Snow ='s no missed Pkgs

some1else

Well-Known Member
I don't like getting stuck and I don't take any chances. If I have any doubts about going down a road, I don't go. I always let my center team know how many I'm going to be bringing back and always ask "How do you want me to sheet these? ECD, missed, not ready, what?" I really don't care how they get sheeted, it's their company and their decision.
the big difference is missed the customer/shipper can get there money back, ecd they do not correct?

705 im not sure im with you; i thought ECD meant THAT STOP had weather conditions such that you can not del the package. obviously if it is snowy and you are distpatched with your regular 10hrs of work to finish in 9.5 you will not finish; but should the customer still have to pay for their shipping? if ups doesnt want to add enough drivers to deliver the packages they should not be falsifying records and still charging customers.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
The ones I have a big problem with is the misload for another route across town. There are no semantics to justify sheeting these packages as emergency condition. To me this is the most glaring abuse of this type of package disposition.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
the big difference is missed the customer/shipper can get there money back, ecd they do not correct?

705 im not sure im with you; i thought ECD meant THAT STOP had weather conditions such that you can not del the package. obviously if it is snowy and you are distpatched with your regular 10hrs of work to finish in 9.5 you will not finish; but should the customer still have to pay for their shipping? if ups doesnt want to add enough drivers to deliver the packages they should not be falsifying records and still charging customers.
Maybe so, but since it's not my company and not my decision, why should I worry about it? I get paid to WAD. They tell me to sheet them as ECD, I sheet them ECD.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Maybe so, but since it's not my company and not my decision, why should I worry about it? I get paid to WAD. They tell me to sheet them as ECD, I sheet them ECD.
Jones I've noticed that this is your stock answer to most issues. While I believe this a solid disposition when we are on the clock, bear in mind that the Brown Cafe is a place where an otherwise irrelevant opinion becomes relevant. To continually reiterate what we hear all day from management seems contrary to to to the spirit of the discussion in some contexts, but I suppose it's your right. Just an observation.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Jones I've noticed that this is your stock answer to most issues. While I believe this a solid disposition when we are on the clock, bear in mind that the Brown Cafe is a place where an otherwise irrelevant opinion becomes relevant. To continually reiterate what we hear all day from management seems contrary to [-]to to [/-]the spirit of the discussion in some contexts, but I suppose it's your right. Just an observation.

Sometimes my (not to) smart phone developes a studder.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Jones I've noticed that this is your stock answer to most issues. While I believe this a solid disposition when we are on the clock, bear in mind that the Brown Cafe is a place where an otherwise irrelevant opinion becomes relevant. To continually reiterate what we hear all day from management seems contrary to to to the spirit of the discussion in some contexts, but I suppose it's your right. Just an observation.
It's not my stock answer to everything, but it's certainly my stock answer to the decisions at UPS that are beyond my control/outside my jurisdiction. I used to get a lot more worked up about stuff like this, but the truth is that if you really care about the way the company is run then you should consider putting your letter in. I'm not saying that to be facetious, I'm serious. There are a lot of interesting and useful things/ideas that I read on this forum, but at the end of the day it's just shop talk from drivers and won't affect the way UPS operates. The only way to really change the way the company does business is from the management side of the house. I don't mind reading what other people have to say about this stuff, and I don't think it's contrary to the spirit of the discussion to offer my opinion. And it really is just my opinion at the end of the day.
 

NHDRVR

Well-Known Member
I will walk through snow depending on the driveway. If I remember it being ice-free prior to the storm then it's no problem. If I remember that the home owner is scared to death of physical labor and is allergic to shovels then they can wait... I fall about 2-3 times a year. I don't need to risk it any more than that.
 

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
Maybe so, but since it's not my company and not my decision, why should I worry about it? I get paid to WAD. They tell me to sheet them as ECD, I sheet them ECD.

I will walk through snow depending on the driveway. If I remember it being ice-free prior to the storm then it's no problem. If I remember that the home owner is scared to death of physical labor and is allergic to shovels then they can wait... I fall about 2-3 times a year. I don't need to risk it any more than that.
I agree totally with Jones, if the weather is atrocious as it is / and continues to be, drivers should not be dispatched with the normal loads. If UPS really cared about service, it would dispatch allowing for the severe weather, instead of using ECD as a dispatch tool. But whether its 80 and sunny or 0 with 2 ft of snow, as smart as UPS is in every other technical area, they cant figure out the time allowed/needed to safely do the job is way different. Someday maybe they will, probably the same time they figure out Christmas is always, always on December 25th.

As for the physical condition of walkways/steps/access areas, I take into account
1. Is there a large % of chance I could get hurt, such as no handrail on icy steps, High snow on steps
2. What I feel is in the package, and is it imperative they get it today.
3. Is the resident in need of this, and has no control over the conditions outside.
Ill take a chance on busting my butt if its medicine, med equipment for someone I know is handicap, or bedridden.
I wont take that chance for someone I know is capable and is waiting for the sun to melt it.
 

Old Shoes

Member
Just like on friday, at 5:45 PM I was sent a message to do my last pickup and head back to the building. I'll admit it was getting very bad out! I sheeted the last 16 stops as ERC. I guess I could have gotten a few more stops but remember saftey first! Also when given a direct order you must follow it or it's failure to follow instructions. But yes it does make you look better because ERC's count as a stop as missed does not. Come on now I've been here almost 30 years! UPS is always right, aren't they!!!!!!!!Really they should take the SERVICE off our name. It's all about the numbers....
 
Actually they did remove "service" from our name, officially the company name is now UPS not Untied Parcel Service.
 
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Omega man

Well-Known Member
This has nothing to do with a driver’s decision to not attempt a delivery because of unsafe conditions. The original post asks why UPS uses EC to hide what are truly missed pieces. UPS describes a missed piece as: any package out for delivery but never attempted. Management is unethically using a valid reason (EC) to hide their dispatch failures. If a driver is over dispatched, subject to curfew, and can't deliver whole areas because of snow or whatever those packages should be recorded as missed. If a driver makes a valid attempt such as driving to the stop and encountering an impassible road or driveway the package should be recorded as EC. If you are ordered to sheet packages EC that you know really should be recorded as missed, work as directed. We all know they are a bunch of cheats. Use the duplicate stop function as well so they don't get credit for the stops.
 

Dustyroads

Well-Known Member
A couple of times in my 31 years career, we didn't put the dozen or so extended areas out on the street due to blizzard conditions. In one of those cases, they called us at home, telling us that all of the major arteries leading out of the city were closed. The second time, most of the extended drivers made it to work; out here, lots of guys have 4 wheel drive suv's and trucks. However, the major highways leading out of town were closed, we were offered to go home without pay, or we could work, albeit on an area in town somewhere. Believe it or not, all of us decided to go home. Drifts on the major Interestate highway going through town were 12 feet deep. So, those 75 packages that were on my car that day, should those have been missed, after all we didn't drive down to that driveway to make the decision to not try it? I don't think so. The city was closed down in these instances, there was no mail service, no city, state or federal workers, except for emergency workers. Obviously, ECD should apply.

These are all just numbers we are talking about. If I'm instructed to sheet them as ECD, then that is what I will do. If I make any decision with regard to a package in deference to conditions, then I will sheet it as ECD as well. If my management team decides it's too bad to even leave the building and want me to sheet everything in my truck as ECD, again, I will do that. It's really just numbers so the management team can see what was delivered, and what is coming back to the retain.

As for refunds, due to bad weather and driving conditions, and our obligations with regard to guarantees of service, I think those rules all apply, regardless of what I may sheet a package's disposition.

As for putting enough drivers and areas on the street to make it possible to deliver everything during snowstorms, that is simply unrealistic. I think that must be a suggestion of a metro driver. You couldn't put enough drivers on the street to deliver all of the packages on my area when we get a foot of snow. I don't care if you had 20 package cars and drivers to do my area.
 

hdkappler

Well-Known Member
i remember when i drove.had a bad snow plus a curfew.i was lucky and got rid of my out of the way or hard res.stops.i had one easy section you could run 30-35 stops in an hour.that was the section i would do last and sheet as missed.course this section was easy .that's why i would do this last.one time i had 25 only sheeted 20.anyway it got done the next day or that mon.
 

whiskey

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure you do understand my point Dusty.
You and others continue to go off on tangents about when the driver decides to sheet a package as emergency conditions.
While the stories are entertaining and a good read in some cases, I didn't think they were parallel to the original topic.
I understood this thread to be about management using EC as a cover up tool to hide service failures that were not weather related.
Service failures such as late air and misloads would be examples.
Maybe I took this from the original post and that wasn't their intent, but that was the point I was making.


ditto
 

beatupbrown

Well-Known Member
So I am watching the weather channel behold what are the showing in D.C Abandon Street with a UPS truck stuck. I think back what are center manger told us one time with a huge snow storm you are professional drivers no go out there .Guess what happens when you go out in a foot of more of snow you get stuck. I would say that is a dangerous situation the odds of having accident go up expediently.
 
In our center, if you get stuck in snow, mud or whatever and a tow truck is required, you will be charged with a preventable accident.
 

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
As for putting enough drivers and areas on the street to make it possible to deliver everything during snowstorms, that is simply unrealistic. I think that must be a suggestion of a metro driver. You couldn't put enough drivers on the street to deliver all of the packages on my area when we get a foot of snow. I don't care if you had 20 package cars and drivers to do my area.

In this storm, all bets are off. Someone called me yesterday at 3pm, to come get my NDA. What a nightmare that would be, trying to service NDA and make pickups. Im on vacation, but I can only imagine, what its like out there. Thank God I took the week off. I was talking about just a normal snowstorm, 4 to 6 inches, which immoblizes the area, because they dont know how to plow. Dont send the guys out with 10.5 days, put in one or two more routes, and keep everyone at 8, they would have a better chance at servicing most, and getting in at 10.5. That can and should be done for safety and service.
 

rod

Retired 22 years
You have to remember that all the "desk drivers" on here don't have a clue how tough it is to drivie a UPS truck in winter conditions. Rear wheel drive and slippery roads don't mix well. They all drove their wives 4 X 4 SUV's to work and the last time they walked to the water fountain they didn't slip and fall so they assume conditions outdoors must be good also.
 
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