Questionable Management

Discussion in 'The Archives' started by matrobw, Feb 12, 2003.

  1. matrobw

    matrobw Guest

    The company makes $3.2 Billion in porfilts last year. Expects growth of 15% this year. All fine and good right?

    Then why do they start putting its own work force on the street? What does that say about managements greed and shortsightedness? The Managers are only concerned about how they can score a few points with their supervisors and increase their yearly bonuses while the the very workers that are helping to bring these record profits are being let go?

    Here is another question. UPs Airlines received about $60 Million in the airline bailout bill that was passed following the 9/11 attacks. Yet the company cleared $2.7 Billion that year. Where did the money go?

    Being a shareholder I want to know what this gorilla is doing to its people while management stuffs their own pockets with the record profits it makes.

    Again why are they putting us on the street?
  2. lr1937

    lr1937 Guest

    Maybe it is a wake up call. Take a look at the rest of the Airline industry or any other industry. Layoffs are everywhere and companies making more than ups are laying off. A lot of it is due to technology and not needing 3 people in the cockpit. The same thing happened to railraod firemen when they went to diesel. I know you will not appreciate this analogy it has happened in the past and will continue to happen in the future. It is called featherbedding. I have been laid off a number of times in my life and know how you feel but taking your frustration out on UPS won't find you a job. I don't think ups takes lightly laying anyone off. It has and will continue to do to its people whatever the market dictates like every other capitalsitic company does. Being a shareholder and a manager is a choice you make. Most managers don't make much more than the people who report to them and a percentage of what they make is tied to company profits. I don't buy your "stuffing their own pockets" theory. Part of capitalism is looking out for share owner interests and layoffs have always been a way of doing that. I have empathy for anyone laid off and know the feeling from personal experience but you got to get over it and find other employment if you are laid off.
  3. betteroff

    betteroff Guest

    IR1937 doesn't like you mentioning the "stuffing pockets theory", I wonder why? The guy spent thirty years in management, what could he possibly know about the working shmuck or common man? His theory is to pay the worker as little as possible and the bosses deserve all the profit.
    Personally, I believe that any good company should encourage all employees to buy shares and get a piece of the action. What better incentive to employees than to have a stake in their company? Management by intimidation is ludicrous and eventually that will come back to haunt the company. Because it was effective in the past, the company was too reluctant to change. What a shame.

    The day of judgement will come for us all and I'm sure there will be a "special place" for UPS managers (right next to a guy named Adolph). I worked thirty-seven years at the company and thankfully none in management. Certainly, I passed on an opportunity to become wealthy but I have my riches in my family and friends. I do have a conscience and I am able to live with myself with integrity. I doubt there is a UPS manager that could define the word.
  4. retired1

    retired1 Guest

    Did anyone else notice that this post is from the same ip as Papa Mike's posts?
  5. lr1937

    lr1937 Guest

    Why don't you speak for yourself. You have no idea of my theory on pay or anything else. I never said I didn't like matrobw mentioning anything and certainly not stuffing your pocket theory. I disagreed with it. You or anyone else can post whatever you want here and if I don't agree with I am going to tell you so. I will gaurantee you I know as much about integrity as you do. I believe I also know as much as you do about being a working schmuck. I have worked just as hard as you and probably harder. I am a common man and I will compare my work and life history with you at any time. UPS has never paid you or me as little as possible. Your unregsitered name would indicate that you did not work for a company that paid you as little as possible.
    I agree with your management by intimadation theory and if it did go on and for as long as you think ups would be out of business. Perhaps some in ups practice it but it is not what got this company where it is today.
    I resent your judgement day theory and fear no judgement regarding my management practices whether that judgement comes from you or whoever you think is going to put us in a special place. If your god puts me in the same place as Adolph then he is as screwed up as you are. My chances on judgement day are far better than yours based on your groundless and unsubstaited rectal extractions regarding what kind of people managers are.
    What makes you think that I don't have riches in family and friends. Are you saying that management people like me have no good families or friends? If you are, you are full of sh&*.
    I am also thankful that none of your 37 years was in management. Your close minded, opinionated, guilt by association, and judgement day theories would really have turned people on.
    I am glad you are able to live with yourself as I am sure I could not with your hateful accusations and judgement day Hitler crap. As far as your conscience is concerned this post would lead me to believe that you may not have one.
    I gave my opinion on a post here and will continue to do so. I did not question anyones ingegrity, honesty, work habits, who they were going to join on judgement day, insinuate that someone did not have a good family or freinds because of his chosen career, insinuate that no one in his occupation had integrity, and generally make assumptions about all management people based on your own experience. If you hate management people as much as your post would lead one to believe I feel sorry for you. You have my sympathy and I wish you good luck with your god whichever one it might be. I have no fear of you or your gods intended Adolph like destinations. Good luck with your hatred.
    I will not post again on this subject and will not let go unanswered any post that infer that I lack ingegrity and that I that I did not respect respected everyone everyone that I worked with and that I would not treat them any differently than I would want to be treated.
  6. dannyboy

    dannyboy Guest


    Anon posts are the bain of all boards. A spineless poster can come in an say anything they want and go back into hiding. And they enjoy stabbing people in the back!

  7. ups_vette

    ups_vette Guest

    Ir1937..I have been reading your posts for quite some time and find them to be right on the money. Unfortunately, people like U Sama Bin Betteroff have their distorted bitter view of the world and nothing you say, and as nicely as you say it, will alter their me against them attitude.

    He is on a crusade, as was his his hero Adolf, to destroy that which he could never have.

    I am sure that IF he were a driver for UPS, the customers he had dealings with have the same feelings toward him. He spreads his misery everwhere he travels. His know it all,I'm better than you, all people with authority are evil attitude destroys everyone around him.
  8. lr1937

    lr1937 Guest

    and that I that I did not respect respected everyone everyone that I worked with and that I would not treat them any differently than I would want to be treated.
    This should read "and that I did not respect everyone that I worked with and that I would not want to treat them any differently than I would want to be treated.
    Sorry for not previewing what I posted.
  9. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    Personally I'm gratefull that Betteroff was able to tell me where I'm headed when I pass on. Knowing this I see no reason trying to live life as a christian. Instead I suppose I will spend the rest of my days engaged in sin and debaucery.
  10. thedrooler

    thedrooler Guest

    Ja...oops, i mean BETTERoff


  11. proups

    proups Guest

    betteroff or papamike: go back into your cave.

    I tried to defend you on another board, but no more. I have been with UPS over 20 years and have worked for many fine management people. Not only were they good to their people at work, they were good to their communities as well.
  12. beenthere

    beenthere Guest


    I totally agree with you on the abuse dealt by UPS management. It was unwise and unjust, no doubt. Consider the source, most managers were truck drivers who were given a tie. Uneducated, beating on the drivers was all they knew. It worked and the company was successful. Ergo, why change? The upper management people liked the numbers and were reluctent to change. However, the END does not justify the MEANS!!! Too bad they were so late in recognizing this. Remember when we had it all??? There was no Fedex, no competition? Remember how we were told to tell the customer to be ready or ya tomorrow? Many mistakes were made but don't think this company will ever admit to it. Time to forgive and forget. Put it behind you. Forget the intimidation tactics, lies and deceit. I know you were probably an honest guy and it's tough working for people with little or no integrity but you've got to let it go!!!! Otherwise, it will eat you up and they win!
  13. ups_vette

    ups_vette Guest

    When you refer to lies and deceite, you're referin to people like yourself and betteroff.
    It's employees such as you that were the target of so called intimidation an threats, justifiably so.
    Were it not for employees like you, management would have had more time to help solve the legidiment problems of people who needed the help.
  14. oldupsman

    oldupsman Guest

    To all of those who have commented on this topic. Having worked for UPS for 27 years now, all full time in package car, I think I am qualifed to speak on this subject. When I stared for UPS many things Betteroff said were true. When I walked in the door in the morning it was not "Good Morning". It was "Well you (Expletive) me again yesterday." It was not a nice place to work. It was a place where you recieved verbal abuse on a daily basis and were constantly reminded there were 20 guys out there who wanted your job. Managers were just truck drivers with ties who sole motvational tatics were fear and intimadation. Threats of violence, alcohol abuse, sexual harrasment, racism were commonplace. There are many times now I look back and I wonder how I put up with it and the only reason we survived as a company was because we were the only game in town.
    UPS has changed dramtically the past 15 years. And I give them all the credit in the world. The upgrade in management personnell has been incredible. The things I mentioned above never happen today and are no longer acceptable. Managers have been encouraged to get their degrees. We're hiring managers directly out of college. Real communcation between myself and my managers takes place. Concerns are adressed. Maybe not exactly the outcome you might like as an employee but I am no longer ignorned. The door really is always open.
    It is my opinion the Mike Eskew is the next generation of UPS managment. Jim Kelly was our last "truck driver with a tie." Eskew sees the importance of everyone being on the same team with a common goal. And he sees the importance of technology and how it can really keep us on top. And be more than just a package delivery company.
    There was a time when I was just as angry as Betteroff was but not anymore. UPS has turned itself around. And it sure is a pleasant change.
  15. rushfan

    rushfan Guest

    Here we go again, hourly vs. management
  16. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    Interesting how beenthere tries to put his brothers down as a bunch of uneducated truck drivers. Not sure where he came up with that one. Many have degrees and most have some college.
  17. ups_vette

    ups_vette Guest

    GREAT POST!!!!!
    As the world has changed in the last 15 years, so has UPS.
    You're right about Eskew. I remember being in a center when Mike was the I.E. manager in the old Atlantic District. He was talking to a group of drivers standing around before their start time. The respect and concern for their problems he showed was real. The drivers could tell he was a man who could relate to them and in return, gave him the respect he earned. This was in the early 80s, and to this day, he has not changed.
  18. proups

    proups Guest

    oldupsman: great post. You are right about the UPS of today - it is a much better company than it was 20 years ago. I look forward to our future. Mike Eskew has certainly shown that he can make a profit in tough economic times, and keep our stock alive when many others have plummeted. Our "team" approach will make us an even better company.

    To those who think management is "stuffing their pockets" - baloney. The only bonuses management get is their stock awards. They earn that by working the long hours and most of them take the job home with them. If you want that, you can ask for it.
  19. retired2

    retired2 Guest

    Oldupsman, indeed an excellent post. Change has indeed come, too bad so late. For some who were beaten upon for years, it is hard to forget. Kind of like tying your dog to a tree and beating him, then wondering why he is not your best friend. Upsvette obviously doesn't understand. Always critical (and nasty) toward a differing opinion. How could he possibly say the intimidation was justifiable? That's the kind of management that seriously damaged our company. Kudos to the management that recognized the need for change. Boo to Upsvette, get a dictionary and get a decent attitude.
  20. dannyboy

    dannyboy Guest


    This being my 30th year, I have seen, heard, and felt all that you posted about and more. While I personally liked the management style of OZ, Kelly was a real disapointment.

    Eskew on the other hand is one that bears watching. IF the teamsters do not shoot themselves in the foot, I think he can not only turn UPS into something special, but make it a place we all enjoy working for. One draw back, and I have seen managers quit already because of this, is the them and us hoopla that seems to affect many of the younger workers, those that never have seen what we had to put up with. Many was the day that I had to take my aggressions out physically BEFORE I went home. And there was NOTHING but a paycheck that was worth coming to work for.

    IF only some of these newer employees could go through a week of the crap we had 20 years ago, I think some of the life and death "problems" that they have now would be soooooo insignificant.

    Now if I could only get them to give me the retro recognition for my part time years.........