Production firing case finally heard at panel..... well almost

[toonertoo]

Yes occasionally a driver is wrong. They are still human, and we all make mistakes. But the original premise is still, the numbers are just wrong. There is no way they are correct or fair, or when you have an OJS the sup should be able to pinpoint what is occurring that is making said driver be so late. Under the old numbers, before losing the 5.8 secs per pkg because of diad vs sheeting, I could pinpoint why I was .35 late or whatever, if I was early I could tell why.
Now its like a big suprise to look at the OR. Which is why I quit looking except when they make me. There is no logic to it, it is not a representation of the day I had, and my sup has never said what, if anything I did wrong. Other than I could move a little faster. to that I say, yes I could 10 yrs ago, now I cannot, this is my safe pace, and it is what I do whether you give me an 8hr day or a 12 hr day. Some days it looks better on your reports than others.

 

[pretzel_man]

Its a numbers game.

They know damn good and well that none of the terminations will stick, but they are counting on the fact that a certain percentage of the drivers will simply cave in to the harassment and start skipping their lunches and breaks in order to meet the the impossible "standards"...which was the companies entire goal in the first place.

9 drivers who skip lunch= 1 route eliminated=one less car on the road= one less FT driver on the payroll= one less FT benefit package to pay for. Its not rocket science, just basic arithmetic....and it adds up to many millions of dollars per year in extra profits for the company.

Look at the way this company treats its own management people, and then ask yourself if it is truly logical to think that its "time studies" were ever intended to be fair or realistic in the first place.

The example mentioned has nothing to do with time studies.

I'm a believer in lock in rides if done as Dill suggested. No massaging of loads, dispatch, or territory.

A supervisor is on car and ensures methods are being followed. Performance (SPORH) on the three rides is evaluated. Comparison of SPORH when a supervisor is not on car and SPORH of the rides is done.

Most drivers will maintain SPORH. Some will not. Discipline is appropriate for those that do not. The discipline may not stick. Maybe it will.... Eventually....

When done this way, its a fair process and does not require skipping lunch or time studies.

 

[pretzel_man]

Yes occasionally a driver is wrong. They are still human, and we all make mistakes. But the original premise is still, the numbers are just wrong. There is no way they are correct or fair, or when you have an OJS the sup should be able to pinpoint what is occurring that is making said driver be so late. Under the old numbers, before losing the 5.8 secs per pkg because of diad vs sheeting, I could pinpoint why I was .35 late or whatever, if I was early I could tell why.
Now its like a big suprise to look at the OR. Which is why I quit looking except when they make me. There is no logic to it, it is not a representation of the day I had, and my sup has never said what, if anything I did wrong. Other than I could move a little faster. to that I say, yes I could 10 yrs ago, now I cannot, this is my safe pace, and it is what I do whether you give me an 8hr day or a 12 hr day. Some days it looks better on your reports than others.

Tooner.....

The comparison is NOT with over allowed. Its SPORH which does not require a time study.

As I read this thread, a driver was terminated 5 times for not maintaining SPORH. I assume this to be SPORH during a lock in ride. That is the process.

Another poster said that when there is an OJS ride, the system adds time so the ride looks better. First, that is untrue. Second, it would NOT impact SPORH.

I do NOT know what really happened. Neither does anyone else here.

In this case, I don't see it as a matter of making a mistake. All people do.

If SPORH is at a certain level with a supervisor on car, and at a different level when not, I don't see this as a human error.

Yes, I have seen cases where supervisors massage loads to have good SPORH on a ride day. I have also seen cases where they don't, and drivers
slow down when the supervisor is not on car.

No one here knows which case this one fits in.

 

[Coldworld]

This is really a stretch...... There is a difference between belief and knowledge, and this belief would be very easy to prove. GTS has a standards file. If there were extra planned time given, there would be an allowance for OJS....

Here we have a driver fired five times for failing to maintain performance that was demonstrated with a supervisor on car. To think the cause is extra time given during an OJS os pushing it a little.

Maybe in this one case, the driver is at fault.....

I'm just going by my personal experiences....nobody elses. So basically if a sup talks to me for 20 minutes to go over safety stuff on a safety ride I just eat the time...is this what your saying p-man...

 

[tourists24]

Dill,

I understand what you are saying about massaging loads during an OJS. I have never done so or condoned the practice.

Neither of us know if that happened in this case, and that was not mentioned by the OP.

I responded to the statement that additional planned time is added in GTS because its an OJS. That is not true.

All I am saying is that based on what was said, maybe in this one case the driver is wrong..... That does happen sometimes.

No it wasnt what the driver did wrong. The truck was not massaged from the times that I observed. It was a simple case of his route being changed every single day. One day he would have certain sections of his route with add/cut stuff from a different route. This would add 20 miles to his day. Stop count would be the same, but more miles with different stuff than his own route. The next day he may have just his stuff. Next day he would have 15 of his stops cut but 30 stops added from another cut route. On at least one occasion, the driver went 45 miles more than he normally does. He never had the same day to compare anything to. When it was time for the 3 day ride, it was all just his stuff. He never had to break off trace for any reason. On one occasion the center asked if he could meet a driver to get his p/u pieces in. The on car said he could not because of his 3 day.

After the 3 day ride, things went back to normal and lo and behold, the SPORH went back down. Not every day, but most. The demand to maintain SPORH remained and he was fired. All along the process the center manager maintained that his route did not change from day to day.

 

[soberups]

The example mentioned has nothing to do with time studies.

I'm a believer in lock in rides if done as Dill suggested. No massaging of loads, dispatch, or territory.

.

The drivers who skip their lunch in order to "make scratch" arent getting "lock in rides" in the first place.

Coincidence? Perhaps....but I think not.

 

[soberups]

After the 3 day ride, things went back to normal and lo and behold, the SPORH went back down. Not every day, but most. The demand to maintain SPORH remained and he was fired. All along the process the center manager maintained that his route did not change from day to day.

The center manager knew damn good and well that the route had changed each day.

What had not changed....was the demand from above that the numbers stay the same by any means necessary.

Truth, honesty, integrity and accuracy....are four words that mean nothing to the center-level management peon who is simply fighting to keep his job. He might be a decent, honest human being....most of the ones I have dealt with are...but in the final analysis he is just trying to survive for one more day in a corporate culture that values only one thing; increased profits.

 

[toonertoo]

So If I am to understand what you are saying, said sporh, when a sup is on car, and when off car should stay the same. What happens when route changes enough to add 15 miles, or when pieces on ride were at avg 250, and go to 300. How can you expect the same sporh?

 

[Coldworld]

Most drivers who are given one rides are doing everything fundamentally right . Sure nobody is perfect but instead of helping a driver be more efficient on road is out there to document every method problem to use against a driver at a later time....even though some method problems don't add any extra time against a driver ie...grabbing a handrail or calling out UPS at a stop.

 

[tourists24]

So If I am to understand what you are saying, said sporh, when a sup is on car, and when off car should stay the same. What happens when route changes enough to add 15 miles, or when pieces on ride were at avg 250, and go to 300. How can you expect the same sporh?

and in the end that is exactly why this case was never heard. But just read Sober's posts. They are spot on. This is a driver who stood up for himself even in the face of discipline. There are many who would simply skip their lunch to make the numbers work. He takes his full hour lunch and full 10 minute break. He runs 1.5 hours over usually.

 

[toonertoo]

I did read, and it gets hard for people to stand up against the constant onslaught. But I know in my heart, from the moment I set foot in my truck in the am, my goal is to get done. I dont want all the ot, I dont go slower to try to get it. I do the best I can. While I may break my lunch into pieces, I take it. I need the break if for no more than to gather my thoughts. Face it, if your morning sucked, it will suck all day. You may be able to make up some, but sometimes its just a bad day. All the worrying in the world is not going to get it to the magic number. And to get a msg at 3pm that what you have done so far is not acceptable, that is just a deal breaker. You make that driver a hazard on the road, by trying to make him find ways to fix a bad day. That is when safety goes out the window. I wont allow that on my shift. it might get ugly, but it will get done, and safely.
Safety is whats pounded into our heads daily. It doesnt cahnge if your sporh is not going to be met, does it?

 

[gman042]

I rarely take an official lunch. The way I see it....I get home a half hour earlier each day. I am never bilking the company for this time because my bonus is more than the 30 minutes for a lunch. Besides.....all the time during that day that I am taking care of customers by answering their questions and such adds up to at least a half hour a day.

 

[Coldworld]

I rarely take an official lunch. The way Iej see it....I get home a half hour earlier each day. I am never bilking the company for this time because my bonus is more than the 30 minutes for a lunch. Besides.....all the time during that day that I am taking care of customers by answering their questions and such adds up to at least a half hour a day.

Not a dig towards t you personally but folks like you are some of the problem with the allowance....nobody should skip their lunch...some states require this. And if you are getting bonus with talking to your customers for 30 minutes a day it looks

 

[Coldworld]

Not a dig towards t you personally but folks like you are some of the problem with the allowance....nobody should skip their lunch...some states require this. And if you are getting bonus with talking to your customers for 30 minutes a day it looks like they better do another time study because its too loose....

 

[menotyou]

take your lunch, take your lunch, take your lunch!!!!!!!

 

[dilligaf]

No it wasnt what the driver did wrong. The truck was not massaged from the times that I observed. It was a simple case of his route being changed every single day. One day he would have certain sections of his route with add/cut stuff from a different route. This would add 20 miles to his day. Stop count would be the same, but more miles with different stuff than his own route. The next day he may have just his stuff. Next day he would have 15 of his stops cut but 30 stops added from another cut route. On at least one occasion, the driver went 45 miles more than he normally does. He never had the same day to compare anything to. When it was time for the 3 day ride, it was all just his stuff. He never had to break off trace for any reason. On one occasion the center asked if he could meet a driver to get his p/u pieces in. The on car said he could not because of his 3 day.

After the 3 day ride, things went back to normal and lo and behold, the SPORH went back down. Not every day, but most. The demand to maintain SPORH remained and he was fired. All along the process the center manager maintained that his route did not change from day to day.

That's not right. If mgt is going to do a lock in ride then it should be done with what is supposed to be on that rte. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[dilligaf]

So If I am to understand what you are saying, said sporh, when a sup is on car, and when off car should stay the same. What happens when route changes enough to add 15 miles, or when pieces on ride were at avg 250, and go to 300. How can you expect the same sporh?

UPS could care less and refuses to acknowledge the fact that piece count makes a difference.

 

[Coldworld]

UPS could care less and refuses to acknowledge the fact that piece count makes a difference.

Yeah,then I wonder why we lost time per piece if pieces don't matter. One of the areas where routes lost the most time was industrial and mall routes....which doesn't make sense since these routes are doing the majority of a centers pickup and delivery work.they lost time on the last ie studies for one reason only...these routes usually only have 50-70 delivery stops and they were bringing the stops per car down. This is also IMO why pick up stops don't count towards the spc metric because most of these industrial areas have 30 and 40+ pickups. It's a crock of crap...pure and simple. I have been on my route for quite a few years and it's industrial....I am overallowed everyday and I can have a day where I'm touching 1000 pieces and have almost the same allowance as a day I'm touching 600.... The route next to me fundamentally is exactly the same and that route can do a few less miles and less pieces picked up and delivered and plan an hour better than me....this has got me so pissed at times that I have almost blown a gasket at the center.

 

[Coldworld]

They say that the time studies could be off on one route but overall is very accurate....I don't believe this. IMO the time studies are based on many of the folks cutting corners over the years thus making this behavior the new "standard". I would bet the bank if there was an outside group ....let's say MIT mathematics department come in and had access to ups standards info then went out to do their own time studies,stop specific of course, I bet they would find many routes would gain large amounts of time...more time than a measly 20 minutes from a virtual time study. It actually comes down to ups stealing time from you,not the other way around.

 

[soberups]

I rarely take an official lunch. The way I see it....I get home a half hour earlier each day. I am never bilking the company for this time because my bonus is more than the 30 minutes for a lunch. Besides.....all the time during that day that I am taking care of customers by answering their questions and such adds up to at least a half hour a day.

Are you being honest and putting no lunch in the DIAD? Or are you being dishonest and entering a lunch that you did not actually take? Remember that the "bonus" you are getting is nothing more than a cash bribe that the company is choosing to pay you in exchange for falsifying your timecard and working off of the clock. At some point, they could very well take away that bonus, while the false production expectations that you have allowed them to have will remain in place.