Populist Indeed!

BrownArmy

Well-Known Member
Oh, but that just accentuates my point. Science could reclaim 99.5% of the win but would rather stand around saying, "We aren't gonna be told what to do by a bunch of Bible thumpers!"

And the compromise is what? Leaving out a conclusion and building up the analytical mind so that it can itself find its way to said conclusion? So that young minds are taught to reason, analyze and form conclusions? That is a compromise?

That's the definition of winning for education.

Put yourself in the mind of a scientist.

A Greek philosopher proved that the earth was round a little bit ago, and some of us have argued the point ever since, strangely.

I understand arguing the point, if the discipline is religion, or philosophy, but to argue that the earth is flat is ridiculous (as an example).

In fact, the (almost) spherical nature of the earth is easily proven by math that most middle school students are fluent in, with experiments you can do with your child on a sunny summers' day, with little more equipment than a stick and semi-advanced geometry skills.

In terms of education, yes, we need our children to live in a fact-based world.

Our conclusions about those facts may vary, possibly, but putting 'creationism' and evolution into the curricula as if they were equitable seriously bums me out.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Put yourself in the mind of a scientist.

A Greek philosopher proved that the earth was round a little bit ago, and some of us have argued the point ever since, strangely.

I understand arguing the point, if the discipline is religion, or philosophy, but to argue that the earth is flat is ridiculous (as an example).

In fact, the (almost) spherical nature of the earth is easily proven by math that most middle school students are fluent in, with experiments you can do with your child on a sunny summers' day, with little more equipment than a stick and semi-advanced geometry skills.

In terms of education, yes, we need our children to live in a fact-based world.

Our conclusions about those facts may vary, possibly, but putting 'creationism' and evolution into the curricula as if they were equitable seriously bums me out.
SMH

The other reason to take my advice is because the rightwing in this country spent the last 30 years getting elected to school boards, legislators and now the president.
 

DriveInDriveOut

Inordinately Right
SMH

The other reason to take my advice is because the rightwing in this country spent the last 30 years getting elected to school boards, legislators and now the president.
Sure, but speaking from the perspective of a family of teachers..... The real decisions about what is taught are made by the people on the front lines.

There's a set curriculum and you can bet when it comes time for evaluations that's what's being taught. But in between those evaluations..... teachers gonna teach :student:.
 

BrownArmy

Well-Known Member
Sure, but speaking from the perspective of a family of teachers..... The real decisions about what is taught are made by the people on the front lines.

There's a set curriculum and you can bet when it comes time for evaluations that's what's being taught. But in between those evaluations..... teachers gonna teach.

LULZ.

My wife is a Social Worker, my step-mom is a Social Worker, both work in the school system.

My wife's mother was a Kindergarten teacher for thirty-four years.

The stories these three tell me, I'm not surprised about the state of our union...
 

newfie

Well-Known Member
SMH

The other reason to take my advice is because the rightwing in this country spent the last 30 years getting elected to school boards, legislators and now the president.

don't worry you're liberals are still teaching and corrupting our kids.
 

DriveInDriveOut

Inordinately Right
LULZ.

My wife is a Social Worker, my step-mom is a Social Worker, both work in the school system.

My wife's mother was a Kindergarten teacher for thirty-four years.

The stories these three tell me, I'm not surprised about the state of our union...
It's :censored2:ed up no doubt about that. The things I've heard and seen.... On the other hand I'm almost envious of their connection to the future.

All I do is move cardboard from one place to another.... and I'm paid literally double what my wife makes for teaching the future of our country. Our priorities are all jacked up.
 

Maui

Well-Known Member
It's immediately clear you don't have a fundamental understanding about the theory of evolution.

I'm not saying that to be pejorative, but you're making arguments against positions that the theory of evolution simply doesn't take.

No scientist ever said that one species evolved into another species, and apes didn't evolve into men, but we do share a common ancestor.

Lulz.

Why Are There No Transitional Animals Today?, for a really long and funny read.

You think this forum is rough?
Not to mention conflating cosmology for biological science.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
What's your advice?
Teach the fundamentals and how they fit together. Leave the couple paragraphs about evolution out and suddenly, they're (the creationists) is stolen. When they claim they want "equal time"...well, they've got it.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
So this whole debate is about what is taught for a grand total of what? Maybe 3 weeks total through a high school education? What if they simply didn't teach either?
How about we leave it up to the scientists and science teachers as to what gets taught in a science class?
Science could simply teach genetics, cell structure, mutation, maybe get a bit deeper in those areas and leave evolution to the first two days of higher education.
Evolutionary theory is central to our understanding of biology, microbiology, genetics, germ theory, etc. You really can't teach one without the other. Once again, how about we leave it to the scientists?
Seems like folks have become so intent on winning that they miss a simple compromise.
Its not about winning or compromise, its about teaching science in science class.
 

BrownArmy

Well-Known Member
Teach the fundamentals and how they fit together. Leave the couple paragraphs about evolution out and suddenly, they're (the creationists) is stolen. When they claim they want "equal time"...well, they've got it.

Errm.

I'm the one drinking, what are you on about?
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
How about we leave it up to the scientists and science teachers as to what gets taught in a science class?
Evolutionary theory is central to our understanding of biology, microbiology, genetics, germ theory, etc. You really can't teach one without the other. Once again, how about we leave it to the scientists? Its not about winning or compromise, its about teaching science in science class.
Seems to me we are about 30 years past "leaving it to the scientists", no? I'd be fine with that personally. Remember, I find the whole debate pretty much fabricated.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Errm.

I'm the one drinking, what are you on about?
LOL. Seeing it from a different angle.

Describing the confined explosion of oxygen and a combustible fuel and it's translation into mechanical rotational energy for the purposes of transport as well as the environmental costs of the resulting pollutants and inefficiencies with an eye toward developmental possibilities for the refinement of said explosion.
 

newfie

Well-Known Member
How about we leave it up to the scientists and science teachers as to what gets taught in a science class?
Evolutionary theory is central to our understanding of biology, microbiology, genetics, germ theory, etc. You really can't teach one without the other. Once again, how about we leave it to the scientists? Its not about winning or compromise, its about teaching science in science class.

which scientist should we trust?

Fakegate: The Obnoxious Fabrication of Global Warming
 

njdriver

FedEx Browned
It's immediately clear you don't have a fundamental understanding about the theory of evolution.
I'm not saying that to be pejorative, but you're making arguments against positions that the theory of evolution simply doesn't take.

Actually I believe I do, but I still do not believe the basic premise.

That there was a primordial soup billions of years ago in which the right molecules, gases and chemicals organized themselves by chance, and then somehow assembled themselves into a living organism capable of reproducing itself, and everything we see now is somehow related to that random process?

The Law of Biogenesis states life can’t come from non-life.

You may remember however, my previous posts dealt with Charles Darwin and his theory of evolution through natural selection. I'm aware that he believed in microevolution, the ability of a given species to adapt according to various changes in temperature, climate, etc.

I accept microevolution.

But Darwin also believed in macroevolution, although he could never prove it, that a bear, for instance, could evolve over time with enough accumulated change to eventually become a whale.

That’s what I reject.

In the Book of Genesis, it states 10 times that God created after its kind; man, birds, land animals, sea creatures, etc.

For instance, in the cat kind, we have ordinary housecats, lions, tigers, cheetahs, etc. Breeding over time will still result in members of the cat kind. A male tiger can breed with a lioness, resulting in a tigon, but there could be no such thing, as a “dat,” or a dog-cat kind. It doesn't happen in nature or evolution.

I simply cannot accept there is any evolutionary relationship to what scientists claim happened billions of years ago in a mass of primordial ooze to the diversity of life forms we see today.

This quote from answersingenesis.org says it better than I could:

“To do science, certain things must be true. The universe must be logical and have some organization to it. Moreover, the human mind must be capable of rational thought—capable of considering the various alternatives and then choosing the best. But if evolution were true, then we would have no reason to expect either of these conditions. If this world were nothing but a cosmic accident, if our brains were nothing but rearranged pond scum, then why would they be able to understand the universe?

On the other hand, a biblical creationist has every reason to expect scientific inquiry to be possible. The Bible teaches that God made the universe and the human mind, so we would expect these two things to “go together.” Moreover, since God gave Adam the responsibility to care for creation, it makes sense that He would have given Adam the ability to understand the natural world.

Logical reasoning itself only makes sense in a biblical worldview. To make a logical argument about anything, we have to use laws of logic. But if the universe is just matter in motion (as many evolutionists believe), laws of logic wouldn’t exist since laws of logic are not made of matter. Laws of logic are “rules” that help us distinguish correct from incorrect forms of reasoning. But in an evolutionary universe, why should there be a standard for reasoning, and who is to say what that standard is? How could we ever really know for certain the laws of logic?

In the biblical creation worldview, however, laws of logic make sense. They reflect the thinking of God who upholds the entire universe by His power. God is our standard for correct thinking because all truth is in Him. We can know about laws of logic because God has made us in His image and has revealed some of His thoughts to us in His Word. We can expect laws of logic to be universally true and never change because they stem from the nature of God. So, when evolutionists such as Charles Darwin attempt to use science and logic, they reveal the fact that in their heart of hearts they know the God of creation…”


No scientist ever said that one species evolved into another species, and apes didn't evolve into men, but we do share a common ancestor.

Well, maybe they don’t come out and say it, maybe they do, but they do agree with speciation, or the process of how one population of a species changes over time to the point where that population is distinct and can no longer interbreed with the "parent" population. That’s not a new kind however, more of a subspecies.

Lulz.

You think this forum is rough?

Ah, it’s not so bad. I’m a big boy.

I don’t pretend to know everything about evolution, or even the Creation process, but my faith compels me to believe there was purpose, order and logic as to how life began.

I fully understand and accept others have differing viewpoints or beliefs, and I’m fine with that as well. I'm also open to fessing up if something I stated was false. It’s just the penchant for some to denigrate or insult because of those differences. I’m a bit miffed at myself for allowing some to push my buttons and responding in kind. Don’t get me wrong, I’m no paragon of virtue, I just usually exercise a bit more restraint.

If I become that which I rail against, I've negatively evolved, or devolved.
 
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