Non Union Upsers In Right To Work States

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
same as shoplifters. getting something and not paying for it.

Totally agreed, for everyone except first-year PTers.

They can't be shoplifting, or getting something and not paying for it, because they aren't getting anything. As far as I'm concerned, it's not a union job until you get benefits. Those guys get a total pass. The rest, and especially the full-timers, screw 'em if they don't join.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Ever go up to a Teamster and offer them the opportunity to start their own business? Try it and see how you get shot down every time. They make more money without taking any risk or having to think. Freeloaders are the same, whether they are in the Union or a scab. :raspberry:

Actually, I would argue that perhaps UPS Teamsters have more side businesses then most companies workforce. It may be because a lot of people came to UPS for benefits on a part time basis and soon learned that they could bring home a nice paycheck plus keep their business. I know a lot of drivers that have businesses. Contractor, roofer, painter and-multi property landlord to name a few. I am also one who has his own business. Yes, it is very hard to work our schedules and still run a business. The average American worker works around 44 hours a week. With drivers working well over that on average, it speaks highly of those who juggle driving, family and a business.
 

brown_trousers

Well-Known Member


Totally agreed, for everyone except first-year PTers.

They can't be shoplifting, or getting something and not paying for it, because they aren't getting anything. As far as I'm concerned, it's not a union job until you get benefits. Those guys get a total pass. The rest, and especially the full-timers, screw 'em if they don't join.

Thats a good point! Its kind of hard to argue that the new guy is a freeloader and recieving union wages if he makes less than a mcdonalds worker.
 

104Feeder

Phoenix Feeder
I am in a RTW state. Our center is around 50/50 union to non union in the full-time ranks and maybe 30% or less part-time. I wish it was 100% across the board. We have gained a few here and there and I can tell you that it helped that the rest of us that are members refrained from being pushy name calling jerks.

Our center is the polar opposite of what you described in yours when it comes to people faking signatures, skipping pretrips, etc.. It's the die hards here. They are also the ones that violate their own contract the most. Working through vacation weeks that someone else could have picked for example. There are exceptions but most of our drivers that don't pay dues are generaly the ones that seem to have more respect for the contract in that regard. They are also mostly straight as an arrow and fly under the radar. Many of them used to be members and their reasons for withdrawing would warrant a whole new thread.

Most of our drivers are fed up with the increasingly late hours and some of us are trying to use it as an opportunity to sway the non members into joining. Our problem isn't non members. One of the problems is everyone (whether they are members or not) that is afraid of filing out of fear of harassment or retaliation. And the BIGGEST problem we have here is greedy drivers. They are a dispatcher that's chasing a stops per car metric's wet dream and the rest of us are expected to follow suite.

Ostracism is a powerful tool, one that I don't feel we use enough in punishing non-members. Most of the actual picket-line-crossing scabs at my local faced very little retribution at my hub in the way of ostracism so they happily continue to feed like a parasite on our Local. A few came up later and apologized to me personally for crossing, and have been good members since. If those that crossed or got out were doing so out of some principled stance that they could explain to me I would respect that but the vast majority simply want to get something for free (and I find it ironic when they consider themselves die-hard conservatives railing against welfare and the entitlement mentality).

I have even less respect for those that I spent countless hours fighting Management to get their day reduced successfully in the time way before today's 9.5 language & triple time only to see them get out because they didn't like how the layoffs went during the Great Recession. That's pure greed & entitlement and shows what lack of character they truly have. I really can't understand how someone could go their whole career here without being a member then collect that Teamster pension check for nearly $60k if they were retiring today. I'd be fine with them not being members if the Company had to make contributions for them but they weren't allowed to collect any pension payments.

It was mentioned before that with our healthcare changing to a Teamster plan that our Local could require everyone to come to the hall to sign up for their healthcare, that there is no obligation for us to conduct enrollment by mail or internet. I'd like to see these non-members show up and do that.

Our dues are $22.50 per week, less than one hours work. Just using the legal plan once would pay you back everything you've ever paid in dues here.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Ostracism is a powerful tool, one that I don't feel we use enough in punishing non-members. Most of the actual picket-line-crossing scabs at my local faced very little retribution at my hub in the way of ostracism so they happily continue to feed like a parasite on our Local. A few came up later and apologized to me personally for crossing, and have been good members since. If those that crossed or got out were doing so out of some principled stance that they could explain to me I would respect that but the vast majority simply want to get something for free (and I find it ironic when they consider themselves die-hard conservatives railing against welfare and the entitlement mentality).

I have even less respect for those that I spent countless hours fighting Management to get their day reduced successfully in the time way before today's 9.5 language & triple time only to see them get out because they didn't like how the layoffs went during the Great Recession. That's pure greed & entitlement and shows what lack of character they truly have. I really can't understand how someone could go their whole career here without being a member then collect that Teamster pension check for nearly $60k if they were retiring today. I'd be fine with them not being members if the Company had to make contributions for them but they weren't allowed to collect any pension payments.

It was mentioned before that with our healthcare changing to a Teamster plan that our Local could require everyone to come to the hall to sign up for their healthcare, that there is no obligation for us to conduct enrollment by mail or internet. I'd like to see these non-members show up and do that.

Our dues are $22.50 per week, less than one hours work. Just using the legal plan once would pay you back everything you've ever paid in dues here.

I was hired shortly after the strike but I've heard plenty of stories. The few that crossed the picket line here were union members. Others withdrew from the union because they were mad about the strike but didn't cross. Most have rejoined since then. They are the same bunch that only follow the parts of the contract that benefit them and ignore the rest of it. Just because they think they can. They have the attitude that 2.5 hours/month for dues+high seniority= pass to do anything. They are also the same ones that bitch and whine about UPS "stealing our time" (time study), yet, like I mentioned before, are the same ones that run, skip their lunches, cut corners, etc. etc.. They are also the one's that fall into the category of the stereotypical union worker. You know....calls in once a week. Has been deservingly fired multiple times but still at UPS. Only works when they feel like it. They lay down on the job when they don't get exactly what they want. Its the classic "It my world and the rest of you are just in it" mentality. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if those guys tried to bully the non members into joining they'd really get laughed at. No one really respects them. I'm not saying it's like this in every center but I have to ask.....who is most people going to accept advice about joining a union from? A dirtbag employee that pays dues or an approachable, respectful employee that does their job right and pays dues? I was convinced by the latter.
 

iruhnman630

Well-Known Member
Im in a right to work state. Didn't join the union until my fifth year. Going on 7 now and thinking of getting out. Never needed them ever plus why pay dues? less money in my pocket and at the end of the day that's all that matters. Union dues take away raises. You get a raise your dues go up.
I support the basic principle of right to work, but if given the choice I will definitely stay in the union as should you, because at some point I guarantee we all find ourselves in a situation where we need them.
 

brown_trousers

Well-Known Member
You're not gonna change the world by standing up for your rights, all you will get is a target on your back.

Read a labor history book. Your wrong on this one.

Its true that standing up for those rights has proven successful in the past. Its also worth mentioning that it doesnt come without sacrifice and some casualties along the way. Many unions have been defeated standing up for those rights, along with many people losing their career and/or being laid-off.

Just like starting a war can bring about good change, it doesnt mean we should just jump into it without first considering all the consequences that can result from it.
 

DriveInDriveOut

Inordinately Right
Its true that standing up for those rights has proven successful in the past. Its also worth mentioning that it doesnt come without sacrifice and some casualties along the way. Many unions have been defeated standing up for those rights, along with many people losing their career and/or being laid-off.

Just like starting a war can bring about good change, it doesnt mean we should just jump into it without first considering all the consequences that can result from it.

Well said. Everyone has their limits and there will eventually come a time when you have to fight/file. All I was saying is you have to pick your battles.

Everything comes with a cost and you have to make sure ahead of time you are willing to pay the price for it. Here in the South you have to realize that there is a SCAB ready to close every open wound UPS management deals out to you.
 

over10.5

Well-Known Member
We have a lot of union hating republican drivers in my center. They live in a world where in their minds they would be making the same amount of money and benefits if they were working at non-union FedEx. Facts do not matter to these morons.
 

Caspaz51

New Member
I just had to post on this.....i can understand the anger with "Scabs' and Freeloaders..I myself work in a right to work state, I've been at UPS for almost 3 years now..In my hub, there is no effort by the stewards to get PTers into the Union.. in three years i've never spoken to a steward, let alone had one approach me to join.. I've asked a steward three times for an union application.. all three times i got one response.. "I don't have one"...Never did they say "well I'll get you one tomorrow" .. Never did they ask me for my name..nothing!.. it seems to me that the representatives in my hub are in Management's back pocket.. I've heard full-timers complain that the stewards, get two easy jobs on their combos......bag racking/small sort.. you know after the third time...I was like to hell with it, if it was really important to them for me to join they would of let me have a card.. I've spoken to union members in my hub and they've told me that it isn't worth it to join with what I'm making a week.. (180) Never have I heard the word "Scab" Out of anybody's mouth in my hub..
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
We have a lot of union hating republican drivers in my center. They live in a world where in their minds they would be making the same amount of money and benefits if they were working at non-union FedEx. Facts do not matter to these morons.

In my center itsmostly the democrats that cause all if the problems. In fact, most if the people I described in my two previous posts are democrats.
 

104Feeder

Phoenix Feeder
I just had to post on this.....i can understand the anger with "Scabs' and Freeloaders..I myself work in a right to work state, I've been at UPS for almost 3 years now..In my hub, there is no effort by the stewards to get PTers into the Union.. in three years i've never spoken to a steward, let alone had one approach me to join.. I've asked a steward three times for an union application.. all three times i got one response.. "I don't have one"...Never did they say "well I'll get you one tomorrow" .. Never did they ask me for my name..nothing!.. it seems to me that the representatives in my hub are in Management's back pocket.. I've heard full-timers complain that the stewards, get two easy jobs on their combos......bag racking/small sort.. you know after the third time...I was like to hell with it, if it was really important to them for me to join they would of let me have a card.. I've spoken to union members in my hub and they've told me that it isn't worth it to join with what I'm making a week.. (180) Never have I heard the word "Scab" Out of anybody's mouth in my hub..


How about going down to your Union hall and getting an application there? Then ask for a copy of the Contract & Bylaws so you can find out the process for having a Steward's election in your hub. Sounds like you would be the perfect candidate to replace the Stewards you have now.
 

iruhnman630

Well-Known Member
We have a lot of union hating republican drivers in my center. They live in a world where in their minds they would be making the same amount of money and benefits if they were working at non-union FedEx. Facts do not matter to these morons.
Those of us on the conservative side of the political spectrum recognize that there are more factors that affect our livelihood than just those directly affecting the workplace. Being called an unkind name won't change that.
 

RealPerson

Well-Known Member
How about going down to your Union hall and getting an application there? Then ask for a copy of the Contract & Bylaws so you can find out the process for having a Steward's election in your hub. Sounds like you would be the perfect candidate to replace the Stewards you have now.

LOL what a Joke.......
 
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anonymous6

Guest
what's really sad is that the people who won't join the union but love the bennies feel that they are not doing anything wrong. is this a generational thing? because I don't think anyone from my Dad's generation would even think of not joining the union without feeling guilty about it.

it would be interesting to know the average age of the shoplifter/freeloader.
 

PiedmontSteward

RTW-4-Less
what's really sad is that the people who won't join the union but love the bennies feel that they are not doing anything wrong. is this a generational thing? because I don't think anyone from my Dad's generation would even think of not joining the union without feeling guilty about it.

it would be interesting to know the average age of the shoplifter/freeloader.

RTW -- generationally - is a fairly new phenomenon. The Taft-Harley Act (allowing individual states to pass RTW laws) passed in 1947. I think the first RTW state under the Taft-Harley act was Arkansas in the same year and then it spread.
 

brown_trousers

Well-Known Member
what's really sad is that the people who won't join the union but love the bennies feel that they are not doing anything wrong. is this a generational thing? because I don't think anyone from my Dad's generation would even think of not joining the union without feeling guilty about it.

it would be interesting to know the average age of the shoplifter/freeloader.

From the perspective of a new hire in a RTW state. They are taking a job at minimum wage with no benefits, they would probably make more money working at taco bell. Union negotiated benefits dont kick in until after a year. Its hard for me to consider a new hire freeloading during his first year as there are no appreciable union benefits
 
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