Scoundrels in management?

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by Bombed Load, Feb 21, 2007.

  1. Bombed Load

    Bombed Load Guest

    Why do so few of the decent people who work at UPS take the brown transfusion and enter the ranks of management? How can any company survive when it draws from the bottom of the barrel in terms of employee respectability for management candidates? Many of these people will be training UPSers for the future. How can this be good? It seems to be driven from the top of the corporate ladder. If you are honest and work hard you expose many of the problems at UPS and then are punished for it. If a manager or supervisor lies, cheats, fudges or acts unethical and hides UPS’ problems he is rewarded. The best and brightest at UPS should be charged with UPS’ future. Any thoughts?
  2. Channahon

    Channahon New Member

  3. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    1. Start out as a part time temp. No fulltimer will go into mgmnt
    2. You cannot make a descision on your own. Has to be on a printout from the ranks above.
    3. You get a big pile of Stock for (don't know what for)
  4. canon

    canon Member

    My opinion.

    Decent people see how management treats decent people... and decent people don't want to treat anyone that way. That only leaves the bottom dwellers and those who are too new to UPS to know better.

    This doesn't apply to centers where decent managers/supes reside.

    Lot of posts recently about falsifying documents and dishonest supes. Haven't heard the word scoundrels before... things are definately worsening.
  5. Zypher22

    Zypher22 New Member

    I think that's what you could call a self-fulfilling prophecy. All this does is perpetuate the "stereotype" Where I'm at we have recently had some very good drivers become supervisors, and it is really starting to show, morale is up and so are all the numbers.

    Wouldn't it be great if the Decent people who don't like how management treats decent people, decided to get into management so they could change the way decent people were treated? It seems so simple, yet so out of reach....
  6. govols019

    govols019 You smell that?

    I've seen great people go into management and by the third year the constant beatdowns from the Ivory Tower has sucked all the caring out of them.
  7. 25yrvet

    25yrvet New Member

    I was taught to 'climb the ladder' in my childhood, I had good examples in my parents. I carried this philosophy to ups 26 yrs ago & was pulled aside by a couple of ol' vets who advised me not to climb the ladder. So for the first couple of years I kept my eyes & ears open in observation of mgt. The ol' vets were right, MOST of the dozens of mgt people that I've seen have had to lower their morals (Half truths, the whole truth not being told, bending the #s, etc). I remember seeing my old ctr mgr crying in his P600 before he was accepted into mgt; seems he didn't think his knees could take another year of delivering pkgs.
    On the other side of the coin I've seen a couple of good ones who would tell me the truth even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear (I got over it & respected them); but most of them don't last long. I've currently got an on car sup that's younger than my tenure with the company, he started pt, worked through college, got a degree , delivered & then went into mgt. We have a mutual respect for each other. KEY WORDS--mutual respect.
  8. psstdrvr

    psstdrvr Member

    I heard Fred S(FDX CEO) said it best when asked why FDX is doing so much better than UPS; .....they fired the wrong people! Very true, look around who still has management positions at UPS and who has left, the ones who left have moved on and done much better. I invite anyone to come to the UPS Melville facility on Long Island,NY and see first hand, especially after this past mondays President Day fiasco. We're still trying to fix the screwup. 100 years and they still can't get it right!
  9. sendagain

    sendagain Member

    Some of the reasons I didn't go into management were:

    My supervisor at the time was taking a new route out almost everyday and running it the entire day, while also needing to constantly keep on the phone with the office for any other concerns.

    The constant shuffling of management from center to center: just when they begin to know the area, they are sent off to learn a different center.

    I would have had to take a pay cut to become a supervisor, while increasing the number of hours I worked by at least two per day.

    I observed that people who voiced real concern over some policy that was suspect of wisdom, were shuffled off to some crap job somewhere.

    The office atmosphere in the building was much like that of Tom Hanks in Joe VS the Volcano: a sunless, confined and depressing area, not to mention the noise.

    I really didn't care to babysit the drivers who always had some problem, or always seemed to work slower than expectations.

    Management always seemed to be some club, seperate from the rank and file, into which when a man entered, he seemed to be viewed with suspicion from then on.
  10. I recently left UPS after 10 years, the majority in management after having come on as a management trainee.

    I considered myself 'decent' when I started off. By decent, I would say I felt I would consistently; 1) Do the right thing for the people whom I was responsible for 2) Do the right thing for my customers 3) Do the right thing for the business.

    The first one went by the wayside within a week. I was told to 'protect' certain routes, dump on certain people, make sure that 'so-and-so' is out until 8:30 every night, run the runners, make the whiners shut up, 'bend' the contract, and do hourly work. Almost all of which I would consider incompatible with 'doing the right thing'. The sludge of deals-with-the-devil, 'understandings', and other such deals that I was instructed needed to stay in place gave me almost zero flexibility in addressing the wants, needs, and concerns of most of my drivers.

    The second value, commitment to customers was always highly spoken of, but in practice didn't always pan out. Air left over after the driver's left? They left the 'S' off of a city name, that's an address correction. Driver's DR'ing 15 1DA stops at 10:29, and being told to look the other way. Damages rotting for months under a slide for months. Closed 1 being put on EAM packages habitually with no attempt. Being told that I couldn't help out a shipper with something because 'that's the sales rep's job', then begging a rep to talk to the customer for 6 months with no results. Same thing as above, much of the frustrations being driven by levels beyond my control. The net-net? You can beat your head on the wall, or go along with it.

    The last one, is the straw that breaks the camels back. I have, at least in theory, been entrusted as a management person in this organization. That would imply that I have been entrusted with making decisions that are good for the business. However, time and time again, reality shows that the people upstairs most certainly do NOT trust those below them. I wasn't allowed to drive more than 50 miles without dispensation from the Pope, I wasn't allowed to have a key to my office, the biggest, however, was the number chase. Each week brought a different number that we 'had' to make. Sometimes, the divy's would make up some new number that we had never heard of before, no matter, it was hell-fire if you were at the bottom of that rank-and-rate. And finally, Stops Per Car. There is no worse measure of 'how we did' than stops per car. It didn't matter, if you saved 10,000 on road, zero late air, and every driver was off the clock by 5:00. If you missed stops per car, you were scum. All that served to do was drive home the point that I was to follow instructions, not make decisions.

    To sum up, what has turned into an essay. When I started, I thought I knew how to be decent. However, the corporate culture at UPS is not one that allows people to be both successful (as measured by promotions), and decent. Much of what many people see as the problem is driven from the top down, and by corporate culture. Therefore, except in extraordinary cases, the actions of your front-line supervisors and managers are being manipulated (sometimes without their knowledge) by forces beyond their control thus turning them from 'decent' people.
  11. EAM_Master

    EAM_Master Part-Time'er for Life!

    ^^^ Very well said man.
  12. Channahon

    Channahon New Member

    Is there really a need for UPS management? Should the company be structured another way?
  13. EAM_Master

    EAM_Master Part-Time'er for Life!

    There is a place for it, but why do they have to micro-mange the crap out of everything? I think if they let the center managers run their centers the way they know best things wouldn't be as bad. When you get much above the center level, they really don't have a very good idea of what's going on on the "Front lines", yet they think they know it all.
  14. dillweed

    dillweed Well-Known Member

    UPS has a way of taking decent human beings with some common sense, tearing them down to nothing then rebuilding them as desired. There's most of your management team.
  15. Zypher22

    Zypher22 New Member

    Or maybe they pay so much less in payroll and benefits........
  16. Just Lurking

    Just Lurking Member

    Upper management needs to lower management to fail because it allows them to justify cutting lower management bonus while padding their bonus
  17. psstdrvr

    psstdrvr Member

    Zypher, try reading the previous posts... maybe then you can understand what the real problems are with this company. Its the attitude and the arrogance of upper management. Once they finally realize this then change can come, if not business and morale will continue spiralling down the drain.
  18. psstdrvr

    psstdrvr Member

    How true and very accurate of the true management work ethic at UPS. This should be copied and posted at every center in the nation so people can really see the truth.
  19. 001212

    001212 Guest

    That's another operation that should have been shut down 10 years ago.

    Just so you know...
  20. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Now thats an interesting thought. care to expand on it?