Presidential press coverage

[tieguy]

TRPK,

Where did AYERS kill anyone in a domestic bombing or attack? The only people killed by a bomb were underground members who were constructing a bomb in an apartment.

You said AYERS may not have been convicted? Where was he charged with a crime? When did he face a jury? When did he ever face a jury of his peers in a courtroom where he was charged with anything?

His wife was not charged with any acts of terrorism or crimes. She spent less than a year in jail for not testifying against other underground members.

When AYERS said he didnt do enough, what was he talking about?

Was it merely placing more bombs and blowing stuff up??

Or was it the reality of anti-us involvement in southeast asia?

You see, the underground was against US policy in vietnam and the use of the poorest people in the country to do the grunt work on the front lines.

They hated the goverment at the time for its policies that kept the poorest of the poor going to vietnam to be killed for a cause "they" believed to be not worthy of human loss.

They hated the goverment for protecting its well to do's children and never sending them to vietnam. They leaned towards hating the elite, the rich, the priviledged.

They too were children of priviledge. Rich white kids from wealthy families. How do you think they ALL went to fancy colleges?

Its amazing how people hear "extractions" of facts and run with distorted opinions about them because "famous" right wing propagandist like Sean Hannity talk about it everyday without really talking about it.

Hannity touches the surface of the AYERS issues without getting too deep, its the implications that he is trying to communicate to his viewers, its the viewers who will make the final leap to assumption.

If you know of any case where AYERS was charged with terrorism or bombings, tried and found not guilty, let me know and Ill apologize to you.

figures you would try to defend ayers too.

 

[sortaisle]

Who told you i wasnt a ups'er?

and what is it to you?

Sorry your little playground has other people on it from time to time, I realize some of you folks like to roll around in the mud together.

I choose to spend my time educating myself on the realities of life, not repeating right wing talk shows garbage and take ownership of it.

Get your panties out of their bunch, no one told me you weren't a UPSer, I just asked a question because you haven't posted on any other sections of the forum. You know the forum called Brown Cafe? It's a great forum and a wealth of information.

1st: It means nothing and less than nothing to me if your a upser or not. Feel free to play on the playground here all you want. It just makes you seem like a troll that you don't have an opinion on any other portion of the forum.

2nd: You have posted stuff from news sites all over the place here and have called it your own. Your "education" you get from the media on the "realities of life" is slanted as far left as O'reily or Limbaugh is slanted right. I take my information as a whole from both sides and draw my own conclusions from them. I thought I made this clear on my posts before but you are putting me in a generalization with the others. You are entirely entitled to your opinion on the matter, but your just as closed minded as the same people your bashing.

 

[Catatonic]

It just makes you seem like a troll that you don't have an opinion on any other portion of the forum.

You can always put him on your ignore list - see how much more inteligent this is than what he posts?

 

[outamyway]

figures you would try to defend ayers too.

It makes sense that he/she would.

 

[sortaisle]

You can always put him on your ignore list - see how much more inteligent this is than what he posts?

Nah, I do really enjoy the information when he/she is being objective, it's when he/she gets personal and attacking that it gets ridiculous. If it gets to the point to where there's no return then I'll consider ignoring.

 

[govols019]

Bob the Barr?

Chuck Baldwin

 

[sortaisle]

Chuck Baldwin

Constitutional party eh? I like there ideas, but some of them are way radical Right wing folks. I think I read on wikipedia that they think bush is a liberal. It would be fantastic if they got bigger though.

 

[toonertoo]

John McCain - Hanoverton OH - Oct 31

In My little town today.

 

[toonertoo]

The governator

Schwarzenegger Campaigns for McCain in Columbus

 

[govols019]

I think I read on wikipedia that they think bush is a liberal

He has expanded the reach of the federal government into our lives.

I'm not even sure what a liberal is anymore. I know what it used to be before the Republicans and Fox News turned the word into just a catch-all for people that disagree with them.

 

[Babagounj]

TRPK,

Where did AYERS kill anyone in a domestic bombing or attack? The only people killed by a bomb were underground members who were constructing a bomb in an apartment.

You said AYERS may not have been convicted? Where was he charged with a crime? When did he face a jury? When did he ever face a jury of his peers in a courtroom where he was charged with anything?

His wife was not charged with any acts of terrorism or crimes. She spent less than a year in jail for not testifying against other underground members.

When AYERS said he didnt do enough, what was he talking about?

Was it merely placing more bombs and blowing stuff up??

Or was it the reality of anti-us involvement in southeast asia?

You see, the underground was against US policy in vietnam and the use of the poorest people in the country to do the grunt work on the front lines.

They hated the goverment at the time for its policies that kept the poorest of the poor going to vietnam to be killed for a cause "they" believed to be not worthy of human loss.

They hated the goverment for protecting its well to do's children and never sending them to vietnam. They leaned towards hating the elite, the rich, the priviledged.

They too were children of priviledge. Rich white kids from wealthy families. How do you think they ALL went to fancy colleges?

Its amazing how people hear "extractions" of facts and run with distorted opinions about them because "famous" right wing propagandist like Sean Hannity talk about it everyday without really talking about it.

Hannity touches the surface of the AYERS issues without getting too deep, its the implications that he is trying to communicate to his viewers, its the viewers who will make the final leap to assumption.

If you know of any case where AYERS was charged with terrorism or bombings, tried and found not guilty, let me know and Ill apologize to you.

Would you care to come to Boston and repeat this to the family of a slain policeman, who was shot while Ayer's group was robbing a bank ?

 

[Babagounj]

Latest poll numbers :

Drum roll please third worst numbers ............ President G Bush.

........second worst numbers.................The current Congress.

And the group with the lowest numbers ( ever ).....the us media.

Maybe this explains why so many newspapers are about to go under.

 

[tieguy]

The governator
YouTube - Schwarzenegger Campaigns for McCain in Columbus

nice speech by arnie. I remember when four years ago when Bush had Arnie come to ohio and the press made a big deal out of it. Now the press follows Obama around and mentions mccain as an after thought.

 

[The Other Side]

Would you care to come to Boston and repeat this to the family of a slain policeman, who was shot while Ayer's group was robbing a bank ?

AYERS group of "Weatherman", or the splinter group "the weather underground" who committed that crime?

What about the rogue elements of the SDS within the weather underground?

AYERs couldnt be everywhere at once, the group fractured into many parts, violent and non violent.

You must understand the history of the group(s) and the responsiblity of each faction.

Placing blame on AYERS is rediculous given his american right to have a "presumption of innocence" until proven guilty by a jury of his peers.

Did we do away with the bill of rights?

To this date, there is NO, ZERO, NADA connection to Bill Ayers and the death of anyone in american history.

If you can prove there is a legal, judge or jury defined case citing any connection to any deaths of anyone involving BILL AYERS, then cite it.

Otherwise, you are spreading lies and distortions.

The history of Bill Ayers stands for itself. Innocent until proven guilty.

(just in case you didnt know this)
[edit] Prairie Fire

The Weather Underground’s ideology changed direction in the early 1970’s. With help from former Progressive Labor member, Clayton Van Lydegraf, the Weather Underground sought a more Marxist-Leninist approach. The leading members of the Weather Underground collaborated on ideas and published their manifesto: "Prairie Fire: The Politics of Revolutionary Anti-Imperialism."[6] By the summer of 1974, five thousand copies had surfaced in coffee houses and bookstores across America. Leftist newspapers praised the manifesto.[29] Abbie Hoffman publicly praised Prairie Fire and believed every American should be given a copy.[30] The manifesto’s influence initiated the formation of the 'Prairie Fire Organizing Committee' in several American cities. Hundreds of above-ground activists helped further the new political vision of the Weather Underground.[29] In the late 1970s, the Weatherman group further split into two factions — the "May 19 Coalition" and the "Prairie Fire Collective" — with Bernadine Dohrn and Bill Ayers in the latter. The Prairie Fire Collective favored coming out of hiding, with members facing the criminal charges against them, while the May 19 Coalition continued in hiding. A decisive factor in Dohrn's coming out of hiding were her concerns about her children[citation needed]. The Prairie Fire Collective started to surrender to the authorities from the late 1970s to the early 1980s. The remaining Weatherman Underground members continued to violently attack US institutions.

 

[The Other Side]

On a side note,

the investigators who handled the weather underground case were PROSECUTED, TRIED and CONVICTED for crimes against innocent american citizens aka BILL AYERS and associates.

If anyone was a criminal it was the goverment who tried to circumvent the laws of the land.

The Attorney General in the new Carter administration, Griffin B. Bell, investigated, and on April 10, 1978, a federal grand jury charged Felt, Miller and Gray with conspiracy to violate the constitutional rights of American citizens by searching their homes without warrants, though Gray's case did not go to trial and was dropped by the government for lack of evidence on December 11, 1980.
The indictment charged violations of Title 18, Section 241 of the United States Code. The indictment charged Felt and the others

did unlawfully, willfully, and knowingly combine, conspire, confederate, and agree together and with each other to injure and oppress citizens of the United States who were relatives and acquaintances of the Weatherman fugitives, in the free exercise and enjoyments of certain rights and privileges secured to them by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America.[37]
​

Felt and Miller attempted to plea bargain with the government, willing to agree to a misdemeanor guilty plea to conducting searches without warrants—a violation of 18 U.S.C. sec. 2236—but the government rejected the offer in 1979. After eight postponements, the case against Felt and Miller went to trial in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia on September 18, 1980.[38] On October 29, former President Richard M. Nixon appeared as a rebuttal witness for the defense, and testified that presidents since Franklin D. Roosevelt had authorized the bureau to engage in break-ins while conducting foreign intelligence and counterespionage investigations.[39] It was Nixon's first courtroom appearance since his resignation in 1974. Nixon also contributed money to Felt's legal defense fund, Felt's expenses running over $600,000. Also testifying were former Attorneys General Herbert Brownell, Jr., Nicholas deB. Katzenbach, Ramsey Clark, John N. Mitchell, and Richard G. Kleindienst, all of whom said warrantless searches in national security matters were commonplace and not understood to be illegal, but Mitchell and Kleindienst denied they had authorized any of the break-ins at issue in the trial.
The jury returned guilty verdicts on November 6, 1980. Although the charge carried a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison, Felt was fined $5,000. (Miller was fined $3,500).[40] Writing in The New York Times a week after the conviction, Roy Cohn claimed that Felt and Miller were being used as scapegoats by the Carter administration and that it was an unfair prosecution. Cohn wrote it was the "final dirty trick" and that there had been no "personal motive" to their actions.[41] The Times saluted the convictions, saying that it showed "the case has established that zeal is no excuse for violating the Constitution".[42] Felt and Miller appealed the verdict, and they were later pardoned by Ronald Reagan.[43]

(Just a little info to clear the record)

 

[trplnkl]

Wikipedia, a source that anyone can add to, correct contents..change to fit their fantasies..whether there is any truth or not. Hardly a reliable fount of information.
Yeah go for it.

your defending Bill Ayers just proves that you are a socialist also. And guess what......so IS BIG"0"

 

[tieguy]

I don't know why you keep trying to defend Bill Ayers: More on him from Wikopedia:

Further information: Weatherman (organization) Ayers became involved in the New Left and the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS).[9] He rose to national prominence as an SDS leader in 1968 and 1969. As head of an SDS regional group, the "Jesse James Gang", Ayers made decisive contributions to the Weatherman orientation toward militancy.[7] The group Ayers headed in Detroit, Michigan became one of the earliest gatherings of what became the Weatherman. Between the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago and the June 1969 SDS convention, Ayers became a prominent leader of the group, which arose as a result of a schism in SDS.[7] "During that time his infatuation with street fighting grew and he developed a language of confrontational militancy that became more and more pronounced over the year [1969]", disaffected former Weatherman member Cathy Wilkerson wrote in 2001. Ayers had previously become a roommate of Terry Robbins, a fellow militant, Wilkerson wrote. Robbins would later be killed while making a bomb.[10] In June 1969, the Weatherman took control of the SDS at its national convention, where Ayers was elected Education Secretary.[7] Later in 1969, Ayers participated in planting a bomb at a statue dedicated to riot police casualties in the 1886 Haymarket Riot confrontation between labor supporters and the police.[11] The blast broke almost 100 windows and blew pieces of the statue onto the nearby Kennedy Expressway.[12] (The statue was rebuilt and unveiled on May 4, 1970, and blown up again by other Weathermen on October 6, 1970.[13][12] Rebuilding it yet again, the city posted a 24-hour police guard to prevent another blast.[12]) Ayers participated in the Days of Rage riot in Chicago in October 1969, and in December was at the "War Council" meeting in Flint, Michigan. Larry Grathwohl, an FBI informant in the Weatherman group from the fall of 1969 to the spring of 1970, stated that "Ayers, along with Bernardine Dohrn, probably had the most authority within the Weatherman".[14]



I believe this refutes your futile attempt to defend the nut.

 

[The Other Side]

Wikipedia, a source that anyone can add to, correct contents..change to fit their fantasies..whether there is any truth or not. Hardly a reliable fount of information.
Yeah go for it.

your defending Bill Ayers just proves that you are a socialist also. And guess what......so IS BIG"0"

I dont mind an opposing opinion, but I referenced wiki to make a simple point rather than clogging the board with pages of historical documents.

If you have any proof that what I posted is unreliable or false, I would enjoy reading it. It may change my mind.

I am sorry the truth hurts those that want to believe something else.

But, when people recite the useless rhetoric from right wing media on issues where "they" distort, leave out or make up facts not in the offical record, then I feel "the other side" should be represented.

With regard to AYERS, I am not defending his actions, I am defending the record. There is a big difference.

People can make a choice to believe what they hear, or believe what are facts.

This political year has been filled with exagerations by the RNC and the McCain campaign and the polls reflect this.

Of all the distortions and smears tried, nothing appears to be sticking.

Those who would believe what has been said ie: "hes a muslim, hes a terrorist, hes anti-semitic etc etc..." would have voted for McCain anyway.

This makes the message useless.

The media, with all its biases has jumped on the train that the american voting "people" are riding, and jumped off the train that is heading for the brick wall.

Yes, I agree, the media has focused on change and left McCain behind, but was that because it was John McCain or because they see another BUSH with a different name?

8 Years of failed policies (IMO), 8 years of divided americans. We need a leader, a statesman, not another man who will try to divide america into the "real america" and the "anti-america" like McCain and Sarah Palin have been propagating across the land.

A true statesman will bring citizens together, not drive them apart because of political idealogy.

Obama has demonstrated clearly that he is a statesman.

Obama 2008

 

[tieguy]

I dont mind an opposing opinion, but I referenced wiki to make a simple point rather than clogging the board with pages of historical documents.

If you have any proof that what I posted is unreliable or false, I would enjoy reading it. It may change my mind.

I am sorry the truth hurts those that want to believe something else.

But, when people recite the useless rhetoric from right wing media on issues where "they" distort, leave out or make up facts not in the offical record, then I feel "the other side" should be represented.

With regard to AYERS, I am not defending his actions, I am defending the record. There is a big difference.

People can make a choice to believe what they hear, or believe what are facts.

This political year has been filled with exagerations by the RNC and the McCain campaign and the polls reflect this.

Of all the distortions and smears tried, nothing appears to be sticking.

Those who would believe what has been said ie: "hes a muslim, hes a terrorist, hes anti-semitic etc etc..." would have voted for McCain anyway.

This makes the message useless.

The media, with all its biases has jumped on the train that the american voting "people" are riding, and jumped off the train that is heading for the brick wall.

Yes, I agree, the media has focused on change and left McCain behind, but was that because it was John McCain or because they see another BUSH with a different name?

8 Years of failed policies (IMO), 8 years of divided americans. We need a leader, a statesman, not another man who will try to divide america into the "real america" and the "anti-america" like McCain and Sarah Palin have been propagating across the land.

A true statesman will bring citizens together, not drive them apart because of political idealogy.

Obama has demonstrated clearly that he is a statesman.

Obama 2008

My posting was easily found and easily refuted your weak attempt at defending Bill Ayers.

The bush economy was one of the strongest in history until the present version of congress destroyed it.

The destruction of this economy by this version of congress has been swift and complete. As a liberal supporter you should be extremely proud of their accomplishments.

 

[The Other Side]

I don't know why you keep trying to defend Bill Ayers: More on him from Wikopedia:

Further information: Weatherman (organization) Ayers became involved in the New Left and the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS).[9] He rose to national prominence as an SDS leader in 1968 and 1969. As head of an SDS regional group, the "Jesse James Gang", Ayers made decisive contributions to the Weatherman orientation toward militancy.[7] The group Ayers headed in Detroit, Michigan became one of the earliest gatherings of what became the Weatherman. Between the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago and the June 1969 SDS convention, Ayers became a prominent leader of the group, which arose as a result of a schism in SDS.[7] "During that time his infatuation with street fighting grew and he developed a language of confrontational militancy that became more and more pronounced over the year [1969]", disaffected former Weatherman member Cathy Wilkerson wrote in 2001. Ayers had previously become a roommate of Terry Robbins, a fellow militant, Wilkerson wrote. Robbins would later be killed while making a bomb.[10] In June 1969, the Weatherman took control of the SDS at its national convention, where Ayers was elected Education Secretary.[7] Later in 1969, Ayers participated in planting a bomb at a statue dedicated to riot police casualties in the 1886 Haymarket Riot confrontation between labor supporters and the police.[11] The blast broke almost 100 windows and blew pieces of the statue onto the nearby Kennedy Expressway.[12] (The statue was rebuilt and unveiled on May 4, 1970, and blown up again by other Weathermen on October 6, 1970.[13][12] Rebuilding it yet again, the city posted a 24-hour police guard to prevent another blast.[12]) Ayers participated in the Days of Rage riot in Chicago in October 1969, and in December was at the "War Council" meeting in Flint, Michigan. Larry Grathwohl, an FBI informant in the Weatherman group from the fall of 1969 to the spring of 1970, stated that "Ayers, along with Bernardine Dohrn, probably had the most authority within the Weatherman".[14]



I believe this refutes your futile attempt to defend the nut.

I dont see how??

There were many factions within the weatherman, the easest way to get confused is to believe the weather underground, the sds and the weatherman are all the same people.

In a time of political termoil, there were many protest groups rising against the "machine" or the US goverments involvement in vietnam.

Many of these groups "melded" together.

There were many bad acts committed by many protest groups during this time period and the underground faction of the weatherman were no saints.

No one is defending there actions, the historical record is very clear.

It just has nothing to do with this election.

Associations from the past has been the death of the McCain campaign.

What about John Hagee's church and his connections to the "army of god", a right wing religious domestic terrorists group that blows up abortion clinics and kills doctors and nurses.

Q? Should John McCain be held responsible for those actions in all fairness???

This is why McCain himself called for the non mentioning of Rev wright during the campaign. His ties to HAGEE and the Army of God would surface.

"Associations" was a desperate attempt to scare the voter. It didnt work and later in history, you will see this tactic was the failure of the McCain campaign.