No time off for the 4th

[bacha29]

You don't have to remind me. But, I have other things to worry about than if I'll be fired tomorrow. In the meantime, I'll go in, do my job and enjoy the check at the end of the week. If I hated my job or the company that I work for as much as some of the people on here, I'd have been gone a long time ago

Of course you don't hate it. After a few trips to the Fedex Mind Control And Reeducation Academy you will have become fully assimilated and therefore are no longer capable of hating the company no matter how unjust and outrageous are the things they do to you.

 

[bacha29]

You keep offering up facts and the only rebuttal I keep seeing is “well who else are they going to turn to?”

There is one enormous similarity between and Express employees terms of employment and the unilaterally drafted and implemented terms of a Fedex Ground contractor service agreement.......................NOTHING"S BINDING !
There is simply no governing legal authority in place with the power to make any such agreements binding upon that company.
Sure, an employee can try that hopelessly biased in house grievance process or perhaps try the NLRB, good luck with that.
Likewise a contractor can take Ground to arbitration if he wanted to but guess who gets to choose the people who will sit on the arbitration board? What are you chances? And guess who gets to pay court costs? Why it's the losing party which is about 99.999% certain to be the contractor.

 

[AB831]

There is one enormous similarity between and Express employees terms of employment and the unilaterally drafted and implemented terms of a Fedex Ground contractor service agreement.......................NOTHING"S BINDING !
There is simply no governing legal authority in place with the power to make any such agreements binding upon that company.
Sure, an employee can try that hopelessly biased in house grievance process or perhaps try the NLRB, good luck with that.
Likewise a contractor can take Ground to arbitration if he wanted to but guess who gets to choose the people who will sit on the arbitration board? What are you chances? And guess who gets to pay court costs? Why it's the losing party which is about 99.999% certain to be the contractor.

Right. They have legal carte blanche to change your pay, your schedule, anything, and your recourse is to quit or bend over and take it. The market is dictating that this isn’t a $30 an hour job anymore. So......when Express decides it doesn’t want to pay that anymore, what are people going to do? Now is the time to start thinking about jumping ship.

 

[bacha29]

Right. They have legal carte blanche to change your pay, your schedule, anything, and your recourse is to quit or bend over and take it. The market is dictating that this isn’t a $30 an hour job anymore. So......when Express decides it doesn’t want to pay that anymore, what are people going to do? Now is the time to start thinking about jumping ship.

I'm happy to see that you're pursuing a profession along with the hope that the upcoming recession/ depression doesn't negatively impact your options and opportunities . Getting into a place that offers tenure and has a union might be a good place to hide out for awhile and ride this thing out then climb out of when the shooting stops and the coast is clear.

 

[AB831]

I'm happy to see that you're pursuing a profession along with the hope that the upcoming recession/ depression doesn't negatively impact your options and opportunities . Getting into a place that offers tenure and has a union might be a good place to hide out for awhile and ride this thing out then climb out of when the shooting stops and the coast is clear.

Thanks, man. I mean, I definitely have some anxiety heading into it. I feel like a crotchety old man with the amount of time I spend reading about county budgets and stuff like that, but it’s imperative to stay well informed because it’s going to affect me majorly in the next two to three years. As you are doing, I implore people at FedEx to pay that same careful attention to what’s going on in the company and prepare accordingly, but it seems like most of them prefer to bury their heads in the sand give half-baked reasons for why it’ll “never happen to us.”

 

[It will be fine]

Thanks, man. I mean, I definitely have some anxiety heading into it. I feel like a crotchety old man with the amount of time I spend reading about county budgets and stuff like that, but it’s imperative to stay well informed because it’s going to affect me majorly in the next two to three years. As you are doing, I implore people at FedEx to pay that same careful attention to what’s going on in the company and prepare accordingly, but it seems like most of them prefer to bury their heads in the sand give half-baked reasons for why it’ll “never happen to us.”

Some people see the entire system unexpectedly running at capacity for months as an indicator that the company is failing. Some of us see it as an indicator of continued growth for the foreseeable future.

 

[AB831]

Some people see the entire system unexpectedly running at capacity for months as an indicator that the company is failing. Some of us see it as an indicator of continued growth for the foreseeable future.

Absolutely. I think the company will be fine, and I think you’ll be fine with the niche you’ve carved out for yourself. However, I’m not so sure that the guys who are used to making $30 an hour and $45 an hour with overtime will be.

 

[Fred's Myth]

There is one enormous similarity between and Express employees terms of employment and the unilaterally drafted and implemented terms of a Fedex Ground contractor service agreement.......................NOTHING"S BINDING !
There is simply no governing legal authority in place with the power to make any such agreements binding upon that company.
Sure, an employee can try that hopelessly biased in house grievance process or perhaps try the NLRB, good luck with that.
Likewise a contractor can take Ground to arbitration if he wanted to but guess who gets to choose the people who will sit on the arbitration board? What are you chances? And guess who gets to pay court costs? Why it's the losing party which is about 99.999% certain to be the contractor.

A broken record, unlike a broken watch, isn’t correct twice a day.

 

[bacha29]

A broken record, unlike a broken watch, isn’t correct twice a day.

Perhaps, but at the same time you've never rejected or disputed the facts that I've presented.

Furthermore Fat Freddy publicly stated that his company would be the lowest cost carrier in the industry and therefore few people if any will be spared from the painful steps that can be taken and are likely to be taken in the pursuit of that goal.

If you're fortunate enough to be at or near the best position you can be in from a standpoint of retirement , it might just be a good time to think about taking it.

If you are young enough, talented enough and can learn at a pace equal to your younger peers acquiring a trade or profession might be worth a long and serious look.

If you're a contractor operating in an area that is already depressed and likely to get worse deciding on the limit of how much money you're willing to place for the sake of another one year contract that isn't worth the paper it's written on is something to ponder as well.

The entire package delivery business is heavily dependent on discretionary spending and given the unlikelihood of a complete return to a full throttle economy anytime soon , a painful adjustment for the entire industry may only be weeks away especially if Washington decides that the sooner or later the economy for better or worse will have to find a way to stand on it's own.

 

[AB831]

If you're fortunate enough to be at or near the best position you can be in from a standpoint of retirement , it might just be a good time to think about taking it.

I think putting all the topped out drivers out to roost is Fat Freddy's game plan for Express. One of my managers didn't elaborate on the nature of coming changes except that we'd be shifting a lot of our residentials to Ground. What he did say was that the guys who are used to making 10 hours a day are "going to feel it". All of those step progression papers they had hanging up in the break room and checkout room are long in the trash. It seems that the plan is to make conditions so intolerable for topped out drivers that they willingly retire, only to be replaced by a 22 year old making peanuts. What about the mid-career drivers who are making $24 an hour and were planning on sticking it out until they were topped out? Welp. That day is never coming, so you can make your $24 an hour for the rest of your career or you can find another job and be replaced by a 22 year old making peanuts. Did anyone actually come out and say this yet? Of course not, but if you read between the lines, it really looks like that's where their heads are, and I don't know why people keep saying "it'll never happen to us" as if they somehow have immunity or recourse against the company's whims.

 

[Maui]

I think putting all the topped out drivers out to roost is Fat Freddy's game plan for Express. One of my managers didn't elaborate on the nature of coming changes except that we'd be shifting a lot of our residentials to Ground. What he did say was that the guys who are used to making 10 hours a day are "going to feel it". All of those step progression papers they had hanging up in the break room and checkout room are long in the trash. It seems that the plan is to make conditions so intolerable for topped out drivers that they willingly retire, only to be replaced by a 22 year old making peanuts. What about the mid-career drivers who are making $24 an hour and were planning on sticking it out until they were topped out? Welp. That day is never coming, so you can make your $24 an hour for the rest of your career or you can find another job and be replaced by a 22 year old making peanuts. Did anyone actually come out and say this yet? Of course not, but if you read between the lines, it really looks like that's where their heads are, and I don't know why people keep saying "it'll never happen to us" as if they somehow have immunity or recourse against the company's whims.

There's been a lot of talk about this. Basically the plan is to reduce the number of daily flights to reduce costs. There has to be scale to make it work so past efforts of single markets or districts would not necessarily be indicative of what to expect. Broadly speaking, SO/ES would have a sunrise sort and be trucked rather than flown. This will increase costs at the station level because it will require a second sort to process that freight and get it delivered by the commit. The intent would be that cost is more than offset by reducing flights.

Whether or not this ultimately reduces OT or pushes tenured couriers to mid-day is TBD. Just how much box freight would come through those affected markets is not accurately identified. The west would not be impacted by this due to distance to the hubs. It could move to OAKH, LAX, or ONT in the future, but it would never be on the same scale and may not happen at all. FedEx is a better job west of the Rockies than east.

That being said, turnover costs money. There is a healthy amount of churn with retirements, people that should be terminated, and promotions. Once you get past that amount - it varies by company/industry then it makes sense to retain employees. I'd expect to see wage increases in most normal environments. The bottom is rising with $15/hr jobs at Target, etc and FedEx will need to recruit and retain talent.

I do think pursuing something professionally is great. It's my understanding you're in DMV. Teacher pay there is good for tenured teachers. I know that's not true everywhere, but it is very reasonable to expect 90K+ with a MA/MEd in that area. I have friends that teach in MD with and English degree that do very well. Also, if something happened you could teach elsewhere and locate in a well-paying area. If you make 85K+ at FedEx and lose that job it might not be so easily replaced.

 

[59 Dano]

Maybe you missed the part where I mentioned denial.

I was referring to the "that company completely rescinding that compensation plan in a heartbeat, replacing it with a far lower pay scale" that you claim employees don't believe. Why hasn't the company done this already?

 

[59 Dano]

If it were not for the censors at Express you would have heard about Oak Park Michigan, Hampton Virginia where boxes were piled up outside with tarps thrown over them and the LA debacle last peak where 300+ loaded trailers were parked and backed up waiting to get unloaded. And given that conditions such as this appear to becoming more numerous or at least more publicized the questions will no doubt very soon surround the reliability if not the sustainability of the network in the face of the ever increasing demands being placed on a 1985 era business model that had significant limitations built right into it.

Again: According to you, Ground suffers from turnover rates so high that it renders the business model unsustainable. Why would other opcos subject themselves to a similar fate?

 

[59 Dano]

Absolutely. I think the company will be fine, and I think you’ll be fine with the niche you’ve carved out for yourself. However, I’m not so sure that the guys who are used to making $30 an hour and $45 an hour with overtime will be.

That's a small percentage of the company, most of whom have been with Express a very long time. If they've been there long enough to be at that pay rate and the retirement plan that comes with it, and their world will come crumbling down because they'd don't get as much OT... they're losers.

 

[59 Dano]

The entire package delivery business is heavily dependent on discretionary spending and given the unlikelihood of a complete return to a full throttle economy anytime soon , a painful adjustment for the entire industry may only be weeks away especially if Washington decides that the sooner or later the economy for better or worse will have to find a way to stand on it's own.

Maybe you didn't know this (not being in this industry and all) but the package delivery business is experiencing unprecedented levels of volume right now.

 

[59 Dano]

I think putting all the topped out drivers out to roost is Fat Freddy's game plan for Express. One of my managers didn't elaborate on the nature of coming changes except that we'd be shifting a lot of our residentials to Ground. What he did say was that the guys who are used to making 10 hours a day are "going to feel it". All of those step progression papers they had hanging up in the break room and checkout room are long in the trash. It seems that the plan is to make conditions so intolerable for topped out drivers that they willingly retire, only to be replaced by a 22 year old making peanuts. What about the mid-career drivers who are making $24 an hour and were planning on sticking it out until they were topped out? Welp. That day is never coming, so you can make your $24 an hour for the rest of your career or you can find another job and be replaced by a 22 year old making peanuts. Did anyone actually come out and say this yet? Of course not, but if you read between the lines, it really looks like that's where their heads are, and I don't know why people keep saying "it'll never happen to us" as if they somehow have immunity or recourse against the company's whims.

The syllabus for MF 101.

 

[bacha29]

Maybe you didn't know this (not being in this industry and all) but the package delivery business is experiencing unprecedented levels of volume right now.

Right. And what is the source of that growth in a COVID 19 economy?.........Government stimulus which will begin to wind down at the end of July and perhaps an Express shipping option that is clearly becoming too expensive to utilize?
Needing returns at a time when Fat Freddy had scores of planes pushed off to the side of the runway all over the world he up and decides to throw Smartpost as well as every other box he can throw over to Ground thrown over to Ground . Finding enough people willing to run those hubs and terminals then became a facility management problem that requires a facility management solution. And finding enough people willing to go out and risk getting their heads blown of for scraps and peanuts became a contractor problem that required a contractor solution.

Of course you'll have a very fortunate few like bbsam and iwbf who just happen to be in an area that has large enough population to draw from but judging by the desperate facility and contractor pleas posted on the job boards they are truly in the minority.

Things will no doubt settle down in the next few weeks and you might even find a few places looking for boxes. Could it be due to the running out of government stimulus money..........or perhaps in today's failure is not an option shipping world shippers seeing Ground's failures and shortcomings they decide that Ground is no longer a cheap option they can afford to use?.........We'll see.

 

[AB831]

There's been a lot of talk about this. Basically the plan is to reduce the number of daily flights to reduce costs. There has to be scale to make it work so past efforts of single markets or districts would not necessarily be indicative of what to expect. Broadly speaking, SO/ES would have a sunrise sort and be trucked rather than flown. This will increase costs at the station level because it will require a second sort to process that freight and get it delivered by the commit. The intent would be that cost is more than offset by reducing flights.

Whether or not this ultimately reduces OT or pushes tenured couriers to mid-day is TBD. Just how much box freight would come through those affected markets is not accurately identified. The west would not be impacted by this due to distance to the hubs. It could move to OAKH, LAX, or ONT in the future, but it would never be on the same scale and may not happen at all. FedEx is a better job west of the Rockies than east.

That being said, turnover costs money. There is a healthy amount of churn with retirements, people that should be terminated, and promotions. Once you get past that amount - it varies by company/industry then it makes sense to retain employees. I'd expect to see wage increases in most normal environments. The bottom is rising with $15/hr jobs at Target, etc and FedEx will need to recruit and retain talent.

I do think pursuing something professionally is great. It's my understanding you're in DMV. Teacher pay there is good for tenured teachers. I know that's not true everywhere, but it is very reasonable to expect 90K+ with a MA/MEd in that area. I have friends that teach in MD with and English degree that do very well. Also, if something happened you could teach elsewhere and locate in a well-paying area. If you make 85K+ at FedEx and lose that job it might not be so easily replaced.

Thank you for your insight. That was very helpful.

 

[59 Dano]

Right. And what is the source of that growth in a COVID 19 economy?.........Government stimulus which will begin to wind down at the end of July and perhaps an Express shipping option that is clearly becoming too expensive to utilize?
Needing returns at a time when Fat Freddy had scores of planes pushed off to the side of the runway all over the world he up and decides to throw Smartpost as well as every other box he can throw over to Ground thrown over to Ground . Finding enough people willing to run those hubs and terminals then became a facility management problem that requires a facility management solution. And finding enough people willing to go out and risk getting their heads blown of for scraps and peanuts became a contractor problem that required a contractor solution.

Of course you'll have a very fortunate few like bbsam and iwbf who just happen to be in an area that has large enough population to draw from but judging by the desperate facility and contractor pleas posted on the job boards they are truly in the minority.

Things will no doubt settle down in the next few weeks and you might even find a few places looking for boxes. Could it be due to the running out of government stimulus money..........or perhaps in today's failure is not an option shipping world shippers seeing Ground's failures and shortcomings they decide that Ground is no longer a cheap option they can afford to use?.........We'll see.

The longer your answers, the wronger they are.

 

[AB831]

The longer your answers, the wronger they are.

Then refute him.