Do you completely miss the overwhelmingly ridiculous amount of money given to the "job creators"? Your hatred of those less fortunate is staggering in a way I could only imagine a Montgomery Burns could hate.
Obama care
- Thread starter bigbird00
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Do you completely miss the overwhelmingly ridiculous amount of money given to the "job creators"? Your hatred of those less fortunate is staggering in a way I could only imagine a Montgomery Burns could hate.
And this is the tried and true liberal way to marginalize someone. Get others to come down on me by saying I'm a hater. The best thing that can happen to a poor man is to give him a quality job that will allow him to take care of himself and his family with dignity.
My mother quit high school at 15 and married my father. They divorced when she was 28. We lived in two rooms of an unfinished house for 4 years before my dad got custody of us because the stress of working crap jobs 80 hrs a week to take care of us pretty much broke her. I had to wear the same pants for years as I grew, got teased for wearing "high waters" all the time. Used to sit in the principals office during lunch because she didn't have the money to give me. Didn't have money for air conditioning either which if you know Central Florida summers you know what a big deal that is. I spent two summers and weekends during the school year picking weeds in a large plant nursery for $1.00hr and used that money to buy food. I know what it means to be poor. I'm not sure if you do. Poor is risking your neck to cross a desert so that you can work stooped over in humid 97 degree heat picking crops so that you can provide for your family. I'm all for helping that man or woman get a helping hand to a better life. I'm not for them bringing their entire family and straining an already strained system. A guest worker program is sorely needed because most so called poor Americans aren't willing to break their backs anymore. Too many think that they are owed something without effort, and Democrat politicians are ready and willing to throw money at them in exchange for their votes. Yeah, I hate alright. I hate that this country was built from the ground up by hard working people only to be taken over by those who think it's their birthright to live the good life without earning it.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Which votes are you talking about? Because most of those workers in the fields can't vote. The reallity that most republicans will not admit is that those immigrant workers both legal and illegal are a big part of the economy. You are right about most Americans wouldn't do those jobs. At least not at that pay and working conditions. Truth is those people are being exploited while the owners of these big produce companies are getting richer. I live and work in a big agriculture area and can tell you these farm owners and produce companies aren't hurting one bit in this economy. It's a multi billion $ industry just in my area. Another harsh reality the republicans don't want to admit is these workers would not be here if the employers did not hire them. So who is really at fault here? These people are here to make a better life for themselves and their families which just about any American would want for themselves. No matter how hard you had it when you grew up doesn't compare to what these people had to go through with zero opportunity in their home country. So ask yourself what would you do if you were in their shoes? The worst thing we as Americans can do is be ignorant.
First off you completely misunderstood me. The votes I'm talking about are from Americans who are basically bribed to get their vote. I want good jobs for those Americans, a hand up, not a hand out. But I do believe in a safety net for those who need it.
As far as illegals are concerned as a courier I've not only worked in several places on the border but also have delivered to many feedlots, dairies, warehouses, and many other places that employ illegals. I personally have no problem with someone coming across the border to work to send money home. Most of the jobs they take wouldn't be taken by most Americans, and those jobs Americans would do they'd only do if they paid much more. One industry I do have a problem with is construction. Many American workers who have families and mortgages can't compete with illegals who'll work for substantially less.
I want that illegal worker to be able to come in under a guest worker program. I want him to have a ride waiting for him at a processing center, giving him proper documentation so that not only will he pay the proper taxes but if he works enough quarters he's eligible for Social Security. He should have company sponsored housing that's adequate and safe. I don't expect him to be paid $20hr but he should be paid fairly for the work done.
You should keep up with what's going on in Mexico. Mexico's economy is growing, and many who used to come north feel they have more opportunities in their own country given the U.S. economy. Central Americans north of Costa Rica have it much worse on average, but that being said there are still plenty of impoverished in Mexico.
On what basis do you think "most" Republicans feel this way or that way about any of this?
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
As far as construction goes I will say again, they would not come across the border if employers did not hire them. You can't have it all. You can't expect these people to work these non skilled, hard labor jobs for peanuts and not compete for other jobs. Either you crack down on these employers who knowingly hire and exploit these illegal immigrants. Or you accept the way the system is and understand the tradeoff. The fact is many " Americans" are profiting off this system.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Exactly. Many contractors head to Home Depot (or other designated gathering place for illegals) the first thing every morning to get their crew. Many illegals are actually skilled or semi-skilled in the construction trades as opposed to non-skilled. Many small businesses (GOP strongholds) take advantage of the discounted, under-the-table labor illegals provide. That's un-American, but they do it all the time. Hypocrisy?
I fix Fedex
Member
Did I miss something or did Obama give ridiculous money to Green Energy jobs just to see them all go bankrupt all the while putting a moratorium on gas and oil drilling (jobs that stay around and make taxpayers) basically eliminating those jobs?
With a guest worker program only companies who can demonstrate a need for workers i.e. most Americans won't do that job will be able to hire documented foreigners. Companies who try to circumvent the program will be fined and face possible criminal charges. Obviously right now if he can get to a location an illegal will take the best deal he can. The reality is that anywhere in this country you find hard, manual labor you'll probably find a Hispanic illegal doing it. They are essential to the economy, should have at least temporary residency status, and should be able to participate in the Social Security system since they are contributing to it. And if employers are providing housing under a guest worker program then they aren't exactly making peanuts at $9-$12hr.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Have you seen this " housing"? I have and it is not housing they are labor camps and the worst prisons in America have better living conditions. No matter how you feel about illegal immigrants, they are human beings and deserve to be treated as such especially in this country. And I don't think a guest labor program would work nor is it ethical. Either make these people legal residents and pay them fair wages and benefits or crack down on employers for hiring people without legal documentation and open these jobs to American citizens and legal residents. Then pay fair wages and benefits. Can you believe as of right now they are fighting for the same overtime rules that apply to just about every other industry. I mean this is 2012 not 1930.I guarantee that corporate America wants neither because it would totally change the dynamics of the economy and that would mean less profit for the rich.
And again, if there were a guest worker program, the employers would be responsible for providing adequate and safe housing, subject to fines and criminal charges if they don't. A guest worker program is absolutely ethical. The workers would no longer have to risk their lives sneaking into the country, they'd be provided transportation, and be eligible for Social Security provided they worked as many quarters as a citizen has to to qualify. Again, the employers would have to prove that they can't find enough workers through the usual channels, classifieds, temp agencies, etc. Of course American citizens should have first chance at any job but there are many Americans just won't do. Ever been in a slaughterhouse? Ever been on a feedlot with 37,000 head of cattle after a good rain? It sounds to me like you don't want a path for getting a job for illegals(who wouldn't be illegal under a guest worker program). And of course we need a path to citizenship for those already here. But the current situation with a porous border where people die and are at the mercy of their employers is unethical and unacceptable. And before people start throwing the hate word around they should take a look in the mirror.
One more point. You say corporate America wants neither due primarily to less profit. People are here complaining about their pay and benefits but it would mean much less profit and probably no profit at all if some here got their way. You can't on the one hand rail against the system and then turn around and say, well that group can't have that because it'll mean less profit for corporate America. The Emancipation Proclamation was in 1863 and yet the wealthy are finding ways to exploit very large groups for their benefit. Anyone who says we get pay and benefits needs to think about slaves getting food, clothing, and shelter from their masters. If labor is stripped of all the gains made in the last 100 years so that profits can be bigger, and pay is only adequate for food, clothing and shelter then we are getting dangerously close to justifying forced labor. We may have the right to quit but someday soon we may not or we will starve if we do. Hardly the egalitarian society we are supposed to be and I would think a black man would be especially sensitive to this.
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Goldilocks
Well-Known Member
Your right!! I think Hispanics are the 'new' target of rasicm in our country. Most Blacks these days have it made compared to the Hispanics trying to come to this country, the right way and making a living. Gotta say, they should come in THE RIGHT WAY....Not swimming across the Gauadalupe River. Also feel the Government needs to step up and make the Illigals who want to become American citizens serve in the military.
DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS
Well-Known Member
Sorry Goldi, but as a Texan you should know that if they are swimming across the Guadalupe, they are already here....and probably in an inner tube with another tied to them with a cooler full of cervesa's!...lol
You meant the Rio Grande....
Goldilocks
Well-Known Member
LOL, Your Right! Guess I was thinking or wishing I could be floating down the Guadalupe on an inner tube with a cold one around my neck...lol.....
DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS
Well-Known Member
This morning, yes. This afternoon, not so much...lol It got a little chilly, and the Guadalupe is pretty chilly as it is!..lol
As if you hopes it happens. Reminds me of the ever so holy televangelists, threatening us with impending doom! Such a wonderful holy message.
Now, now, surely you can do better than that. What I don't get is how some can be so informed about some things, and totally miss a huge problem that will impact their lives if not corrected. Oh wait, what am I saying, most of the Press is in the tank for Obama. They gloss over or totally omit anything that might cause him a problem. Trouble is they are supposed to be protecting us. From either side, no matter what turns up.
Goldilocks
Well-Known Member
I would like to know why suddenly the price of gas is dropping during the end of this election? Hmmm, makes me wonder.
Or why with the world's economy doing so badly and all the new oil sources that the price is so high to begin with? I wonder with all the new technology to get much higher mpg that the oil companies are colluding to get a higher price to offset the technology.
World demand? US on the verge of being the world LEADER in oil production? It's not like we are a member of OPEC.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Anyway....back to the topic on hand....just completed and sent in the certification for my son to stay on my insurance. He will be 26 on 5/3/13 so this is the last time I will have to do this certification. Thank you, Barack.
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