Union Letters

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by bitter to the bone, Sep 17, 2007.

  1. I there a limit to how many union letters you are supposed to get before they declare that it is your final union letter?:confused:1

    I got my "final" union letter today. I have never been in trouble before to get one, so what I am wondering is , is there a set number , like "progressive discipline" that you go through before the supes can say it is your final letter?

    Also how long do the letters stay in your file? A former steward told me it is 9 months and after nine months you are allowed to look at your file to see if it has been removed and it they haven't been removed, you are allowed to request them removed?

    I'm just wondering if what I've been told is true or if the supes were just trying to scare me? As I said, I have never been in trouble before and have never had a union letter until now, so I am totally confused,upset and a little scared :crying:(although I didn't let the supes know I was).

    Any replies to my questions would be greatly appreciated
  2. Mr Shifter

    Mr Shifter Active Member

    Union Letter.... is that warning letter? if so then yes there is a progressive disipline and for me since i'm a feeder shifter its first accident is a letter second letter plus suspension and third termination but of course those are accidents not gross misconduct or complete disregard for safty.
  3. Yes, I guess that is what most people call them is warning letters. I am in the North Ohio District so I am just repeating what the supe told me. He called them a "union letter.

    There is no progressive discipline in my case. They told me it was the final warning. Does it depend on what you did? The supe told me he could "have my job". ( I know that I could have union representation if I did in fact lose my job and might get it back but I don't want it to go that far).

    I am pretty perturbed by the whole thing and am just asking for some clarification. The whole issue has left a bad taste in my mouth. I really enjoyed my job -up until now. Now I feel as if I am being rail roaded and it has left me feeling very bitter towards the company.Like I said I am not one of those "problematic employees" that have to be drug into the office with the steward time and time again. I have never had a warning letter for anything until now and then its the "final" one?

    The only thing I'm thinking is that the supe who told me this is only looking at the offense and not taking into consideration my past job performance. I really don't know.

    I just want to know if they are within their rights to do this or if this is just a major scare tactic on their part. I know how UPS management likes to jerk the rank and files chains.

    I just want to be aware of what my rights are as well and eventually put this behind me and perhaps salvage some of the enjoyment I had doing my job.

    Also was the former steward correct in telling me that the warning letter stays in my personal file for 9 months and then has to be taken out and if it isn't I can request that it be taken out?

    Thanks for all your help in answering my questions
  4. JohnnyPension

    JohnnyPension Member

    Hey Bitter

    Have you checked your pittsburgh? That is the file your center keeps on you. EVERYONE should ask to look at theirs at least once a year and you are entitled to see it. They can put all kinds of crap in there but unless I am mistaken they are supposed to only add to that file after you have representation from your shop stewart or rep. When I was a young "rooty toot" I went to check mine at the urging of our shop stewart and low and behold I had been accused of all sorts of things that never happened or were blown out of proportion. In any case I was never called in the office officially for any of it and they had to empty my file of all that bull.... .
  5. SmithBarney

    SmithBarney Well-Known Member

    Funny thing about the "files" they have on you, I thought mine would be full
    I checked the folder about a month before I resigned(I relocated) and all it had
    was one document I signed when I was hired... LOL...
  6. Harley Rider

    Harley Rider 34 yrs & counting

    If I were you I would go directly to my steward. As far as I know there are only a few "cardinal sins" that you can be fired for without a progressive warning. Stealing and drinking or drugs on the job.

    I've been working at UPS for 23 years and never got a warning letter until a few weeks ago. It was by an on-car sup that I started out driving with years ago. Just so you know they don't always take your work record into account. Personally I think your supervisor is talking out his butt.
  7. dammor

    dammor Active Member

    What are you accused of doing?
  8. DS

    DS Fenderbender

    bitter,I think it indeed depends on what you did.
    level with us,if its your final warning,what did you
    do at least twice before ?
  9. JustTired

    JustTired free at last.......

    As far as I'm concerned, they can put anything they want in that "file". I couldn't care less.
    Just don't bend my prescription card.
  10. UPS Lifer

    UPS Lifer Well-Known Member

    We can help you better if we know what you did. I can give you pretty good direction if I know what you are being disciplined for. If it is not a cardinal sin, there should be retraining involved. This training should be documented in your file. Proper discipline should be used to change behavior. It should not be used to threaten your job. You have a good case to make for a greivence. But before you go that direction, get with your manager and explain what you have said here. Part time supervisors are not always skilled in dealing with these types of problems. Go to the full time supervisor and expalin your concerns and then if it is not resolved go to the manager. You can bring your steward along for support. This way if additional action is necessary than you have the steward there to assist you.
  11. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    I"ve gotten enough warning letters to wallpaper the whole Empire State Building (okay, maybe that's over exagerating) next week I make 19 years at UPS:tongue_sm
  12. Thanks for all of the advice so far. DS I am leveling with you when I say I have never done anything-absolutely nothing- before that I have ever gotten a warning letter before.

    What I got the letter for was this: I was working on Friday night and the sort had been called down and my fellow co-workers and I were trying to finish up the packages we had (I work in International ). I had just finished the last package I had and got read to toss the package (I know hand to surface) onto the belt. Just as I did this, one of my coworkers came up to gather the invoices. Well the box hit her, unfortunately it hit her in the face:sad:. The box was a small and weighed only 1 to 1-1/2 lbs. Mind you I didn't throw this pkg with any force. Just enough to get it to the belt that is about 2 ft away from my work station.

    I immediately realized the stupidity of my actions and quickly went to assist her. She said she was ok and it just stung a little bit. We both went about finishing up for the evening and I continued to check on her and she still said she was ok.

    Now the department supe comes in and notices her sitting at the desk and asks her what happened and she tells him. She told him that she was ok and didnt want to file an accident report

    Now this is where it gets complicated. This same girl is on TAW for an injury that she sustained over a year ago. She is currently seeing UPS doctors for her condition (supposedly a herniated disk in her back)and she has retained a lawyer because UPS is fighting her over her claim. Since this is the case, the dept. super though it best to write a report of the incident,(so she couldn't come back later and say she has sustained more injuries and it was related to the previous injury). So he talks to his boss and his boss wanted to write me up but the dept super said he wanted to "retrain me".

    So that is what happens. The dept. supe fills out the report of what happened and notes that he has instructed me on proper methods and I have been retrained. We all though it was the end of things, until I come in Monday and it hits the fan.

    Seems the girl that got hit with the box, claimed her neck started to hurt and she went to the E.R. Now UPS is stuck paying for an ER visit that they said should have never been.

    They brought me into the office Monday with my steward (alternate steward actually who isn't very good at the job and the regular steward is on vacation:ohmy:) , my shift supervisor and his boss. That's when I was told that I could lose my job and that this was my final warning letter.:ohmy:
    I pled my case and told them that I fully understood the gravity of the situation but it was an honest to god accident that I truly regret and would never happen again. (and it never will again)

    The shift supervisor stood up and told his boss that I was "not a problematic employee" and that I am "a very concientious worker who follows all work methods,my attendence is very good and my job performance is above average" My dept. Super even pled my case and backed up everything that the shift super had said but to no avail.

    I recently found out that the District Manager found out about what happened and she isn't too happy with the whole situation. She is a "hard-nose" and several other people in my building have had run ins with her. And now its my turn.

    Now I know this situation isnt the very best but did it warrant me getting a final warning? I didn't steal anything, I wasn't drinking on the job, no one was permanently disabled, disfigured or killed. It was an honest to god accident that I feel deeply sorry for and will make sure will never happen again (whether or not had I gotten the letter).

    Am I wrong in thinking the discipline is a bit extreme? Am I wrong in believing that UPS didn't follow proper procedures pertaining to the warning letters? I just want to find out if this is what really should have happened.

    Thanks for all your help. People like you are one of the reasons I joined the Brown Cafe forum in the first place.
  13. DS

    DS Fenderbender

    bitter not better...little joke there...almost like least best....
    anyways man it seems to me that this has nothing to do with warning letters.There is NO reason you should be fired for this.
    You accidently threw a box in the face of a fellow upser,(that happens to be a loser)
    If there was any time that anyone should call that 1-800 number
    I think it should be YOU NOW!Your center manager is NOT GOD!
    Never mind not causing any trouble ...if what you say is true,you should speak up and you'll be ok.
  14. helenofcalifornia

    helenofcalifornia Well-Known Member

    Ditto. Though I would write up the incident as you recall it exactley and see if there are any other witnesses who remember the "loser" saying she was OK and it was no big deal. If it wasn't for the girl who got hit, this wouldn't even be a blip on the screen. You should not be fired for this. And since when does anyone even open those certified letters? I always have them refused.
  15. Harley Rider

    Harley Rider 34 yrs & counting

    They are making a big stink out of the situation but you got nothing to worry about. If they fired you all you would have to do is file a grievance . It would then go to panel and you would get your job back. There is absolutely no way they can fire you over something like that. A warning letter... yes. You could also wind up losing a few weeks pay until the local hearing heard your case.

    We had a driver that had almost 30 years on the job at the time. He made a left hand turn across traffic and pulled into the path of an oncoming car. They said his route was not set up for him to be making left hand turns from that business. Fired him the next day. Of course he got his job back a couple of weeks later.
  16. JustTired

    JustTired free at last.......

    You've got to be kidding me. Wait......OK......forgot who I was working for!:laugh:
  17. Thanks for all of the advice. I do feel a bit better about things now but I am going to talk to my union steward once he gets back from vacation.

    As for getting a witness to testify that the "loser" said she was ok, that is gonna be the hard part. There are 5 of us in my dept. and 4 of the employees have their own clique, of which the "loser" is part so I highly doubt that any of them would volunteer to say something to help me out. (long story short-the other 4 employees don't care for me too much because I go by the book when I do my job and refuse to goof off and slack like they do-but that's another story).

    I know the dept. supe heard the "loser" say that she was ok but I don't think he would be a witness to that. He is catching a lot of flack from his bosses about other things other than "my" incident and I don't think he would be willing to catch more hell by being a witness for me. But then I haven't asked him either so who knows? All management isn't bad and he is one of the good ones so perhaps it might be in my best interst to just ask. All he can say is "no".

    Like I said before, I'll know more after I talk to my steward and hopefully I can get some closure to this whole matter. I'll still be "bitter" but maybe not so much :tongue_sm
  18. UPS Lifer

    UPS Lifer Well-Known Member

    Bitter - Harley is right. Your mgmt team already knows what the "loser" is trying to do. In California - if you can prove fraud (extremely hard to do) the loser will be separated from UPS and would face criminal charges. Because the loser has already initiated a legal case against the company, (and actually for any safety related concern) UPS needs to show that action is being taken to correct the situation. A warning and retraining are the steps that normally would be taken in this instance. If you intended malice and it could be proved...you would be separated for gross negligence (a cardinal sin). We know that is not the case based on your statements here. SO DON'T WORRY!!!

    Be careful with your package handling!! You have a warning on file, another incident could result in further disciplinary action. Don't forget that 9 months from now the warning is no longer in effect. Make sure it is pulled from your file.

    You need to understand that the company had absolutely no choice in the matter in regards to your discipline. (Safety and lawsuit)
    They know the type of employee you are and do not want to lose you. The loser will get it in the end without any retribution from you! Karma has a way of taking care of things!!!!
  19. Lifer, I know the company had no choice in regards to my discipline but I still do think that a "final" warning was a bit extreme. A written warning and retraining would have been more than enough, at least I think so. And yes,I have had a chance to simmer down and think things through.

    I have no intention of doing anything else in the next 9 months to incur further disciplinary action. I handle the packages "with kid gloves" even more so now than before. And the incident is always in the forefront of my mind when I clock in each day. Remember what happened and learn from it.

    This has definitely been a learning experience. One that I will always carry through my UPS career. Like you said Karma has a way of taking care of things and I believe it will:)

    But you better believe in 9 months time I will definitely be requesting that the letter be taken out of my file :laugh:

    Thanks to everyone here who listened and offered help. :thumbup1:
  20. LKLND3380

    LKLND3380 Active Member

    Some areas - three warning letters before termination.
    Warning Letter, Final Warning Letter, Suspension Letter, Termination Letter

    Have you been written up before?

    At our bldg. we see warning letters in the spring months like clock work... Almost like they have met their quota for the year and after June no more...