Southwest Travel Benefits "Suspended" - Awesome

[MrFedEx]

Actually as is evidenced by FedEx thus far, it could still be classified as an airling.

"FedEx" is now FedEx Ground, Freight, LTL, Trade Networks, Custom Critical, and so forth. The airline portion of that octopus of divisions is rather small. UPS is divided in a similar fashion, so why aren't their airline operations considered as an "express carrier" for purposes of the RLA exemption too?

 

[bbsam]

"FedEx" is now FedEx Ground, Freight, LTL, Trade Networks, Custom Critical, and so forth. The airline portion of that octopus of divisions is rather small. UPS is divided in a similar fashion, so why aren't their airline operations considered as an "express carrier" for purposes of the RLA exemption too?

Don't know. I know that in the past they tried to get that classification and failed. Instead of continuing to make that case, they want Fedex's classification changed to their own.

 

[MrFedEx]

Don't know. I know that in the past they tried to get that classification and failed. Instead of continuing to make that case, they want Fedex's classification changed to their own.

Yep, they did try. So I guess they should both be under the UPS classification, right?

 

[quadro]

Yep, they did try. So I guess they should both be under the UPS classification, right?

No. I don't remember all the details but I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find the info. UPS was denied RLA classification because they had previously argued in court against it. They wanted to keep the NLRA classification I believe because of tax issues (possibly excise taxes). Because they had argued successfully to keep their NLRA status, when they then wanted to change to RLA the court in essence said "you've made your bed".

Do you honestly believe that FedEx offers 75% discount to airlines just so Fred can "keep the airline facade intact"? I realize you don't like or respect Fred and your are certainly entitled to feel that way but that's not why the airlines get a discount and some of them get more than 75%. FedEx can and does offer discounts to non-airline customers and some of those discounts are large. FedEx doesn't do that because Fred wants people to think FedEx is a car manufacturer or etailer, etc, just as FedEx doesn't offer discounts to airlines just to make people think FedEx is an airline.

FedEx offers those discounts so that it can negotiate reciprocal agreements that allow our pilots to be flown on commercial airlines at substantial discounts. There are many, many times when crews have to be moved around etc and jumpseat on FedEx aircraft isn't always an option. The discounts simply help save money on those commercial tickets. The personal travel discounts and shipping discounts offered to airline employees are simply by-products of those agreements.

 

[SmithBarney]

No. I don't remember all the details but I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find the info. UPS was denied RLA classification because they had previously argued in court against it. They wanted to keep the NLRA classification I believe because of tax issues (possibly excise taxes). Because they had argued successfully to keep their NLRA status, when they then wanted to change to RLA the court in essence said "you've made your bed".

Do you honestly believe that FedEx offers 75% discount to airlines just so Fred can "keep the airline facade intact"? I realize you don't like or respect Fred and your are certainly entitled to feel that way but that's not why the airlines get a discount and some of them get more than 75%. FedEx can and does offer discounts to non-airline customers and some of those discounts are large. FedEx doesn't do that because Fred wants people to think FedEx is a car manufacturer or etailer, etc, just as FedEx doesn't offer discounts to airlines just to make people think FedEx is an airline.

FedEx offers those discounts so that it can negotiate reciprocal agreements that allow our pilots to be flown on commercial airlines at substantial discounts. There are many, many times when crews have to be moved around etc and jumpseat on FedEx aircraft isn't always an option. The discounts simply help save money on those commercial tickets. The personal travel discounts and shipping discounts offered to airline employees are simply by-products of those agreements.

Too bad our reciprocal agreement puts us at the bottom of the standby flight list.
We are the lowest rank when it comes to standby, all other airlines fly before us..
Too bad we can't bump those 75% discounted shipments to ground,(the equivalent of
getting bumped from a flight and having to rent a car to travel) With 80% of most flights overbooked, chances of getting a normal flight is slim.

 

[quadro]

Too bad our reciprocal agreement puts us at the bottom of the standby flight list.
We are the lowest rank when it comes to standby, all other airlines fly before us..
Too bad we can't bump those 75% discounted shipments to ground,(the equivalent of
getting bumped from a flight and having to rent a car to travel) With 80% of most flights overbooked, chances of getting a normal flight is slim.

And your point is??? Again, the personal discounts are simply a by-product of the business agreements. It's up to each airline to determine their standby procedures. If that puts FedEx employees at the bottom of the list so be it. I'm not sure off the top of my head but do UPS employees get discount travel? If they do, they are no higher or lower on the standby lists than FedEx employees.

We can bump those 75% discounted employee shipments if we need to. There is no delivery commitment on them.

Airlines have done a much better job of reducing capacity over the last few years in attempts to turn a profit. That absolutely has made standby travel much harder. Not just for NRSA travel but also for their own paying customers who want to change flights.

If you use the free tools that are out there to check loads on flights, you can definitely improve your chances of successfully using a non-rev ticket. Keep in mind that often times the discounted ticket is as much and sometimes more than a confirmed ticket and not worth buying.

80% of flights might be overbooked but 80% of them are not oversold which means that they go out with at least an empty seat or two.

 

[bbsam]

Yep, they did try. So I guess they should both be under the UPS classification, right?

They should go about their business as should Fedex under whatever governing document covers their company.

 

[MrFedEx]

They should go about their business as should Fedex under whatever governing document covers their company.

Good try. FedEx has a special deal...bottom line. UPS and FedEx perform the same services using the same methods. They should both be under the same classification.

 

[MrFedEx]

No. I don't remember all the details but I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find the info. UPS was denied RLA classification because they had previously argued in court against it. They wanted to keep the NLRA classification I believe because of tax issues (possibly excise taxes). Because they had argued successfully to keep their NLRA status, when they then wanted to change to RLA the court in essence said "you've made your bed".

Do you honestly believe that FedEx offers 75% discount to airlines just so Fred can "keep the airline facade intact"? I realize you don't like or respect Fred and your are certainly entitled to feel that way but that's not why the airlines get a discount and some of them get more than 75%. FedEx can and does offer discounts to non-airline customers and some of those discounts are large. FedEx doesn't do that because Fred wants people to think FedEx is a car manufacturer or etailer, etc, just as FedEx doesn't offer discounts to airlines just to make people think FedEx is an airline.

FedEx offers those discounts so that it can negotiate reciprocal agreements that allow our pilots to be flown on commercial airlines at substantial discounts. There are many, many times when crews have to be moved around etc and jumpseat on FedEx aircraft isn't always an option. The discounts simply help save money on those commercial tickets. The personal travel discounts and shipping discounts offered to airline employees are simply by-products of those agreements.

Crews jumpseating or flying non-rev are a small part of the equation. Our ID75 flight privileges are a drop in the bucket compared to the big bucks the airlines save by shipping all of their pkgs at 75% off standard rates. It's also certainly true that we give big discounts to big shippers, which has nothing to do with being an "airline".

You don't think FedEx thinks it's important to be thought of or classified as an airline instead of a systems integrator or pkg delivery firm? That is the very essence of the RLA argument, which is that we are an "express carrier", unlike UPS, which is a "pkg delivery company". Sorry, but both UPS and FedEx move their pkgs the same way. Why isn't UPS also an "airline"? They've got almost as many aircraft as we do, a parallel hub system that does the same thing ours do, and a fleet of vehicles that deliver the pkgs the airplanes transport from point A to point B. What makes us so special?

 

[quadro]

Crews jumpseating or flying non-rev are a small part of the equation. Our ID75 flight privileges are a drop in the bucket compared to the big bucks the airlines save by shipping all of their pkgs at 75% off standard rates. It's also certainly true that we give big discounts to big shippers, which has nothing to do with being an "airline".

You don't think FedEx thinks it's important to be thought of or classified as an airline instead of a systems integrator or pkg delivery firm? That is the very essence of the RLA argument, which is that we are an "express carrier", unlike UPS, which is a "pkg delivery company". Sorry, but both UPS and FedEx move their pkgs the same way. Why isn't UPS also an "airline"? They've got almost as many aircraft as we do, a parallel hub system that does the same thing ours do, and a fleet of vehicles that deliver the pkgs the airplanes transport from point A to point B. What makes us so special?

Given that we are not likely to agree on this subject, I offer this information as food for thought. I do not mean for it to be argumentative.

Depending on your definition of "the same way", UPS may or may not move packages the same way. If one defines it as someone picks it up, it gets transported, and someone delivers it, then essentially it is the same way. However, if one defines it as someone picks it up and then there's about an 85% chance it will go on an aircraft with one company but an 85% chance it will go on a truck with the other, and then someone delivers it, then, no, they don't move their packages the same way.

UPS is an airline. Or at least part of UPS, Inc. is an airline. Keep in mind that back in the 90's UPS wanted to be covered under the RLA and FedEx supported that move. Not sure if it was the courts, NMB, or both that told UPS no.

There's an article out there somewhere that makes a good point about a better name for the RLA would be the TLA, Transportation Labor Act and should cover companies such as UPS and FedEx. After all, there should be no doubt that UPS' strike in 1997 disrupted interstate commerce. Had UPS been under RLA then, the strike might not have happened and the IBT might not have got what it wanted vis-a-vis the pension fund.

There's all this rhetoric out there about UPS and FedEx should be classified the same way and that way has to be under the NLRA. Why? Why does it have to be the NLRA? Why can't it be under the RLA? The simple reason is that the IBT doesn't want it that way because they know how hard it would be to organize FedEx and the cost doesn't justify the potential revenue. And UPS doesn't want it that way because they know that if FedEx is reclassified under the NLRA, there's a good chance that it will give UPS a competitive advantage so why not go along for the ride.

All that aside, the airline discounts have nothing to do with the perception of an airline. I would imagine that UPS gets discounts at least for its pilots and should FedEx change to NLRA, FedEx will still get those discounts for its pilots.

 

[SmithBarney]

And your point is???...I'm not sure off the top of my head but do UPS employees get discount travel?...

They don't need a discount, they can afford the tickets cause they get paid better.

 

[Washu234]

Given that we are not likely to agree on this subject, I offer this information as food for thought. I do not mean for it to be argumentative.

Depending on your definition of "the same way", UPS may or may not move packages the same way. If one defines it as someone picks it up, it gets transported, and someone delivers it, then essentially it is the same way. However, if one defines it as someone picks it up and then there's about an 85% chance it will go on an aircraft with one company but an 85% chance it will go on a truck with the other, and then someone delivers it, then, no, they don't move their packages the same way.

UPS is an airline. Or at least part of UPS, Inc. is an airline. Keep in mind that back in the 90's UPS wanted to be covered under the RLA and FedEx supported that move. Not sure if it was the courts, NMB, or both that told UPS no.

There's an article out there somewhere that makes a good point about a better name for the RLA would be the TLA, Transportation Labor Act and should cover companies such as UPS and FedEx. After all, there should be no doubt that UPS' strike in 1997 disrupted interstate commerce. Had UPS been under RLA then, the strike might not have happened and the IBT might not have got what it wanted vis-a-vis the pension fund.

There's all this rhetoric out there about UPS and FedEx should be classified the same way and that way has to be under the NLRA. Why? Why does it have to be the NLRA? Why can't it be under the RLA? The simple reason is that the IBT doesn't want it that way because they know how hard it would be to organize FedEx and the cost doesn't justify the potential revenue. And UPS doesn't want it that way because they know that if FedEx is reclassified under the NLRA, there's a good chance that it will give UPS a competitive advantage so why not go along for the ride.

All that aside, the airline discounts have nothing to do with the perception of an airline. I would imagine that UPS gets discounts at least for its pilots and should FedEx change to NLRA, FedEx will still get those discounts for its pilots.

I got in an argument with a guy on Youtube using this very same logic. He said it was unfair for FedEx to have an advantage therefore they should be reclassified to which I retorted - oh ok, so because someone out there has no legs should I cut mine off too? Dude somehow took that as me agreeing with him.

Apparently when FedEx was in its infant stages TEAMSTERS actually pushed against FedEx from having an intrastate license with DOT. It was because of this that for the longest time a package sent down the street had to be sent through memphis for interstate movement.

I don't get how Teamsters has called FedEx an airline in the past but now they're all 'nope they're just like us!'

 

[MrFedEx]

I got in an argument with a guy on Youtube using this very same logic. He said it was unfair for FedEx to have an advantage therefore they should be reclassified to which I retorted - oh ok, so because someone out there has no legs should I cut mine off too? Dude somehow took that as me agreeing with him.

Apparently when FedEx was in its infant stages TEAMSTERS actually pushed against FedEx from having an intrastate license with DOT. It was because of this that for the longest time a package sent down the street had to be sent through memphis for interstate movement.

I don't get how Teamsters has called FedEx an airline in the past but now they're all 'nope they're just like us!'

UPS and FedEx move most of their air pkgs via the same methods (aircraft). UPS and FedEx move most of their ground pkgs via the same methods (truck and rail). Both companies have numerous operating divisions as well that essentially perform parallel functions.

Way back in 1973 the point could have been made that FedEx was an "airline" much more strongly than today. It probably made sense for the Teamsters to make that argument then because they were trying to protect their bread and butter (UPS). Consider the company now vs. then. Air pkgs frequently move via Ground, and Ground pkgs very frequently move on FedEx aircraft. That certainly wasn't the case back in 1973. FedEx doesn't want you (or the regulators) knowing just how integrated the Ground and Air networks have become. For example, as far as I know all Ground shipments destined for Alaska move on FedEx aircraft. This is probably the case for other locations as well, especially now that our planes aren't running completely full of Express pkgs.

That means we are no longer an "express carrier", as Fred would like you to believe. The airline is only a component of the larger organization, not the essence of the company, especially since Express is no longer the growth sector of Fedex...Ground is.

 

[Washu234]

Just an update for jetBlue - talked to a FA over at flyertalk and they said:

"Jetblue has placed a temporary stop on all non-revenue travel. Both within the company and for other airlines while we switch over to the sabre reservation system. The restrictions should be lifted after the 5th of February and non-revenue priviliages should be reinstated at that time. The only non-revenue people allowed to travel during that time are the pilots and flight attendants who commute to work. Even CASS approved pilots and airlines are restricted from travel. Its only temproary!! "

So jetBlue privileges are back early February!!!

 

[SmithBarney]

Did you see the new Delta Deal! look it up on the home page, I stumbled across it... isn't it nice our managers keep us informed...

 

[Washu234]

Did you see the new Delta Deal! look it up on the home page, I stumbled across it... isn't it nice our managers keep us informed...

I didn't? What is it?

 

[Washu234]

Just heard! $100 Round Trip on Delta Airlines Domestic Travel! Great deal!!!

 

[SmithBarney]

You'll have to search on the home.fedex.com page from work (I can't remember all the details) but the international rates are outstanding.

 

[Washu234]

US Travel (All 50 States including Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands)
One Way - $50 Round Trip - $100
Canada, Mexico, and Caribbean (including Bermuda)
One Way - $100 Round Trip - $200

Global Fare I - US Delta City to Europe, Central/South America
Round Trip - $375
Global Fare II - US Delta City to Africa, Asia, Australia or Middle East
Round Trip - $450

All Prices are before taxes. All prices are before $18 Global Travel Fee. All Prices for STAND BY Travel.

Plan wisely my friends and you can use this truly amazing perk.

 

[Fedex Driver]

this is awesome news!