Non Union Upsers In Right To Work States

[Catatonic]

I grew up in New York and now live in the ("dirty") south so I am well aware of the cultural and union divides that exist in a RTW state and the northeast. Huge difference. I do agree that employee safety is an oxymoron at UPS (they give us the answers to the safety quizzes) and there is harassment if you tolerate it.

I strongly disagree we are not represented - my steward has always had my back as has the BA anytime there has been an issue. A steward volunteers their time (in my understanding) so I don't expect them to be at the gate like a greeter to welcome me daily - I need to seek them out if I need them and don't expect to talk to them unless I have a question or problem. And I always thank them for their time.

There is a difference between having representation present (non-union) and being represented (union member), you're at management's mercy, IMO, if you're not a member and wind up in their cross hairs. Your union dues are trivial when you look at the expense of hiring a labor attorney if you only value membership for saving your skin. Our benefits, 401K, pension, and pay is due to organized labor - try a big box retailer on for size if you don't see the value of membership.

If you are not in the Union, management cuts you slack big time.
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It's not quite DOUBLE STANDARDS but it's at least ONE AND A HALF STANDARDS.

 

[Catatonic]

That's too bad. Our BA is awesome, a great, honest guy. He actually takes time and goes into trailers, walks down the sort aisle and shoots the terds with everyone for a few minutes while we're working. Genuinely a great guy. Our stewards are the same.

I don't understand how some people think we would have what we have right now without the teamsters.

I don't know about Teamsters but Union anyway. Teamsters are such pushovers these days.

 

[balland chain]

The Unions here in the south are known for being weak.. Unions up north would not take the crap the UPS dishes out here.. I HAVE spoken to other feeder drivers from up north and they are shocked at the stories I tell them.. I am not embellishing the story, I am telling them exactly what has happened .. One reason for the youngsters to not join the union, save your money that you would spend on dues and put it in savings, and if something happens the union may trade your grievance to keep another driver from getting fired.. You could sue the union for that, failing to represent. If you work by the methods,,and MGMT fires you, use the money you set aside, and use it to retain an attorney. If you are not here in the south, you wold not understand.. It really is bad here.. I am not condoning that workers not join the union, just letting them know what to expect..

 

[Catatonic]

What two parties are you talking about? And what have they agreed to give these scabs? I assure you, the teamsters have not agreed to negotiate on these deadbeats behalf.
No reason they should have anything equal to what we have.
Convince me that it's fair for Scabby McScabscum to get what we have fought so hard for?

Fair? I haven't heard that since high school.
Man, that brings back such fun memories.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

So why not join the union? It's the right to work for less not forced to work for less. How long have you been at UPS? Explain how it is different in the dirty south then any other place. Here is your chance to explain the reason to not join the teamsters.

First off, I pay dues even though I don't have to.

I think most stewards will agree if an employee doesn't join when they start, they probably won't ever join. If you show up to work on time everyday and don't talk ****e to your supervisor, why do you need the union... you've gotten by fine without them so far, so when you start getting the benefits whats the point of joining? I know we would all be better off if everyone joined but that's just not gonna happen, the politicians who passed the right to work laws know this; weakening unions was the entire point.

How is it different here? People who file have a target on their back all day every day. They WILL fire you. They will find a reason. Yes, you may get your job back, but in the long run its just not worth it. You're not gonna change the world by standing up for your rights, all you will get is a target on your back. I don't like it but this is the reality down here. You pick your battles, take your paycheck, and try and pay the bills.

 

[cynic]

First off, I pay dues even though I don't have to.

I think most stewards will agree if an employee doesn't join when they start, they probably won't ever join. If you show up to work on time everyday and don't talk ****e to your supervisor, why do you need the union... you've gotten by fine without them so far, so when you start getting the benefits whats the point of joining? I know we would all be better off if everyone joined but that's just not gonna happen, the politicians who passed the right to work laws know this; weakening unions was the entire point.

How is it different here? People who file have a target on their back all day every day. They WILL fire you. They will find a reason. Yes, you may get your job back, but in the long run its just not worth it. You're not gonna change the world by standing up for your rights, all you will get is a target on your back. I don't like it but this is the reality down here. You pick your battles, take your paycheck, and try and pay the bills.

They must be really bad shots because I'm still filing grievances and working there with my loud New York mouth in the south!!

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

They must be really bad shots because I'm still filing grievances and working there with my loud New York mouth in the south!!

This is probably the only forum I have ever been on that allows multiple usernames for one IP address. I have no problem with freedom of speech but no one deserves 14 voices. Maybe I'm just paranoid I dunno.

 

[kingOFchester]

I do not have a problem with people exercising their right not to join the Union in right to work states. However, they should get no representation. No pension or anything else that is negotiated by the Union.

The majority voted for the elected law makers, just as the majority has voted for our Master. This is how a democratic system works. I may disagree with the majority, but I accept the fact that at times I will be in the minority.

 

[RealPerson]

I do not have a problem with people exercising their right not to join the Union in right to work states. However, they should get no representation. No pension or anything else that is negotiated by the Union.

The majority vote for the elected law makers, just as the majority has voted for our Master. This is how a democratic system works. I may disagree with the majority, but I accept the fact that at times I will be in the minority.

If you read what people are posting, some are not getting the representation now.

Also, Union dues have Nothing to do with Health insurance or Pension.

 

[kingOFchester]

If you read what people are posting, some are not getting the representation now.

Also, Union dues have Nothing to do with Health insurance or Pension.

They are negotiated by our Union. My dues pay for those negotiations.

 

[Wally]

Perhaps there is some beauty in the picture that has not yet been revealed?

Would it not be pure genius if the union administrated plans were to eventually become free to "members only"? And have "non-member" rates??

Interesting idea. Negotiate the contract allowing the union to subsidize the cost to its members, non members would be required to pay the difference, service fee if you will, lets say, the yearly cost of union dues. Union dues are tax deductible, service fees are not.

 

[stink219]

You're not gonna change the world by standing up for your rights, all you will get is a target on your back.

Read a labor history book. Your wrong on this one.

 

[104Feeder]

Ever go up to a Teamster and offer them the opportunity to start their own business? Try it and see how you get shot down every time. They make more money without taking any risk or having to think. Freeloaders are the same, whether they are in the Union or a scab.

Huh, I guess the Teamster Package, Feeder, & Hub workers I work with must be lying about their own businesses, doing things like selling real estate, firearms dealer, a cement & excavation company, boat repair, computer repair & network tech, screen printing, legal practice, commodities broker, barber, pool cleaning service, and auto repair to name a few. Some are even husband/wife owned ventures where both work at UPS.

Nice try but I guess you were in that cubicle just a tad too long.

 

[RealPerson]

They are negotiated by our Union. My dues pay for those negotiations.

Central States Pension -- Seen what happened to that?

Current TA - Health care for 140,000 members, and well current members already in Central?

Might want to get a refund!!!!

 

[104Feeder]

And you think that giving up on them and badgering them will change their mind?
I never thought anyone would ever have the audacity to compare people that work just as hard (at the very least) as they do to people that actually do take money for nothing. This site has reached an all time low

The die hards on this site always say that people shouldn't work at UPS if they don't want to join the union. Well, fine....then I say in right to work states if you don't want to work in a shop with non union workers then go elsewhere. Oh snap! I guess that little dose of the union thug's own medicine won't sit well with some. LOL!

Do they? Considering that every scab I've ever worked with have always been the ones to break as many of the rules and take every shortcut they could get away with I tend to disagree. It's usually the scab that blew off their pre-trip, faked customer signatures, DR'd packages with signature required stickers, seemed to have a bulkhead door stuck in the open position, ignored speed limits, let customers take a COD package & pay later, worked through their meals so they could sneak into the building before they were called to help out other drivers & never seemed to pull their send-agains or clerical packages. Same game in Feeders too.

I'm guessing you don't work in a RTW State or you would feel differently. Here in AZ we have barely half our bargaining unit as members even though Andy has busted his ass getting our Local way more clout than we deserve both Regionally & Nationally. It's only through his preservation of our Maintenance of Benefits clauses that we aren't getting Teamcare shoved down our throats. Only a little over 800 members could even be bothered to vote, a sad showing indeed. You would think with that issue on the line, that so many seem to be concerned about, that membership would spike so they could have their say but that doesn't seem to be the case. Someday the pendulum will swing and these non-members will get what they deserve and I will point to our contracts in the last two decades & say "don't you wish you had been a member?".

 

[104Feeder]

I am in the Union in a right to work state.. During a 2:45 grilling from my manager, because I had a urinary tract infection and had to pull over 4 time on the feeder run I was doing. My manager gave me a choice, first, your fired, or you can write up a statement that you would do an honest job and keep your job.. My urologist had scheduled a test to go in and check my bladder to make sure I did not have bladder cancer so I had to sign that damn statement because I HAD to have insurance in case I was in need of a surgery.. My manager, when I tried to explain said " I dont want to hear your personal problems." Additionally, I was told I had to punch out every time I used the restroom.. Yeah,,, I was the only one out of a building of over 400 employees who had to punch out to pee.

I called my BA, and his words were, well you better do it. What kind of representation is that??? The shop steward said not one word, nada. He only said if I did not write that statement I would be fired..

I can understand why some people get out of the union. When a manager CLEARLY discriminates against a person and they sit idle, why pay ?? The union failed me.

I inturn retained an attorney, spent 5K in legal fees so my attorney could hash this out with the Corporate attorneys.. 2 Months later, all of a sudden , I no longer had to punch out to pee. Did I get my back pay for all the times I punched out to pee. HELL NO..

SOME UNION officials actually stand up for the members, others cower down to the MGMT at UPS...

To this day, I am in the union, and I am still disgusted with the actions of my BA.

I'm sorry your BA & Steward failed you. A simple call to OSHA would have fixed your problem (if it was within the last 6 months you should call now). You would have been protected under the STAA.

There was a time where we had money here to educate Stewards about avenues such as these, but I haven't seen that in a long time. The main problem is our Local has been in a long drawn out fight over former America West airlines & it's current integration. As you know, there is no agency fee requirement in RTW States which further puts a drag on finances, and that is the true focus of RTW laws. There is no special training required to be a Shop Steward or Business Agent, just a motivation to stick with those thankless jobs.

 

[anonymous6]

it breaks my heart that the men and women who bled and died for you in this and other unions may have done so in vain. people should have the decency to respect these sacrifices .

 

[Notcool]

Im in a right to work state. Didn't join the union until my fifth year. Going on 7 now and thinking of getting out. Never needed them ever plus why pay dues? less money in my pocket and at the end of the day that's all that matters. Union dues take away raises. You get a raise your dues go up.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

And you think that giving up on them and badgering them will change their mind?
I never thought anyone would ever have the audacity to compare people that work just as hard (at the very least) as they do to people that actually do take money for nothing. This site has reached an all time low

The die hards on this site always say that people shouldn't work at UPS if they don't want to join the union. Well, fine....then I say in right to work states if you don't want to work in a shop with non union workers then go elsewhere. Oh snap! I guess that little dose of the union thug's own medicine won't sit well with some. LOL!

Do they? Considering that every scab I've ever worked with have always been the ones to break as many of the rules and take every shortcut they could get away with I tend to disagree. It's usually the scab that blew off their pre-trip, faked customer signatures, DR'd packages with signature required stickers, seemed to have a bulkhead door stuck in the open position, ignored speed limits, let customers take a COD package & pay later, worked through their meals so they could sneak into the building before they were called to help out other drivers & never seemed to pull their send-agains or clerical packages. Same game in Feeders too.

I'm guessing you don't work in a RTW State or you would feel differently. Here in AZ we have barely half our bargaining unit as members even though Andy has busted his ass getting our Local way more clout than we deserve both Regionally & Nationally. It's only through his preservation of our Maintenance of Benefits clauses that we aren't getting Teamcare shoved down our throats. Only a little over 800 members could even be bothered to vote, a sad showing indeed. You would think with that issue on the line, that so many seem to be concerned about, that membership would spike so they could have their say but that doesn't seem to be the case. Someday the pendulum will swing and these non-members will get what they deserve and I will point to our contracts in the last two decades & say "don't you wish you had been a member?".

I am in a RTW state. Our center is around 50/50 union to non union in the full-time ranks and maybe 30% or less part-time. I wish it was 100% across the board. We have gained a few here and there and I can tell you that it helped that the rest of us that are members refrained from being pushy name calling jerks.

Our center is the polar opposite of what you described in yours when it comes to people faking signatures, skipping pretrips, etc.. It's the die hards here. They are also the ones that violate their own contract the most. Working through vacation weeks that someone else could have picked for example. There are exceptions but most of our drivers that don't pay dues are generaly the ones that seem to have more respect for the contract in that regard. They are also mostly straight as an arrow and fly under the radar. Many of them used to be members and their reasons for withdrawing would warrant a whole new thread.

Most of our drivers are fed up with the increasingly late hours and some of us are trying to use it as an opportunity to sway the non members into joining. Our problem isn't non members. One of the problems is everyone (whether they are members or not) that is afraid of filing out of fear of harassment or retaliation. And the BIGGEST problem we have here is greedy drivers. They are a dispatcher that's chasing a stops per car metric's wet dream and the rest of us are expected to follow suite.

 

[Lineandinitial]

I like the aluminum bat thing. Very classy. Reminds me of a 1930's movie "where brothers gave their blood and died for the cause". I think they were using pick handles though