space and vis

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by canoworms, Feb 9, 2007.

  1. canoworms

    canoworms Member

    I had my annual space and vis yesterday and the supe found one thing wrong. He said he needed to find more than that wrong, so I threw him three bones. Has anybody else had this happen?
  2. canon

    canon Member

    On every space and visibility ride.

    It is beyond their comprehension that maybe, after years and years of THEIR OWN training, we might somehow be able to apply what we've learned. I'm not sure if this is a reflection of their low opinion of drivers, or of their lack of confidence in the ability of management to properly train people. I'll bet the results would be much different if they were released to the public: "All of our drivers score 100% in driving safety!"

    Deducts from the legitimacy of the training imo. So much for integrity.
  3. Cementups

    Cementups Box Monkey

    This is why i always doa couple things wrong. I forget to grab my handrail on purpose and ack when I don't need to. My one supe didn't find it amusing when I was driving with my knees but it gave him something to write down.
  4. Channahon

    Channahon New Member

    Congrats on your driving skills, which I know are challenging every day out there. Auto accidents had been out of control for a couple of years. Particularly backing accidents, with cameras being installed in the cars. A very hot issue with Corporate and Region Safety. The management teams have been challenged on the quality of observations. If a supervisor says you are following the seeing habits, it should be documented as such. The first rides of the year should be with drivers who had the most accidents in the previous year. I won't name the district, but an employee had real issues with injuries and auto accidents, to the tune of 15 accidents and 20 injuries in 5 years. He was a nice enough guy, but was always on the radar screen. One day he flipped his package car on the interstate, nearly killed him, took out a guardrail and closed the interstate, which delayed most of his co workers to their routes. He finally lost his job at UPS, was not bitter when let go, and UPS probably saved his life.
    He was not suited for a job at UPS, but had been a great part timer in the hub.
  5. canoworms

    canoworms Member

    For half my life UPS has been drilling into me the 340 methods and I have drunk the kool-ade. Now that I've become Mister Training Video Method Guy the company does not want to believe that their driver has actually digested and regirgitated what I have been fed. What gives?
  6. Dutch Dawg

    Dutch Dawg Active Member

    Silly you.....if evaluation were unable to find fault with your methods, there would be no need for improvement and further evaluation. Should that occur, the concept of subsequent loftier goals at UPS would be at risk. Obviously you need to watch a few more training films to grasp this concept and someone needs to have a talk with your supervisor if he found less than four faults during your last evaulation.
  7. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Yep actually agree. lets raise the bar way up high and make everyone the safest driver we can make them.
  8. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    " I threw him three bones."

    I wonder if you hadn't thrown him the bones..... Would he have lied and made up 3 things????
  9. Covemastah

    Covemastah we keep you alive to serve this ship

    no one should be a training saftey supe unless they did package for 10 yrs without an avoidable accident!! just my opinion,but how is a guy out of college maybe 1 or 2 yrs in pkge then onto supervision show a guy with 15 / 20 yrs on the road without any accidents how to drive better ,this is not a slam to mngmnt, but the vet has years of safe driving,and a new kid is gonna dis him!!! dosnt seem right to me!!!!
  10. canon

    canon Member

    It then begs the question: since UPS considers it to be impossible to correctly follow proper methods, why have an evaluation? Just have more training.

    I mean, we all know how difficult it is to come to a complete stop and put the turn signal on. Back first? How can we be expected to remember that? And what a system for failure when we have to announce clear or hazard as the supe calls out left mirror, right mirror.

    Continued training is fine. Lying about a person's performance on an evaluation is dishonest. If anything, it lowers the bar... why strive for perfection when we know that is unobtainable? It ceases to be about training a driver and becomes an evaluation corporate uses for determining the effectiveness of management observation. If someone scores 100%, the company should be happy that all the years of past training has produced someone who follows proper safety methods probably on auto-pilot. If they are going to lie, why even leave the office? Just fill out the paperwork at your desk.

    Should I not try to deliver all my airs before the commit time? Should I not even try to beat the 17:00 close time on businesses? Let's face it, if I'm making perfect service everyday for years on end, how can I improve on making service?
  11. canoworms

    canoworms Member

    No he would not have made them up. I carry a copy of the 340's with me on the road. As a steward I've made it my business to know as many of these as I can since I always try to lead by example. When a noobie, whether salary or hourly, asks me a question, I want to be able to give them a clear and concise answere. A well taught sup is always an asset.
  12. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    Yes, here in feeders, the sups say they have to ding you on at least 8 marks.

    Let's see...I've been driving cars, trucks, heavy equipment for over 45 yrs with no crashes, accidents or even dings...29 yrs with this company, and you (the sup) have been driving, er, excuse me, training to drive for 3 weeks and you're gonna ding ME?

    Well, I let em grope for such things as the pin that goes through the pintle hook on the back of the tractor. "If it isn't inserted in the proper position, it might fall off and go through somebody's windshield and kill them!" Ok, that's gonna make me a safer driver? "Go ahead, mark it down". "Now, let's get the magnifying glass out and find 7 more!"

    Fluff it off and let em have their little way.
  13. Megansman

    Megansman Member

    It might be just me... but it seems that those that aren't able to do the job teach, and those that can't teach administrate, and those that can't do all three end up in safety
  14. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Cach DTS is considered by many to be the most intense school UPS has. Preperation alone requires a minimum of 4 weeks of constant drilling to get yourself ready for this three week school. Could you give us some examples of specific instructions you were given from the book that an experienced driver would not do? I'm trying to see where DTS is failing in your eyes.
  15. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    I think he's trying to say that 3 weeks of school (though intense), is not equal to 15 years of driving experience.

    The DTS graduate mentioned was so involved in his "by the book" methods that he forgot to look where he was going!

    Myself, I appreciate an OJS ride. It helps to get reminded of things that fall by the wayside. Try to think of the ride like that. Take what you can from it, and forgive the DTS grad for his actual on-road driving inexperience.
  16. canon

    canon Member

    Aww, look at the little bad rep comment tie left for me. Don't go the coward route tie, face me in here. Nobody said drivers are perfect. But for the ones that happen to know what they are doing and manage to not mess up during an evaluation, then yes the supes lack integrity when they falsify documents to make themselves look somehow more apt to find and correct fault.

    Perhaps we just have different definitions of the word integrity. I'm going by this one:

    in·teg·ri·ty (n-tgr-t)
    1. Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.
    2. The state of being unimpaired; soundness.
    3. The quality or condition of being whole or undivided; completeness.

    I am guessing you are doing nothing more than coming to your own defense as you've probably done the exact same thing many times. In my dictionary, you lack integrity. I await the definition which says it is ok to make up answers on an evaluation. It's not an attack tie, by definition this practice is unethical. The supes are just trying to make themselves look better to corporate: "Oooo good thing that supe was able to correct that driver! His observational skills probably saved us an accident!"

    I like this definition too:

    scam (skm) Slang
    A fraudulent business scheme; a swindle.
    tr.v. scammed, scam·ming, scams
    To defraud; swindle.

    It's not like we're talking about a huge secret... most drivers know the reports only serve to be cosmetic improvements for a supe's career. If we really took them seriously, there would be no need to "make up a few mistakes". Management doesn't take them seriously, so neither do I.

    See how that works? :thumbup1:
  17. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    another post showing your infatuation with management. In the process management rules your life through your obsession. I really hope you get some mental health help before its too late.
  18. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Over 9 I understand that point and he's right experience is an important attribute they can't teach in DTS. At the same time he was critical of some of the "text book" instruction given him during the ride and I was curious what it was he disagreed with.
  19. canon

    canon Member

    Tie, it's not my infatuation with management... it's your constant attempts to defend unethical management practices. Once again you dodged the obvious: does management engage in "making up mistakes" on space and vis evaluations? Too many people have said yes they do. I take this aversion to the topic to mean you're equally guilty...

    I don't make up the definitions for integrity tie... I only recognize the efforts to stray from that definition. If it doesn't apply to you, then great.

    But I'll bet it does. :lol: It's ok... we all already know.
  20. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    Tie, I don't think anyone of us would argue that DTS is the most intense school UPS has. I see Cach's point...there is no excuse for experience! We all know how important the 5 seeing eye habits are and the rest of the drill but you kinda hit it on the head when you said "constant drilling". That's all we get is "book learnin".

    How bout having one of these 3-week wonders jack-knife a 40' trailer into a 45' space (yes, one of our outlying centers/gas station/car wash/boutique was one of these).

    MY argument is this...I don't care if you ride with me everday! It don't bother me cuz I'm doing everything right and safe. You want to ding me on little jizs cuz you have to find 8, then so be it...BUT, when YOU drive and can't jam the gears/cut the curbs/can't back into a get the point? I have a problem. You're telling ME how to drive safe?

    Please don't take offense at this, it's just that I take offense at some newbie telling me how to drive that just got his license a few months ago. Which reminds me of one of our sups:
    He couldn't pass the local CDL test in this metro area, which was tougher to pass ( I dunno, maybe due to examiners being under the gun, so to speak), so mgmt took him out of town to a remote examining station (one that would still examine CDL applicants) to take the test. VIOLA! You know the rest.