Ron Paul's Debate Comments

[wkmac]

They certainly proved a winner for Rudy but this is an interesting op-ed from CNN concerning what Ron Paul had to say.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/18/martin/index.html

 

[toonertoo]

I was first stunned, then I realized he must have got the dates wrong, and showed up at the wrong debate.

 

[wkmac]

Hey Tooner,

What did you think of Martin's comments in the op-ed?

 

[toonertoo]

"Absolutely. His real problem wasn't his analysis, but how it came out of his mouth"

Seems to always be the answer when someone says something so offensive, and it isnt well taken, right up there with "out of context"


"As Americans, we believe in forgiving and forgetting, and are terrible at understanding how history affects us today. We are arrogant in not recognizing that when we benefit, someone else may suffer. That will lead to resentment and anger, and if suppressed, will boil over one day."

I think we may be terrible at understanding how history affects us, or this conflict would be done, for the largest part, and may not have the casualties we have so far. Seems we are being blamed for being a country with economics resources, so we should feel bad every country doesnt have the same thing? Sounds like we should feel guilty?

"The debate format didn't give Paul the time to explain all of this. But I'm confident this is what he was saying. And yes, we need to understand history and how it plays a vital role in determining matters today."

Sounds like if we had given him more time he could have convinced us better, but hes not well spoken or organized, (must be a texas thing) so he needed more time than everyone else, now Martin is fixing it for him?
Those were just my thoughts when I read it. Im not much on history, so I cant debate on the Iran portion, I wont even try. Im not real analytical either, just my opinion of what I read.
So did I pass?

 

[wkmac]

I wasn't aware you were being judged. I was just interested in your thoughts on the matter and if you had read the op-ed. I work nights so I was unable to see the debate but from what I hear from folks like yourself it was a matter of Paul doing a very poor job of delivering the message. I'm not certain Martin is so much here to clean up Paul's mess as it is that he's making the observation that this a part of the issue is rarely discussed and I for one have severly questioned US foreign policy in all this mess. I will say as much as extreme religious doctrine is driving this, US foreign policy is doing absolutely nothing to stop itself from feeding the breeding grounds from whence this comes. That part is MHO with no disrespect aimed at anyone and the greatest of respect and appreciation for those going to Iraq to answer their country's call to duty. They are hero's all and I want them home with us as soon as possible and I would like to see us focus on Afghanistan and I fully and completely support that effort, foreign policy or not.

You may not like the history part, studying it I mean, but you might take a few minutes sometime and just search a little on the internet about the history of the Middle East from WW1 til today. It sure gives a greater understanding and you at least understand why some reactions are happening even though we both disagree with them. Knowing for example the religious importance of not only Saudia Arabia but Iraq as well and specifically Baghdad and Falujah (I know I butched that spelling or if I didn't I'm shocked) and then the difference between sunni and shia, it makes a world of difference IMO.

In another thread someone posted that the best solution would be to divide Iraq into 3 areas, 1 for sunni, 1 for shia and 1 for kurds. Prior to the fall of the Ottoman empire and the taking over of the region by the British, this was exactly the way it was. I also learned that Kuwait use to be a part of what is Iraq so this might explain why Saddam was always saying that it was. Before I learned this I thought Saddam was just nuts. Well I still think that he is nuts and I'm glad he's dead!

Why is Syria always in Lebanon? Because prior to the fall of the Ottoman Empire, Syria and Lebanon were one. Now that explained a lot to me as well. Did you know that England promised political autonomy to the Saudias if they sided with them against the Turk Ottomans during WW1? But then after WW1 they went back on their promise and made Saudia a protectorate of the UK. And it goes on and on. Sorry UK Guy but the Brits and the French after WW1 made a huge mess of this region and now we find ourselves right in the middle of it. I honestly believe to go forward, you'll have to go back in time first and then I really do believe the vast amounts of the problems can be quickly solved. But that's JMO too for what it's worth.

Have a good weekend.

 

[toonertoo]

I didnt think you were judging me.
It just reminded me of critical writing/thinking in college, and I hadnt done it is quite some time, and its kinda nice to remember how to tear things down and look at an article instead of just scanning it.
I do enjoy history now, it makes sense now, to go back and learn how and why they. It never clicked with me in high school or college.

 

[av8torntn]

One point Paul made in the debate that I have often wondered about was why we did not declare war instead of the use of force thing at least in Afghanistan. I know congress is kinda shy about giving away any of their power to the president but there has to be more to it than that. Does anyone know why?

 

[diesel96]

Seems like Ron paul's debate comments were recieved very well on Fox news own polls.After all other network polls closed and revealed their results declaring Ron Paul clearly winning. Fox Network in an attempt to save embarressment and humilation delayed the release of its poll results until Romney got a last minute unlikely surge.Fox news tamperproof?

I know you will blame "liberals for interfering the voting proceess or maybe you can blame it on Clinton Adm.
Or is it more Moderate Republicans are sending a message to the hardcore far right conservative.

This is our America not Hannity's America

 

[wkmac]

tooner said: I do enjoy history now, it makes sense now, to go back and learn how and why they.

Or it's "I'm an old' fart and how again did I screw that up!"

at all us old farts!

Only 2 subjects that I recall aceing in school were chemistry, it was the late 60's and early 70's so there was an ulterior motive , and history which my wife who was also a classmate of mine at the time use to despise me because with history it was so easy. It's ironic at least to myself that there was a time when I would have been right there with many here on such issues as the Iraq war as well as many other issues that is championed here from the so-called conservative side but age that I do think grants some element of wisdom as a result of time and experience if nothing else and then the interest to read about the why and how of things happening also tend to grant you some aspects of different perspectives on a variety of issues.

It's also of most importance I believe to read from all sides what you can because even though you may not agree with the position in the big picture, it may be the "little picture" elements where you learn the most and ultimately cause a major change in your thinking or on the flipside totally support in an ironclad way what you think. Believe it or not, from a certain perspective and understanding the various aspects at play, there are some good very reasons to do what we are doing in Iraq although because of my various principles of beliefs I just can come to support. The problem is they can and are rather in depth and well beyond the 30 second sound bite that the talk radio and big media mindset we have been conditioned to have. We are unable to strive for even the miniseries length look at things but instead only want the quick 30 minute sitcom version and that invites wrong conclusion and manipulation by some who know the facts in depth and are in position to set these things as policy that effect all of us.

Reading history and a lot of this dry seemingly boring stuff especially on the internet can seem like a waste of time (and a lot of it is) but there are those moments when you stumble upon some odd document or research paper that has a small tidbit of data that completely changes the picture and turns out to be a real gem of a find in better understanding what is going on. Those are the moments that make it all worthwhile IMO.

Enjoy your Sunday!

 

[wkmac]

Interesting op-ed IMO

http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/mulshine/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/117980934539710.xml&coll=1

The last line is an absolute gut buster especially if you don't like Hillary but if you love Rudy you might not want to read as it isn't to kind.

 

[Non Neocon]

Ron Paul is a true patriot. The only true conservative left in American government. The other big business republican globalists and democratic fakes like Hillary mean more of the same. Join the revolution. Vote Ron Paul.

 

[wkmac]

Ron Paul is a true patriot. The only true conservative left in American government. The other big business republican globalists and democratic fakes like Hillary mean more of the same. Join the revolution. Vote Ron Paul.

The Preceeding public service endorsement was brought to you by Libertarians R Us!



If you can't have fun and even laugh at yourself, life just ain't worth living IMO!

 

[Brainless]

Go Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Alex Jones]

Ron Paul is a true conservative!!!!!!!!! Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wkmac]

Ron Paul is a true conservative!!!!!!!!! Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alex,
You might check this out on Ron as I happen to flip by and catch the last part of it on C-Span

http://blog.ronpaul2008.com/ron_paul_2008/2007/06/ron_paul_on_new.html