my point. Their system is very similar to what Obama was trying to achieve with the ACA.
     
  19. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    Right, but little burden is put upon average citizens in Colombia. Obamacare hurt a lot of people in the Dems goal to get to single payer. By the way most expats on Colombia forums recommend getting private insurance because Colombia's public system has long delays in being seen.
     
  20. bacha29

    bacha29 Well-Known Member

    Gosh I just thought that being a gentleman and Oxford educated scholar you are you would have compassion and understanding for those of us with lesser intellects which has me and perhaps others wonder why you're conversing on line with the likes of us and not other great minds similar to yourself.