Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performance.

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Im with you that it shouldnt be a fireable offense. But do they have the right to any discipline if their methods or safety methods are not followed??

Yes but as we all know the discipline is not handed out evenly.

 

[paidover95]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Another reason I am glad I left and found a normal company to work for!!!!

 

[20_years_in]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

This is the NORM at UPS. You have 20 years in? Why are you so shocked and disgusted?

One stop at a time. Smile and wave when the DM is following you in a personal vehicle or rental. Wink at him, make him blush.

I do have 20 years in, and I am disgusted but not shocked. People should just do what is right: management and drivers should apply themselves for "A fair day's work for a fair day's pay". If a worker goes as fast as he can while maintaining the methods, the worker should not get fired.
In order to follow the methods, you have to WANT TO, KNOW HOW and I'm afraid, HAVE THE TIME TO DO SO. We have peak-type dispatches year round now, so coming up against that 12 hour maximum while not having any missed (including making service on all misroutes) makes for a lot of calls for help to the office. The OMS person will ask why a cover driver can do the same dispatch without getting help; the cover drivers hide the misroutes, have complaints called in for being rude (too much in a hurry), forge signatures, work through breaks, speed, leave bulk head door open, blow off pickups, etc. If management were REALLY concerned about safety and not "the numbers", they would look for safety violations from any and all drivers.
To UPS' credit, they do compensate us fairly.

 

[705red]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

I think that tourists24 is spot on, and that the company is using a discharge letter to scare him into working faster, but I don't think he will ever skip his lunch. I know that I don't work when I am on break, just like I don't goof off when I am on the clock.


Also, the news of his firing will send a message to all the other drivers: "Go faster or get fired. Meet our numbers or risk unemployment."

And the union getting the driver put back to work with all back pay and pension contribution will send a message to the company!

 

[cachsux]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Also, the news of his firing will send a message to all the other drivers: "Go faster or get fired. Meet our numbers or risk unemployment."

It`s standard operating procedure. They fire the company goofoff and everyone says "he had it coming" and go about their business. They fire one of the real workers and everyone says "if they`ll fire him I better hustle to keep them off my ass" and production increases.

 

[soberups]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Photocopies were definitely made. It was a printed email that the DM sent to his management team. It used the term "targeted" and "thin out the herd". Sounds like a cull, right?.

I doubt it was an "accident" that the letter got left out where the drivers could see it.

Most on-car and center-level managers are decent human beings who do understand what we go through out there. Given a choice, they wouldnt be out there spying on us and harassing us for production; but its not a choice they get to make. I suspect that the letter was "accidentally" left out in the hope that someone would see it, copy it, and that ultimately it would come around to bite the DM in the ass.

 

[soberups]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

This is a fair question. This does seem to be the path that UPS is pursuing. I wonder if anyone has yet to challenge the lopsided enforcement of methods infractions....

Here's how that crap has been dealt with where I work.

We had a driver with seven "working termination" letters for bogus "methods violations" that occurred during OJS rides.

At the center-level hearings that take place prior to the letters going to panel, our BA started with stop one on day one of the first OJS that led to the first warning letter of the first termination letter. He asked specific questions about every observation made during every stop of the OJS. If the infraction for a specific stop was "failure to walk at a brisk pace" then the sup was questioned as to exactly how many paces per second he observed the driver walking, what the street and sidewalk conditions were like, and the exact weight and dimensions of the package(s) being delivered. If the infraction was "failure to park closer to the stop" then the supervisor was questioned as to how many cars were in the parking lot, where they were parked, where their blind spots were, and the exact difference (in feet) between where the driver supposedly should have parked vs where he did park.

Obviously, this slowed the proceedings to a snails pace. A full year after the initial termination letter was written, they had only gotten thru one half of the first OJS that led to the initial warning letter. Since the termination wasnt for dishonesty, the driver continued working throughout; and since his methods were good and he was careful to document every delay and issue that he encountered, the company had nothing to go on and ultimately the letters were dropped. The running joke was that, at the glacial pace that the hearings were proceeding at, the termination meetings would still be occuring 10 years after the driver had retired if the company had not chosen to drop them.

Whats going on here isnt new. Its nothing more than the same old scam the company has been trying to run for decades. Its a numbers game; if the harassment and intimidation is ratcheded up to a certain level, a good percentage of the drivers will cave in and skip their lunches and breaks which is the company's entire goal in the first place. 10 skipped lunches= one route eliminated= bigger MIP bonuses for the managers running the scam. Its elementary school math, nothing more.

 

[20_years_in]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Whats going on here isnt new. Its nothing more than the same old scam the company has been trying to run for decades. Its a numbers game; if the harassment and intimidation is ratcheded up to a certain level, a good percentage of the drivers will cave in and skip their lunches and breaks which is the company's entire goal in the first place. 10 skipped lunches= one route eliminated= bigger MIP bonuses for the managers running the scam. Its elementary school math, nothing more.

I have to say I believe this comment hits the nail squarely on the head.
Thanks for all the replies, brothers and sisters. So, as an aging driver myself, I will have job security if I just do everything the right way (not be late to work, obviously not have illegal drugs in my system, obviously not steal, use all of the methods as I was taught, call in for help ASAP if overdispatched, etc.). I will bring a notebook to work every day to record delays and questionable management behavior.
BTW management does NOT like me because I do not show up early and work for free and I take all of my breaks. Also, I stand up for myself when they violate the contract and safety laws. You would think they would like an employee that follows the rules, the contract and the law. They SAY not to work on your breaks and they TOUT safety.
Finally, I have to confess that this is the third user name I have used on BC because I can't risk retaliation from management for posting stuff on the internet. Sorry to be disingenuous, but I have always been paranoid.

 

[804brown]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

And the union getting the driver put back to work with all back pay and pension contribution will send a message to the company!

You are right Red, but it should never get to this point. UPS management expect perfection from us and when we dont perform to that perfection standard we are persecuted for it and targeted. UPS these days stands for: Unattainable Perfection Standards!!

 

[iamupser]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Hopefully that driver has already filed a grievance. If not, he needs to do so immediately. He also needs to get a copy of the letter from upper management. I wouldn't rely on just the union to handle this matter. He has 180 days to file with EEOC but they will probably tell him he needs to exhaust the grievance process before their agency can take action.

He can file with the EEOC regardless of grievances, also I believe IF you are familiar with the situation, YOU can file on THEIR behalf... How strongly do you feel compelled to help OP?

http://www.eeoc.gov/employees/charge.cfm

...In addition, an individual, organization, or agency may file a charge on behalf of another person...

 

[bigblu 2 you]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

for those of you that have been with ups a while,just think back 10 or so years and envision a sup or center manager walk up to you at a stop and tell you they were taking you out of service for not using three points of contact.imagine this at a local,or panel level.now tell me what has changed?economy?union?you?me?ups?this next election and contract will be where changes are made.i am ashamed as a second generation teamster that this man has to even file on this.dont wait to see what ups comes up with next{the 500 safe methods part 2} as a tool under the guise of safety.and dont wait to see if the current slate will set back and allow them to ram it down our throats,they have and will.sorry for the rambling and anger but i have seen hard working men and women abused to achieve a unobtainable performance level and i know their numbers will only increase unless we jam it down their throats.

 

[pinky]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

you are only as strong as your members. If the drivers are afraid of management they are not going to do anything. They have to stick together. Not like the old days.

 

[Catatonic]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

for those of you that have been with ups a while,just think back 10 or so years and envision a sup or center manager walk up to you at a stop and tell you they were taking you out of service for not using three points of contact.

I think it is more like 14 years ago before August 1997.

 

[toonertoo]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

BTW management does NOT like me because I do not show up early and work for free and I take all of my breaks. Also, I stand up for myself when they violate the contract and safety laws. You would think they would like an employee that follows the rules, the contract and the law. They SAY not to work on your breaks and they TOUT safety.
Finally, I have to confess that this is the third user name I have used on BC because I can't risk retaliation from management for posting stuff on the internet. Sorry to be disingenuous, but I have always been paranoid.

Paranoia never hurt anyone. Geez maybe I should change my pic and profile so no one knows who I am, LOL. Nah I dont care. I never lie about anything, and if the truth stands tall, too bad for anyone who does not like what I say. They hate me anyways (coz Im beautiful), LOL

 

[20_years_in]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

This is my reply to the question posed to me by "iamupser", as to whether or not it is possible that I may file on his behalf:

We have an excellent Business Agent with our Local Teamster's Office. I believe that he will represent the driver very well.
Everybody expects nothing to come of this. I expect it is the tip of the iceberg with our DM wanting to "target" and "thin out the herd" (his words, in writing!) the drivers that run 2.00 hours or more over allowed.
Our center was recently reported to a major Federal Agency and it definitely did not go well for the management team, so they will be treading carefully.

 

[20_years_in]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

He can file with the EEOC regardless of grievances, also I believe IF you are familiar with the situation, YOU can file on THEIR behalf... How strongly do you feel compelled to help OP?

http://www.eeoc.gov/employees/charge.cfm

...In addition, an individual, organization, or agency may file a charge on behalf of another person...

My reply to this is the post just before this post. Doh!

 

[cino321]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

So yesterday (they always do this on a Friday), one of our high seniority drivers was given a working discharge for "not using 3 points of contact" and "improper methods of loading a handtruck". This driver has about 23 years seniority and he is about 53 years old. He does have sort of a slow pace and he generally runs about 2 hours over allowed. Our District Manager sent a letter to his CMs and Onroads that stated that drivers who ran 2 hours over or more would be targeted and "thinned out". Our center manager accidentally left this letter out in the open and some drivers read it and I believe that some photocopies were made.
I am sure that this driver will get his job back, but I am concerned that management may be committing age discrimination under the guise of production standards and failure to follow methods. Management will go out and videotape the drivers who run over allowed and start progressive discipline for things such as not using 3 points of contact, grabbing straps, lifting incorrectly or not using hazard lights (flashers). The runners and gunners, so to speak, are given an "Atta boy" and left alone even though everybody knows that they run, jump out of the truck, drive with the bulkhead door open and work through their breaks. I know that the world isn't fair, but age discrimination is illegal.
So us drivers should just do every single thing the correct way every single time, even if it means not being able to finish within 12 hours (HUGE dispatches in our center)? This seems like it would cause someone to run over allowed even more and cause the driver to be even more of a target. Nobody can be perfect all of the time.
I understand that management and other stockholders want value for their investment dollar, but isn't UPS stock up 65% or so in the last 12 months? Is running the workers into the ground a sound long term financial plan?
When I first started driving about 15 years ago, a successful day was not having and accident or an injury or any service failures. Now we have to meet their optimistic SPORH metric AND never, ever fail to use three points of contact or load a handtruck improperly?

Where is this? I don't want to know the center, just tell me the state I'm curious.

 

[20_years_in]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

Where is this? I don't want to know the center, just tell me the state I'm curious.

I can neither confirm nor deny that it is in the Bay Area, Northern California

 

[over9five]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

.... They hate me anyways (coz Im beautiful), LOL

+1000. Seen the news clip.

 

[toonertoo]

Re: Older driver fired for "not using 3 points of contact", but really for performanc

+1000. Seen the news clip.

Over you are soo fos. Love ya