Seasonal personal vehicle package delivery driver

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
Ignorance of the law is an excuse that seldom holds up in court. Then again when comes to sheer ignorance .....no better example of it then you.

It isn't a case of ignorance (other than yours). If you're doing that kind of work and you're involved in an accident, don't tell the other driver or your insurance company that you were working out of your car. That may be hard for you to grasp.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
It isn't a case of ignorance (other than yours). If you're doing that kind of work and you're involved in an accident, don't tell the other driver or your insurance company that you were working out of your car. That may be hard for you to grasp.

Wouldn't the DOT magnetic placard (or Uber/Lyft sign) on the side of your car be a dead give away?
 

burrheadd

KING Of GIFS
It isn't a case of ignorance (other than yours). If you're doing that kind of work and you're involved in an accident, don't tell the other driver or your insurance company that you were working out of your car. That may be hard for you to grasp.

you don’t think the cops going to want to know why your cars is packed full of cardboard
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
Wouldn't the DOT magnetic placard (or Uber/Lyft sign) on the side of your car be a dead give away?

Not if you don't have it on your car.

you don’t think the cops going to want to know why your cars is packed full of cardboard

According to 2 ops mangers who delivered pkgs out of their cars and were both involved in accidents, the cops don't give a flip. They want to know if anyone is hurt, what happened, and they'll tell you where you can pick up a copy of the police report.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
It isn't a case of ignorance (other than yours). If you're doing that kind of work and you're involved in an accident, don't tell the other driver or your insurance company that you were working out of your car. That may be hard for you to grasp.
In my state in the event of an accident you are required to exchange insurance information with the other party. As was mentioned earlier the police report in addition to any potential moving violations might take note of the passenger compartment being filled with packages to the point that it blocked the rear view mirror or were unsecured inside that passenger compartment.

And Dano, what if the car catches on fire and the boxes are burned? Do you think UPS or whoever's boxes are on board won't subrogate in a effort to recoup the loss?

You obviously never thought about these possibilities.......So who's the ignorant one now?
 

scooby0048

This page left intentionally blank
My called my insurer (State Farm) about it. Their position is clear when it comes to running a commercial delivery service on a priivate vehicle policy

Article 40(i)
When an employee uses his/her own vehicle in the service of the Employer and is involved in an accident, the Employer shall be responsible for the damages to both the employee’s vehicle and to the other person’s vehicle and/or property, and will provide liability insurance coverage.


So in the context of the law, would a PVD be considered an employee or contractor? I wouldn't wish for anyone to to be involved in a collision but I would be curious to see how this would be handled. Under this article, you wouldn't have to notify your own insurance company in the event of a collision.
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
It isn't a case of ignorance (other than yours). If you're doing that kind of work and you're involved in an accident, don't tell the other driver or your insurance company that you were working out of your car. That may be hard for you to grasp.
Thank you for your guidance there Captain Clueless.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Article 40(i)
When an employee uses his/her own vehicle in the service of the Employer and is involved in an accident, the Employer shall be responsible for the damages to both the employee’s vehicle and to the other person’s vehicle and/or property, and will provide liability insurance coverage.


So in the context of the law, would a PVD be considered an employee or contractor? I wouldn't wish for anyone to to be involved in a collision but I would be curious to see how this would be handled. Under this article, you wouldn't have to notify your own insurance company in the event of a collision.
If he/she is determined to be an employee then would the bodily injury fall under the auto insurance coverage or would it be a workman's comp claim? Then too if the individual is determined to be or is classified as an independent contractor then it's goodbye Charlie.
 

scooby0048

This page left intentionally blank
If he/she is determined to be an employee then would the bodily injury fall under the auto insurance coverage or would it be a workman's comp claim? Then too if the individual is determined to be or is classified as an independent contractor then it's goodbye Charlie.
Both very good points.
 

dmac1

Well-Known Member
Anyone using their own vehicle uninsured for commercial use is not going to be worried about getting sued. They likely have little to sue for and the attorneys would go after the big fish. And if the 'employer' is putting a lot of restrictions on the driver, then he is an employee, and the attorneys and courts know this already. It is only the poor sap who doesn't know. I fought and won twice for employee status when the employer said I was a contractor and won both times. and after I won against fedex, was asked to join the class action suit, which was also won, with a ruling from the courts, and instruction to try to settle damages out of court, which the attorneys did. But the case was won in court on a personal level, that applied only to me BEFORE the attorneys got involved and made it a class action. It isn't that difficult to prove employee status if it really exists.
 

dmac1

Well-Known Member
Also some employers offer coverage while working. Decades ago, as a Pizza Hut delivery driver, Pizza Hut covered me while working. I didn't even need to notify my regular insurer.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Article 40(i)
When an employee uses his/her own vehicle in the service of the Employer and is involved in an accident, the Employer shall be responsible for the damages to both the employee’s vehicle and to the other person’s vehicle and/or property, and will provide liability insurance coverage.


So in the context of the law, would a PVD be considered an employee or contractor? I wouldn't wish for anyone to to be involved in a collision but I would be curious to see how this would be handled. Under this article, you wouldn't have to notify your own insurance company in the event of a collision.

PVD's are IC's and as such need to secure their own insurance. Or make sure they don't hit nothin'.
 

scooby0048

This page left intentionally blank
And if the 'employer' is putting a lot of restrictions on the driver, then he is an employee, and the attorneys and courts know this already. I fought and won twice for employee status when the employer said I was a contractor and won both times.

PVD's are IC's and as such need to secure their own insurance.

The article I cited says that the company would be responsible for damages to both parties if an employee uses a personal vehicle for company business. I agree that the PVD should have insurance no matter what, but the argument is whether the company would classify the PVD as an employee and cover them AND whether a court of law would classify them as an employee or IC.

People are saying that their insurance would not cover a PVD involved in a collision because that PVD was basically working as a delivery company. So even though there is an article claiming to cover personal vehicles in the event of a collision, the question remains,

Is the PVD an employee thus afforded the protection of the article I cited. Or, is the PVD an IC afforded no company protection and left to their own resources in the event of a collision? This would be an interesting case to present to the courts. Personally, in my experience, I would tend to think the courts would see the PVD as an employee of UPS.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
In my state in the event of an accident you are required to exchange insurance information with the other party. As was mentioned earlier the police report in addition to any potential moving violations might take note of the passenger compartment being filled with packages to the point that it blocked the rear view mirror or were unsecured inside that passenger compartment.

And?

And Dano, what if the car catches on fire and the boxes are burned? Do you think UPS or whoever's boxes are on board won't subrogate in a effort to recoup the loss?

OR WHAT IF THE CAR DRIVES OFF A 200 FOOT CLIFF AND THE BOXES ARE CRUSHED, DANO? WHAT ABOUT THAT, DANO? OF WHAT IF A HERD OF CATTLE STAMPEDE AND CRAP ALL OVER THE BOXES, DANO? DIDJA THINK OF THAT?

Let's see. What are the odds that a car is going to catch fire WITH a bunch of FedEx or UPS packages in it? I'm guessing slim to none.

You obviously never thought about these possibilities.......So who's the ignorant one now?

AND WHAT IF THE CAR IS SUCKED INTO SPACE BY A TRACTOR BEAM FROM A UFO AND ALL THE PACKAGES ARE OPENED AND USED BY ALIENS, DANO? THEN WHAT?????

There's an incredible book called Algorithms to Live By and it has to do with processing information and making decisions and so on. Part of one chapter addresses optimal stopping and other similar concepts when it comes to analyzing the available data to come to increase your likelihood of making good choices. Anyhoodle, at some time in the process each person reaches a point (similar to the Pareto principle) where any additional thought/consideration is wasteful because it focuses on things that are increasingly impractical and unlikely.

You seem to spend a lot of time there. Congratulations on spending most of your time on such trivial matters.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
Article 40(i)
When an employee uses his/her own vehicle in the service of the Employer and is involved in an accident, the Employer shall be responsible for the damages to both the employee’s vehicle and to the other person’s vehicle and/or property, and will provide liability insurance coverage.


So in the context of the law, would a PVD be considered an employee or contractor? I wouldn't wish for anyone to to be involved in a collision but I would be curious to see how this would be handled. Under this article, you wouldn't have to notify your own insurance company in the event of a collision.

So who's the ignorant one now?

This just cracks me the hell up.
 
Top