Termination

[zubenelgenubi]

Listen. Your an idiot. My hypothetical had you killing my family by looking at your phone. You seem to think that as long as you glance at it, then nothing could happen. I believe and know that this is not the case. Having had direct experience in having someone wiped off this earth while raking leaves, by a person grabbing their lighter to smoke a cigarette. And another killed on their motorcycle by someone changing a radio station. Both instances were well before cell phones. So, let’s agree to disagree. I think it’s serious in any fractional degree of distracted driving. And you don’t. Your still a weird , this we can all see. Peace.

I'm sorry for your losses. it's obviously an emotional issue for you. But by your logic no one should ever drive, no one will ever be able to be as focused on driving as you think they should be. Insult me all you like, if it makes you feel better, but you can't alter reality just because you feel emotional about something.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Stupid lag.

 

[Brown echo]

Why do you like hurting me?

Why do you like hurting me?

 

[542thruNthru]

Why do you like hurting me?

 

[zubenelgenubi]

The Anatomy of a Moral Panic

In case anyone is interested, this article may give you some insight into my views on this, or any other, issue of public concern. I'm not saying the threat in this case isn't real. My concern is dealing with it in a way that will actually address the real threat, commensurate with the real severity of the threat.

I don't take the reduction of individual liberty lightly. As much as I care about the safety of my family and community, I care about their rights and freedoms as much or more. If that makes me weird, I'm ok with that.

 

[Mugarolla]

A local will automatically file a grievance for a termination.

Not true.

Their is no discipline that's a 2 week suspension.

Not true.

I've seen 3 month suspensions.

 

[soberups]

If you work in the Western Conference then no, you will not be terminated. Looking at your cell phone is not a cardinal offense. They would have to give you a warning letter first.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

If you work in the Western Conference then no, you will not be terminated. Looking at your cell phone is not a cardinal offense. They would have to give you a warning letter first.

I don't know of anywhere.... it would be considered a cardinal offense.

If it was, they should have taken him "out of service" on the spot.

 

[Mugarolla]

I don't know of anywhere.... it would be considered a cardinal offense.

Neither is workplace violence, or sexual harassment, or gross insubordination, or a few others that I'm sure you know of.

Not Cardinal sins, but you will be terminated, and possibly upheld.

Also, I'm sure you're aware, half the Arbitrators, in Arbitration cases, consider the Cardinal Sin list inclusive, and the other half consider it exclusive. Meaning Arbitrators have upheld discharges for non-cardinal sin offenses.

You actually just referenced a case, I believe.

The Administrative Law Judge concluded that he would have been terminated anyway for his Facebook comments, yet that was not a Cardinal sin.

If it was, they should have taken him "out of service" on the spot.

Agreed. And I've seen many put back to work because they were not terminated immediately for what UPS considered was a terminable offense.

If they were not terminated on the spot, and UPS continued to let them work, it must not have been that serious.

 

[Brownslave688]

Define "using".

Would that be under article 17i?

"Avoid all in-cab distractions".

Is that defined as anything that would possibly make you take your eyes off the road?

Like your DIAD light coming on and the audible noise it makes that causes you to take your eyes off the wheel? Especially at night when it's dark in the cab?

Their own training instructs you to observe your instrument gauge(s) while driving, thus taking your eyes off the road.

Does the OP have phone records showing that the management called him anytime during the day when he was driving? They know when the wheels are turning but yet call him in his cell phone baiting him to answer.

This is no more than a warning ltr. The laws governing "reaching for" and/or illegally using a mobile device was modified as follows:
View attachment 241681 View attachment 241683View attachment 241688

ALL IN CAB DISTRACTIONS.....you mean like the turn by turn all of us will soon have!!!

 

[Frankie's Friend]

ALL IN CAB DISTRACTIONS.....you mean like the turn by turn all of us will soon have!!!

I was thinking about that myself for some time.
Just more double standards.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Neither is workplace violence, or sexual harassment, or gross insubordination, or a few others that I'm sure you know of.

???


Under 17-I in the Central Region.... it is.

That was the original intent of "other serious offenses".

As the years went by, the company abused that language and Panels kept upholding it.


This contract and the last, have made positive gains in defining it.

For the better....

 

[Mugarolla]

???


Under 17-I in the Central Region.... it is.

That was the original intent of "other serious offenses".

As the years went by, the company abused that language and Panels kept upholding it.


This contract and the last, have made positive gains in defining it.

For the better....

I was referring to the Supplements that do not contain "other serious offenses," such as the Western.

The Western does not list sexual harassment as a Cardinal Sin, nor does it have "other serious offenses."

Go fondle a female sup and you will be terminated, and it will be upheld.

 

[542thruNthru]

I was referring to the Supplements that do not contain "other serious offenses," such as the Western.

The Western does not list sexual harassment as a Cardinal Sin, nor does it have "other serious offenses."

Go fondle a female sup and you will be terminated, and it will be upheld.[/QUOTE]

Wouldn't that fall under " unprovoked assault on an employee or a supervisor."

 

[soberups]

I was referring to the Supplements that do not contain "other serious offenses," such as the Western.

The Western does not list sexual harassment as a Cardinal Sin, nor does it have "other serious offenses."

Go fondle a female sup and you will be terminated, and it will be upheld.

Fondling a female sup would be considered an unprovoked assault upon another employee, which is a listed cardinal offense.

 

[Mugarolla]

Wouldn't that fall under " unprovoked assault on an employee or a supervisor."

Possibly. I don't think you would be terminated for assault, you copped a feel. Possibly sexual battery.

How about the Southern?

It states "or engaging in unprovoked physical violence on Company property or while on duty."

Fondling some boobs would not be considered physical violence, it would be considered sexual harassment, or sexual battery, and the employee would be terminated immediately, and the termination upheld, even though it was not a Cardinal sin listed in the contract.

How about NorCal?

It does not list assault or physical violence.

Neither does the Atlantic. Nor the New England.

You would still be terminated, and it would be upheld.

 

[Mugarolla]

Fondling a female sup would be considered an unprovoked assault upon another employee, which is a listed cardinal offense.

Fair enough. But other Supplements do not list assault or violence. You would still be terminated, Cardinal Sin or not.

In the Western, do this.

Walk into the center manager's office and tell him you are going to kill him by shooting him between the eyes, and walk out.

This is not listed as a Cardinal Sin in the Western, but I guarantee you will be unemployed.

 

[MyTripisCut]

Fair enough. But other Supplements do not list assault or violence. You would still be terminated, Cardinal Sin or not.

In the Western, do this.

Walk into the center manager's office and tell him you are going to kill him by shooting him between the eyes, and walk out.

This is not listed as a Cardinal Sin in the Western, but I guarantee you will be unemployed.

Do you think someone should or shouldn’t be unemployed for threatening to shoot someone or fondling another?

 

[Mugarolla]

Do you think someone should or shouldn’t be unemployed for threatening to shoot someone or fondling another?

I think they should be. Just my opinion.

But, I still stand behind my statement. Just because it is not listed as a cardinal sin doesn't necessarily mean you won't be terminated.

 

[22.34life]

It's not a cardinal infraction,so contractually they cant off the clock terminate u for it.if they do u will be back in a week now with pay that depends on ur buisness agent.