Proper handling question.. broken dreams :(

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by RyNWA, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. RyNWA

    RyNWA New Member

    Hello everyone, sorry the over dramatic thread title ;).

    Ok, so i just purchased this amazing used subwoofer for my car on eBay. Winning bid was $475 so seller insured the package at $475, I payed him $55 for s/h, I think he payed about $72 or so for actual shipping charges. Seller had it shipped via UPS. The outer cardboard box is roughly 30"x"22"30" (LHW). The item itself weighs 55lbs. Seller had it double boxed in 2 cardboard boxes plus he had assembled a wooden crate that speaker was screwed into with another piece of wood over the top side of the exposed part of the speaker (if anybody here is familiar with subwoofers/speaker boxes, imagine a speaker box then just put some wood blocks just outside the speaker with another sheet of wood on those blocks to protect the speaker cone, or to most, the part of speaker you can see on the outside of the box). He used 3/4" thick wood to build this enclosure, not flimsy plywood or anything. Anyways, total package weight was 98lbs so it had to have one of those nifty over 70lb special handling tags on it. all free space in the boxes was stuffed with brown paper to keep things from moving around too much....

    Now, to get to the point of why I'm posting this thread. Package was scheduled to arrive friday, the 16th, and it did. I was coming home on my lunch break from work and the driver was at my house, so I got out of my vehicle started talking to my wife who was outside as well. The driver appeared to have slid the package to the front of truck, he then rolled it down the stairs on the passenger side of the truck to get it out and put it on a dolly and wheeled it up to my front door. I wouldn't think that rolling a 98lb package down some stairs is a proper way to move ANYTHING. Long story short, crate was busted, as a result the screws holding it together punctured the subwoofer. I'm just wanting to know if this guy was doing his job right or was just being lazy in the way he unloaded my package.

    I called and filed a damaged package claim and the woman said UPS would come back, pick up my package, have it inspected and then possibly have it shipped back to the seller (that part seems pointless to me). Now obviously, I removed this thing from the box to check it out after I seen the condition of the crate and there was sawdust, chunks of wood, and broken or loose screws all over the place. After I called, I tried to put it all back in he box the way it was when I opened it but it's kind of hard since the wood is busted. Will this matter to the inspectors?

    I just want my speaker fixed or replaced, but new, this speaker costs $759 msrp, I payed $475 for a used one. It can be repaired but I don't know where or how much it would cost to have done either by the manufacturer (preferred) or a reputable shop.

    Sorry for such a long post but I read the sticky when I signed up saying to provide as much info as possible... just noticed I can add pics... here pics of the package and the damage (looks like nothing but this part would shred to pieces with the three holes once power is applied). I have some pics this thing in the box, the way it was packaged but having trouble uploading them.

    Thanks for any and all help I might possibly get!

    2012-11-16 19.56.20.jpg2012-11-16 19.55.41.jpg
    2012-11-16 19.56.20.jpg2012-11-16 19.55.41.jpg
  2. Nimnim

    Nimnim The Nim

    I can't say for sure about the driver that delivered it, but I can't see why any of them would not remove the package from the rear of the package car.

    I am able to give some input about how it was handled in transit until it got to the driver to attempt delivery. I am an irreg driver, basically anything over 70 lbs, large, not cardboard,I handle in my facility. We get speakers from JL audio all the time, so I'd assume your package is similar. Sometimes they're a pain, but at least in my facility they rarely suffer more than a 2 foot drop, and given the size of most of them it's very easy to get one side on the ground without dropping anything.

    From what you say it definitely sounds like precautions were taken to ensure no damage, but I really can't count how many things encased in a wood frame are just not secured properly. I hope you get this taken care of without much issue, but sometimes things just don't work out.
  3. Dr.Brown

    Dr.Brown Swollen Member

    Paper isn't good packing, especially for a 98 pound box... it flattens..

    UPS requirements are 2 inches of packing all the way around
  4. RyNWA

    RyNWA New Member

    By 2 inches of packing what do you mean, there was alot of paper in the box, just not shown in the pics. Plus sub was screwed in to the wood crate, wouldn't have moved at all if the box wasn't busted.
  5. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Nimmim, the package may have been loaded toward the front of the pkg which is why the driver decided to deliver it out of the front rather than the back.

    I find it curious that the OP took the time to call regarding the damaged package but not the time to call in a concern regarding the delivery methods used by the driver.

    Based solely on the OP's story I would agree that the driver did not use proper package handling techniques. We are not taught to roll the package out of the truck on to the floor/ground (unless it is a tire). The proper method would have been to position the package in the cab and then lower it step by step on to the hand cart.

    Insured value of a package is not necessarily based on the sales price.

    UPS may opt to have the item repaired rather than replace if it is cheaper to do so and if it is determined that it was properly packaged and was damaged due to mishandling on our part.
  6. RyNWA

    RyNWA New Member

    about 40 pounds of the weight was there to add protection, and enclose the speaker. By 2 inches of packing what do you mean exactly, there was alot of paper in the box, just not shown in the pics. Plus sub was screwed in to the wood crate, I don't think it would have shifted much at all if the box wasn't busted. paper was wrapped around the bottom of the speaker in the enclosure, and shoved into the gaps in the cardboard box and wood crate to fill the void... I don't think the shipper's intention was for the paper to protect anything really, just keep things from shifting while it was moved around. The crate was the protection.
  7. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    If it were me I would have also built the wood crate and secured the sub in to the crate---I would have then used spray foam insulation or rigid styrofoam before putting the crate in to a box. I understand why he used the box---UPS charges extra for packages that require special handling, which is why shippers will put items such as tires in to boxes. Brown paper would not cut it and may lead to your claim being denied.
  8. Nimnim

    Nimnim The Nim

    You'd really be surprised with how many thing are in wood and either used improper screws/nails to ensure it doesn't come loose or just cheap wood which won't hold a fastener properly. I've also seen packages outright mistreated, when it comes to the irreg category things can be "manhandled" without really paying attention to it. Without examining the package up close I can't say if it was a failure of packing or if it was not handled properly, or both.

    I hate for any customer to suffer a damaged package, it happens but it always sucks. It's insured though, so hopefully you don't lose anything or much.

    If you were expecting anything through the Orlando FL area I could make an effort to ensure it isn't damaged, but that's the best I can personally do.
  9. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    It's just my opinion, but the driver should have messaged for help with the over 70 pound package.
  10. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    When is the last time you delivered your own route or covered a route? The contract does state that we can request help---the reality is you suck it up and deliver it yourself.
  11. Dr.Brown

    Dr.Brown Swollen Member

    2 inches of packing per side around the contents of the box.

    the paper might have filled the void when packed, but during transit, shifting and settling will cause the paper to flatten out. The extra 40 pounds of wood probably didn't help. I see particle board in the picture, I wouldn't necessarily call that "wood".
  12. Big Babooba

    Big Babooba Well-Known Member

    We ask for help in our center if we feel we can't handle it. If none is available, it comes back. If you get hurt handling an over 70, management will ask you why you didn't get help.
  13. RyNWA

    RyNWA New Member

    I told the person I spoke with about how I witnessed the driver unloading the package like this. She said it was noted and would be considered as part of my claim for compensation. A repair is perfectly fine with me as long as it's done by a trustworthy business or the manufacturer. These speakers are hand built one at a time in OK, I emailed the manufacturer to try to get a repair estimates but they've yet to respond so I only gave the person I spoke with the msrp of the speaker since I know that for sure.
  14. RyNWA

    RyNWA New Member

    I lol'ed at this cuz you are right, but....

    It is "particle board" but it's the stuff we make speaker boxes out, 3/4" mdf, it's pretty durable stuff for the most part as long as it doesn't get wet. There are no signs of water damage on it. It could be ldf (low density fiber board), but the grains in it look too small, smaller grains, higher density, stronger board. It's used because you can drill through it without much chance of splitting it and it can be sealed air tight with glue and silicon.
  15. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    Most pkg car drivers comply with what you are saying, yet most are wrong doing so and violate the contract language which we fought for.

    When your del points have handy people willing to help and that's perfect, but in reality (and probably this case) , there are occasional ones that most drivers should attempt to handle alone. Esp 100 pounds with stairs.
  16. superballs63

    superballs63 Well-Known Troll Troll

    Sorry, but MDF is not better to ship something in crate wise. I have built a few sub boxes myself, and sometimes in my anger I would take a hammer and SHRED the MDF. Now, take an identical sheet of plywood and take a hammer to it, let me know which one is easier to bust through.

    MDF does not bend, plywood does. So, at any point during this shipment, the plywood might have bent, but not broken. I say the damage is due to "creative" packaging, if the woofer had been secured to the wood, and it was rolled end over end, the sub should not have come loose.
  17. barnyard

    barnyard KTM rider Staff Member

    Early enough in the day, I might have had to deliver out the front also. When a car is bricked out, sometimes choices are limited.

    I foresee a disappointing outcome for the OP. Had the subwoofer been wrapped in plastic and the box filled with spray foam, it is doubtful that any damage would have happened. But that is beside the point, because yours is damaged.

    I do not see a problem with rolling a heavy package to position it onto a 2 wheeler. According to UPS' shipping manifest, we do not guarantee that a package will be oriented in any particular direction in transit, that means it should be safe on any side. Rolling it may have caused the damage, but had it been packed properly, damage would not have occurred. If it was a good deal and is cheap to repair, I would repair it and skip the claims process. It we pick it up and return it to the shipper, you will have to pay to get it back if it is fixed. This is clearly a case where it might be best to eat the repair and move on with life.

    Also, check the sticky at the top of this forum, particularly the last post, it pertains to the OP specifically.
  18. upsman68

    upsman68 Active Member

    I position my two wheeler on the stairs and slide the over 70 package on the two wheeler.
  19. hellfire

    hellfire no one considers UPS people."real" Teamsters.-BUG

  20. Mr Shifter

    Mr Shifter Active Member

    Ddaudio ain't no joke. So sorry for your lose. :(