The religion of peace strikes again...

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
News flash: Deadly terrorism existed before 9/11

We've been dealing with the same threats for decades. But we used to be a lot calmer about it, less self-defeating

By Patrick Smith

A hijacker points his pistol from the cockpit of TWA Flight 847 as an ABC news crew approaches the jet for an interview at Beirut International Airport on June 19, 1985.

Here's a scenario:
Middle Eastern terrorists hijack a U.S. jetliner bound for Italy. A two-week drama ensues in which the plane's occupants are split into groups and held hostage in secret locations in Lebanon and Syria.
While this drama is unfolding, another group of terrorists detonates a bomb in the luggage hold of a 747 over the North Atlantic, killing more than 300 people.
Not long afterward, terrorists kill 19 people and wound more than a hundred others in coordinated attacks at European airport ticket counters.
A few months later, a U.S. airliner is bombed over Greece, killing four passengers.
Five months after that, another U.S. airliner is stormed by heavily armed terrorists at the airport in Karachi, Pakistan, killing at least 20 people and wounding 150 more.
Things are quiet for a while, until two years later when a 747 bound for New York is blown up over Europe killing 270 passengers and crew.
Nine months from then, a French airliner en route to Paris is bombed over Africa, killing 170 people from 17 countries.
That's a pretty macabre fantasy, no? A worst-case war-game scenario for the CIA? A script for the End Times? Except, of course, that everything above actually happened, in a four-year span between 1985 and 1989. The culprits were the al-Qaidas of their time: groups like the Abu Nidal Organization and the Arab Revolutionary Cells, and even the government of Libya.
First on that list was the spectacular saga of TWA Flight 847, a Boeing 727 commandeered by Shi-ite militiamen in June of '85. Even before that crisis ended, Sikh extremists would blow up Air India Flight 182 off the coast of Ireland -- the deadliest civil aviation bombing in history. The Abu Nidal group then murdered 20 people at the airports in Rome and Vienna, followed in short order by the bombing of TWA Flight 840 as it descended toward Athens. Abu Nidal struck again in Karachi, attacking a Pan Am 747 with machine guns and grenades. Then, in December 1988, Libyan operatives planted the luggage bomb that brought down Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in what would stand until 2001 as the worst-ever terror attack against a U.S. target. The Libyans later used another luggage bomb to take out UTA Flight 772 over Niger in September 1989.

Also occurring in that same span were the non-terrorist bombing of a Korean Air Lines 707 and the downing of a San Francisco-bound Pacific Southwest Airlines flight by a recently fired employee who burst into the cockpit and shot both pilots.
I bring all of this up for a couple of reasons.
If nothing else, it demonstrates how quickly we forget the past. Our memories are short, and growing shorter, it seems, all the time. Our collective consciousness seems to reinvent itself daily, cobbled from a media blitz of short-order blurbs and 30-second segments. There will be a heavy price to pay, potentially, for having developed such a shallow and fragile mind-set.
With respect to airport security, it is remarkable how we have come to place Sept. 11, 2001, as the fulcrum upon which we balance almost all of our decisions. As if deadly terrorism didn't exist prior to that day, when really we've been dealing with the same old threats for decades. What have we learned? What have we done?
Well, have a look at the debased state of airport security today. We continue enacting the wrong policies, wasting our security resources and manpower. We have implemented many important changes since Lockerbie, it's true (actually, many of the new protocols are post-9/11), but much of our approach remains incoherent. Cargo and packages go uninspected while passengers are groped and harassed over umbrellas and harmless hobby knives. Uniformed pilots are forced to remove their belts and endure embarrassing pat-downs.
And what of our rights as citizens? Body scanners are in the news this week. If a decade ago people were told that a day was coming when passengers would need to be looked at naked before getting on a plane, nobody would have believed it. Yet here we are, and what might be next?
Yes, I remember the underwear bomber. But where do we draw the line? Do we turn our airports into fortresses and surrender our freedoms and privacy, in the name of something that is ultimately impossible: total safety?
"What have we done?" is a chilling enough question. But here's a scarier and more important one: What will we do when they strike again?
Because they will, and I shudder to imagine our response.
Look again at that list above. All of those tragedies, in a four-year span, with some of the attacks actually overlapping. Try to imagine a similar spell today. Could we handle even a fraction of such disaster?
In the 1980s we did not overreact. We did not stage ill-fated invasions of distant countries. People did not cease traveling and the airline industry did not fall into chaos. We were lazy in enacting better security, perhaps, but as a country our psychological reaction, much to our credit, was calm, measured and not yet self-defeating.
This time, thanks to the wholly unhealthy changes in our national and cultural mind-set, I fear it will be different.
As an airline employee I worry greatly about this. If 2001 was any indication, we are doomed to overreaction that will ground planes and send Americans scurrying into their hidey-holes. Along with many thousands, or even millions, of others, I am liable to find myself once again unemployed. Unemployed not for any good or practical reason, but because we, as a nation, have grown weak and prone to panic.
"The terrorists have won" is a refrain I don't like using. It's sensationalist and ignores inherent complexities. But for the moment, I can't think of a better way of putting it.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
For Pete's sake, just throw a dart at the globe and be done with it......a year ?? It takes a year to make a decision ??? Idiot!!
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
For Pete's sake, just throw a dart at the globe and be done with it......a year ?? It takes a year to make a decision ??? Idiot!!

Gee More, if he did that, this would constitute as a decision as if then the problem is solved. If problem is solved and requires no more energy or purpose, how then does said bureaurat justify one's job? Not to mention he/she must then accept the results of said decision going forward and shoulder that burden.

Same thing at UPS with conference calls or emails. Both are nothing more than "make work" projects so some people can say they actually have a purpose for the job they do but if you actually did a full analysis of each and their actual need to the bottomline, most are a pure waste of time & resources and a drain on the profit side of the ledger!

And UPS is nowhere near alone in this as we roll further into the technology age, the K.I.S.S method across our culture becomes the iconic stone wheel of our fast fading past!

BTW: IMO the dancing on where to prosecute is not about the location but is nothing more than song and dance to delay as the chain of evidence is becoming more and more tainted as the days roll by. Also I still think there is fear at the upper levels of such things as Wikileaks or other "Pirate" source who might go public if such trials were to even begin.

For this thing to not have been tired at all, either public trial or military tribunal in my mind speaks volumes and Hamilton Berger knows he'll be crushed by Perry Mason so why not use it as a public, political spectacle and get all the mileage and yet never have to pay the bill!

Gov't at it's finest!
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Hold on you two. When Holder wanted to try them in New York, people flew apart about it. Maybe they've just been waiting for the fire storm to die down.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
(Daily Mail) — As a blind Muslim woman, Mona Ramouni has had to make do without a guide dog her whole life. The 28-year-old’s strictly religious parents would not allow a dog in the house, considering the animal unclean. But then Miss Ramouni stumbled across a website article about miniature guide horses in April 2008.

She lives in Dearborn, Michigan

(The designer Muslim horse poo catcher is a nice touch, don’t you think?)
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
OK, I checked Snopes & Fact or Fiction....couldn't find if it's true or not. I don't care, I like it anyway! Just sending it like I got it....


Thought you might like to read this letter to the editor of a British
national newspaper. Ever notice how some people just seem to know how to
write a letter? Here is a woman who should run for Prime Minister!
Written by a housewife, to her daily newspaper. This is one ticked off lady.

'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started
by Islamic people who brought it to our shores in July 2002, and in New
York Sept 11, 2001 and have continually threatened to do so since?

Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day in
London, and in downtown Manhattan, and in a field in Pennsylvania ?

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or
crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be tortured by
a justice system of the nation they come from and are fighting against in a
brutal insurgency.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for
incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11 and 7/7.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring
about the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which is a crime punishable by
beheading in Afghanistan

I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for hacking off
Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called 'insurgents' in Afghanistan come out
and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in
mosques and behind women and children.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of
Nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide
bombs.

I'll care when the British media stops pretending that their freedom of
speech on stories is more important than the lives of the soldiers on the
ground or their families waiting at home to hear about them when something
happens.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a British soldier roughing up an
Insurgent terrorist to obtain information, know this:
I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to
move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take this to the bank:
I don't care.

When I hear that a prisoner - who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and
'fed special food' that is paid for by my taxes - is complaining that his
holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe in your heart of
hearts:
I don't care.

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled 'Koran' and
other times 'Quran.' Well, believe me!! you guessed it ......
I don't care!!

'Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. Our soldiers don't have that problem.'

I have another quote that I would like to add,

Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:



The British Soldier.
The Canadian Soldier.
The United States Soldier
The Australian Soldier
The Israeli Soldier
They died for your freedom!!!


GIVE THIS LADY A STANDING OVATION. SHE HAS INDEED TICKED ALL THE BOXES

Isn't it interesting that so many people in the Western World feel this way,
but not one of our politicians, who are supposed to represent us, ever have
the guts to state the situation like it is ???
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
After reading that, More, I have never felt more patriotic in saying to that woman and those who believe such things, "I don't care." We aim to not fight evil with evil, wrong with wrong, or torture with torture. When we fail, it is to our credit when we hold ourselves accountable and to our shame when we turn our heads and excuse our actions. It is who we are and who we aim to become that defends our nation with honor. You may applaud this lady and you may agree with her, and it is and I would hope would always be your right to do so. But that your hatred and venom would have this nation throw off it's shackles of fairness and justice for the sake of retribution and revenge, to that I can only say, "I don't care." And I can only make that statement in the faith that past it's pimples and warts, short-comings and failings, gaffs and cataclysms, America, by standing by her values and principles (and not inspite of them), eventually gets it right.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
After reading that, More, I have never felt more patriotic in saying to that woman and those who believe such things, "I don't care." We aim to not fight evil with evil, wrong with wrong, or torture with torture. When we fail, it is to our credit when we hold ourselves accountable and to our shame when we turn our heads and excuse our actions. It is who we are and who we aim to become that defends our nation with honor. You may applaud this lady and you may agree with her, and it is and I would hope would always be your right to do so. But that your hatred and venom would have this nation throw off it's shackles of fairness and justice for the sake of retribution and revenge, to that I can only say, "I don't care." And I can only make that statement in the faith that past it's pimples and warts, short-comings and failings, gaffs and cataclysms, America, by standing by her values and principles (and not inspite of them), eventually gets it right.

bbsam,

Reading your comment above I thought you might enjoy or appreciate this Glenn Greenwald piece over at Salon. I know I did.

The great English jurist, judge William Blackstone, who authored the great 4 volume work, "Blackstone's Commentaries, Laws of England" on the common law system once said,

Its better that 10 guilty men go free than one innocent man is wrongfully convicted

see Blackstone Ratio

That quote and the abuses of European monarches of the past are at the heart of the ideal of American jurisprudence "presumed innocent until proven guilty" and yes, at times it is not easy to follow but if we let it fail, history is littered with the dead bodies of innocent individuals that will one day mark our own future. Even in our zeal of bloodlust in our domestic courts, we are finding mistakes and yes even mistakes at the ultimate level with capital punishment.

The old testament law in which most Americans in one way or another have some connection states that a life is only taken on the direct testimony of 2 to 3 witnesses. For those who proclaim no higher authority than God himself, that's a pretty huge hurdle no matter how you look at it. Yet, so many people who would proclaim themselves followers of such creed and dogma are in turn ascribing themselves power beyond what their god proclaimed in the first place. Thus, I wonder if the old admonition of "depart from me as I never knew you" might come into play for these folks one day?

As an aside but on the lines of religion, I've been reading about the Cathars who were 12th century (and earlier)gnostics of southern France and although were called christian by some, were not in the orthodox sense of the term we think of. However, their gnostic if not herectical beliefs in terms of the established order ran them afoul of larger and more powerful forces and in the end they were slaughtered by the Roman church and northern french nobles who benefitted by the acquiring of more lands by state/military force and thus my historical interests. 1000's of Cathar men, women and children were slaughtered and the Cathers were in practice pacifists so it wasn't like it was a truly fair fight. Yet in the early 13th century Pope Innocent III ordered their destruction so we can condemn what we see today being done in the so-called name of religion but let's not forget that what we are seeing is in fact a direct reflection of our own past and the ole saying, the sins of the fathers will visit their sons. You reap what you sow?

:peaceful:
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
http://swns.com/muslim-schoolboys-e...ts-to-troop-supporting-classmate-171117.html?
Muslim schoolboys excluded for making death threats to troop-supporting classmate


Six students have been excluded for making death threats to a classmate on Facebook – because he posted comments supporting BRITISH troops.
Five Muslim boys, all aged 12, threatened to attack terrified Darius Gill, 13, with knuckle dusters and knives. One white girl, also 12, has been excluded.
The chilling threats came hours after Darius – whose father is Asian – posted a touching tribute to the thousands of squaddies who have lost their lives defending Britain.
But a gang of pupils at Sidney Stringer Academy in Coventry – a predominantly Muslim area – expressed outrage at Darius’ patriotism.
One message – littered with spelling mistakes – said: ”Fight on Monday gonna be heavy knuckle dusters nd knifes hopefully I don’t die.”
His pal added: ”ill bang him ma slef am a terrorist.”
One of the thugs also posted a chilling picture of himself holding a rifle.
Shockingly, other pupils – who have set up a Muslim Defence League which celebrates British deaths in Afghanistan – also added comments condemning Darius.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
And speaking of the "RELIGION" of "PEACE!"

The Rogue Cop and the Corrupt State Win Again

Posted by Christopher Manion on November 17, 2010 09:11 AM
Surprise!
“In April 2008, off-duty Officer Jason Cokinos struck 12-year-old Luis Jovel Jr. with his police cruiser as the boy crossed the street in front of his home on Stringtown Road. In a follow-up report, police determined that Cokinos was driving 56 miles per hour in a 30 mph zone and concluded that the boy would not have been hit if the officer were traveling at the speed limit.
The family originally sought millions of dollars from the county and Cokinos, but was entitled to just $200,000 per case, under state law limiting liability for local governments.
Luis, now a quadriplegic, has permanent brain injury and difficulty speaking. The freshman at Clarksburg High School requires around-the-clock medical care for tasks as small as turning or getting ready in the morning. Norma said her husband, Luis Jovel Sr., works as a manager at McDonald’s and doesn’t earn nearly enough money to cover their son’s expenses.”
The moral law and the common law and “the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God” be damned, “Officer” Jason Cokinos is still in uniform doing “community action” work. There is no word as to whether Cokinos ever apologized or even expressed regret that “mistakes were made.” Since there will be no trial, we may never know. [His lawyer once said Cokinos "felt very sorry for what happened." I'm sure he does - after all, he got a speeding ticket.]
In light of this officially-sanctioned travesty, I wonder if the “community” might consider taking some human action of its own?
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Relatives assault male doctor

The doctor rushed to help a woman who went into violent hemorrhage after childbirth. But when the woman’s relatives discovered that the doctor was a man, they immediately went on the attack.

This incident took place at Örebro University Hospital in Sweden two weeks ago. According to René Bangshöj, head of the women’s clinic, the assaulted doctor had been called in to help a woman who had just given birth and who then underwent heavy bleeding.

“When the doctor came in, he was met by angry screaming: ‘We do not want a male doctor at the childbirth room’,” Bangshöj said to Swedish Radio in Örebro.

The doctor, however, took his medical vow seriously, and went towards the woman. That made her husband go berserk, and he violently attacked the doctor to stop him from touching his bleeding wife.

“And at the same time the woman’s brother came into the room and attacked the doctor from behind,” Bangshöj told the reporter. “The doctor tried to protect himself against the punches and kicks, but the two foreigners nevertheless gave him a sharp kick in the groin,” he said to Swedish Radio.​
Several staff members had already alerted the police, who came in large numbers and had the two violent men quickly removed. Then the woman finally could be taken to the surgery room, and she was saved in spite of it all. [The question is now whether she jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire, now that a male doctor had touched her! — HEJ]

The doctor is now working as before on the ward, but the hospital has its security department working on the matter to determine if there exist continued threats against him after doing surgery to save one of those unfortunate women who have to give birth in a culture completely without decency.

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/11/kick-in-groin-for-kafir-doctor.html#more
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I've heard there are religious sects in this country, Christian ones at that that will not allow medical attention to a dying child. What's the difference?
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
The courts usually step in with these 'cults' and at least protect the children.....like when that boy needed chemo. The courts ordered chemo and it saved his life. The parents were just going to let him die.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I've heard there are religious sects in this country, Christian ones at that that will not allow medical attention to a dying child. What's the difference?

Whiter Skin and at least some loose connectivity to the term "christian." Outside of that, not much else. I also find it ironic that so many here who condemn what are horrible practices no doubt but yet they often themselves follow a religious dogma itself rooted in the same bronze age mythology. Yet they lack little if no understanding or practice of this dogma at it's root core. Many times the acts of other "so-called" religious extremism they condemn are as equally and easily justified in their own root core writtings of the religion they follow. Wanna a wife? Especially the really hot number down the street or at work? Got 50 Shekels? Just rape her at will and the law allows it.

Dueteronomy 22:28-29,
[28] If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found,
[29] then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her; he may not put her away all his days.

"Oh, But I'm a New Testament Christain and that old law stuff don't apply to me anymore!" OK, then I guess I can't point out that the Old Testament allows slavery since it doesn't but someone needs to tell the great apostle Paul about this as he said in Ephesians 6:5-8

[5] Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ;
[6] not in the way of eye-service, as men-pleasers, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,
[7] rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to men,
[8] knowing that whatever good any one does, he will receive the same again from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.

"Slaves, obey your master" not "masters, slavery is wrong and the practice should end!" "But Paul taught grace not law!" Really? You Serious? Let's listen to Paul in Acts 24:14 when the powers that be accused him of forsaking the law for another way!

However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,

So he believes in the law? Opps! As to the "rape a virgin" part, I find it ironic to have heard utterances and claims of the Taliban as well as other Islamic extremists doing similar acts, often in the case with very young virgins and yet no quarter is given them in their religious beliefs based on earlier writtings.

Many people who constantly look for these type negatives to post or make light of also lack another imporant area of understanding all the people who make up the core group known as "semitic peoples" and the traditions and customs that actually transcend across them regardless who or what they name their chief deity nor call themselves in relation to religious terms. Most people very wrongly think of jews and arabic muslims as being polar opposites but in truth of law and dogma they share much, much more in common at the core root level. They also share an ancient bloodline and brotherhood if you will and all the bible based religion that we in the west have are rooted in their core root system. It has been in the later christian era that ideals of the Romans and Greeks (Roman thanks to the Byzantine influence and greeks thanks to the Hellenistic/Galileen influence) became intermixed and raised a veil of separation so as to cloud the older connections and it's belief systems. It was also a later enlightenment and post industrial revolutionary understanding that widened the gap from this pre-enlightenment world we seem so fixated on that in many respects is a declining minority in the Middle East but the hatred of the west is driven out of politics and religion only becomes a convenient ally.

It's also very easy to cherry pick sections from writtings often 1000's of years old and many times can be poorly translated or understood in the wrong context of the day so just because you find one or even a series of supposed wrongs, be careful how you associate that to form a collective equivalent applied to all.

90% of married women killed are done so by the husband. Conclusion married men are killers at heart!
Majority of serial killers are white and male, thus white males are pure killers at heart. Same rule has application to serial rapists too.
Majority of pedophiles are white heterosexual males so white heterosexual men should be barred from children.
Majority of African American crime is against other African Americans so African Americans should only be allowed to live with and around White people.

How absurd do you want to go with this?
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
The courts usually step in with these 'cults' and at least protect the children.....like when that boy needed chemo. The courts ordered chemo and it saved his life. The parents were just going to let him die.
I would say sometimes. But court is a long and messy process.
 
Top