UPS Bargaining Suspended

[area43]

If the current Teamster Leadership, that was voted in by a majority of those in the Central States, not once, but recently for the seond time, would have negotiated the proper contributions to the fund, then perhaps the fund would not be in the situation it is. Hoffa-56,229 to Leedham-35,890 votes in 2006. You folks voted for the 2002 "Best Ever Contract" did you not? Who wasn't paying attention before they voted in 2002? Is it beyond my saying that you folks should except some of the blame. No matter who's running your fund, you must constantly be watching them.

Wow, you bring up the vote. Have much creditability does that vote really have. I believe its rigged myself. Come on folks do you really think the teamsters want you to have control of your own destiny. Ha, your only fooling yourself. The teamsters officals are only looking out for their best interest not yours. UPS should have control over the CS plan. If caution is applied in this manner I believe the odds will be better for the UPS employees in the plan. I being in Virgina really do feel for those that are in the CS plan. Im surprised no one has gone Parcel yet.

 

[satellitedriver]

July 13, 2007

The following is an update on the UPS national negotiations from General President Jim Hoffa, Chairman of the Teamsters UPS National Negotiating Committee and hall, Co-Chairman of the Negotiating Committee.

We write to inform you that the Teamsters National UPS Negotiating Committee suspended talks with UPS on July 11, 2007. As you know, we entered into early negotiations in order to address our members’ concerns that their pension and health and welfare benefit funds were in jeopardy. Unfortunately, the Company has been unable to present a comprehensive response to the Union’s economic demands because of differences between the Company and several benefit funds over the amount of new Company money that is necessary to maintain and improve existing benefits.

HUH?
OH!, I get it now. It is the company's fault for not saving the CS funds.

These disputes cannot be resolved by the Union Negotiating Committee.

Then why did the negotiating commitee start early negotiations?

And until they are resolved between the Company and those funds, the Union cannot proceed with bargaining over the outstanding economic and language proposals that are on the table.

So, it is not between the union and UPS. It is between UPS and the Funds.

Then, why was the union negotiating on things it can not control?

The Union is prepared to resume negotiations as soon as the Company is ready to put forth an economic proposal that addresses the issue that brought us to the table to begin with: improving the stability of the benefit funds upon which our members rely for health care coverage and retirement protection.

OH!, I get this also. The union will negotiate as long as UPS ponies up the money to stabilize the funds they manage for UPSER's.

While negotiations at the National Agreement level have been suspended, both the Union and Company Supplemental Negotiating Committees have been instructed to continue to bargain over the working conditions covered in the Supplements. As always, we will provide you with information as soon as there are further developments.

I already know what the working conditions are and will be.
Where is the money?

 

[satellitedriver]

Do working UPSER's really buy into this base BS/Rhetoric. Just look at the archaic verbage/garbage. I am suprised they didn't through in a quote from Lenin.

You mean the one about Yoko being a negative influence to the band?

Cute,
Buddy Jesus, I like your avatar.
Just the thought of Yoko makes me shutter, much less her face and voice.

 

[satellitedriver]

Keep up the good work and you will be able to see lots of white trucks delivering what used to be jobs of your union brothers and sisters. Why are people like you so willing to sacrifice everyone else for your power trip?

What power trip?
I take it you do not work for UPS.
We sacrifice ourselves doing our job and you wish for us to sacrifice our earned money to someone who doesn't?
Are you trippin'.

 

[Cezanne]

People "Cool out", this is typical of any past negotiations. We still have an entire year to work this out before the ax falls.

Any supplemental language improvements would be a plus. Supplemental language is usually regional and covers provisions not clearly stated under the master agreement. It effects a large majority of the collective bargaining members. It should not be put on the back burner as it has been in the past.

Agree with most of you, sure sounds like the bean counters are counting the costs and it will be considerable.

 

[twnjrspc]

Brett,

I heard the same thing about a month ago regarding the wide difference in exact dollar amount of liability as being a potential hurdle and it appears to be so based on the article. I see this latest as more of a jockeying move by the sides because if it were a fatal nail, the other talks would not continue. Besides, they need some drama in order to get the free time to go on those plush golfing and drinking excursions together and if we find out they give us the old "trying for reconcileation" routine!


twnjrspc,
I agree we need to watch what is happening to our pension plan regarding CS and no arguement we failed in that task. However, telling us to watch our plan and also the fact that we didn't make sure our plan was properly funded would also suggest we can't trust our union either. Is that what you are suggesting?

You accuse Tie of being a dictatorial strongarm (and yes he can be) but let me pose this question. When it comes to someone offering an honest opinion that is also critical of the union and/or it's policy, how quick are you not to strong arm back to putdown such opinions? I even have to wonder if you are even covered by CS in the first place (your comments to Scratch appear to make you removed from said blame so therefore the conculsion you are not CS covered)so just what is your dog in this fight if that is the case? Or are you using the bully pulpit to keep the other troops in line only to in the end benefit yourself and protect what you have that you consider a good deal? What's wrong with other union members from trying to come up with something better in light of the fact that the current situation is in trouble for whatever reason? OK you want us to stay in the union only fold, then take your plan and our CS plan and combine it. Step up my friend and show what a true union brother you really are and be a guiding light of an example to the rest of us.

There are and will be both pros and cons to whatever emerges from these contract negociations and it's hard to say at this point which way it will go. I can't stay at this moment when all the facts aren't in that I'll even support a IBT/UPS plan. Just because a contract has this in it doesn't mean the membership can't vote it down and what does it say if they stick with CS and the membership votes that down? Never say never!

If we do stay with CS, it's apparent to all that some actions on their part have not been in our best interest just as quick as you could also point that claim agianst the union, the company and yes even those of us under CS plans. IMO there's enough guilt to go around for all. However, I think those expressing the most opposition to the idea of a IBT/UPS plan to replace CS are mostly those not even covered by the plan to begin with. It's way to early IMO to offer opposition just as it is for total endorsement because we really have no details on it to begin with.

From where I sit, you and tie really have a lot in common and are likely more alike than you want to admit.

JMHO.

Easy there Hot rod, you've been huffing to much nitro! As far as Tie, you have no idea of the heated debates he and I have had in the past with one another. Do you? Or what? Do you speak for him now? And no, I'm not a part of the CS Plan. My point was simply put. Why did the majority of the Central States members, vote the Hoffa Aministration back into office a second time, knowing full well the condition of your fund? Don't dance around the issue, the numbers don't lie. Where were you when you had an opportunity to step up and vote them out, my union brother? What was your role in trying to reform your situation back them.

Look my Top fuel friend, I'm on your side, and understand how you feel. We all had an opportunity to Dump Hoffa, and reform, but we failed, and that's what upsets me. The Central States Pension was a hot topic during last falls election, and all of us Teamsters, CS or not, realized what happened to you, could happen to us. I was shocked to see how the CS voted, let alone the rest of the country. Unfortunatley it takes situations like this to bring people together, so there's no need to go on the attack with me, I'm not the bully.

 

[twnjrspc]

Wow, you bring up the vote. Have much creditability does that vote really have. I believe its rigged myself. Come on folks do you really think the teamsters want you to have control of your own destiny. Ha, your only fooling yourself. The teamsters officals are only looking out for their best interest not yours. UPS should have control over the CS plan. If caution is applied in this manner I believe the odds will be better for the UPS employees in the plan. I being in Virgina really do feel for those that are in the CS plan. Im surprised no one has gone Parcel yet.

Spoken like true management. Was that right from the book?

 

[wkmac]

Easy there Hot rod, you've been huffing to much nitro! As far as Tie, you have no idea of the heated debates he and I have had in the past with one another. Do you? Or what? Do you speak for him now? And no, I'm not a part of the CS Plan. My point was simply put. Why did the majority of the Central States members, vote the Hoffa Aministration back into office a second time, knowing full well the condition of your fund? Don't dance around the issue, the numbers don't lie. Where were you when you had an opportunity to step up and vote them out, my union brother? What was your role in trying to reform your situation back them.

Look my Top fuel friend, I'm on your side, and understand how you feel. We all had an opportunity to Dump Hoffa, and reform, but we failed, and that's what upsets me. The Central States Pension was a hot topic during last falls election, and all of us Teamsters, CS or not, realized what happened to you, could happen to us. I was shocked to see how the CS voted, let alone the rest of the country. Unfortunatley it takes situations like this to bring people together, so there's no need to go on the attack with me, I'm not the bully.

Oh, I've had my run ins with Tie as well and although I don't know of your specifics, knowing him I can understand your comments.

Now as for CS. Your comments to which I responded just came across as "another defender of the faith" so to speak and this that wasn't the case, sorry. I've just seen so much of that especially from folks outside the CS problem. As for a majority of CS folks voting for Hoffa, I would say that is true among the CS who actually voted. When you factor in the the folks who voted for Leedham and the folks who choose not to vote, then does that majority picture still hold true? Even if this still doesn't constitute a majority, it would at least change the picture of some glowing endorsement of Hoffa IMO.

We've had the so-called old guard running things for years and then we attempted a change in Carey and now we are back to the old guard so to speak IMO but what has really change about the union and our situation in that time? Carey for whom I voted IMO knew about the growing problem with CS but still in order to protect the system so to speak or in some ways himself, did the wrong thing and raised CS pension payouts in return of UPS' 97' pension contract offer and IMO he had to know based on the demographic numbers that down the road the piper would have to be paid and in Nov 2004' the bill came due. So in my view, whether old guard or reformers, nothing meaningful really changes and no one comes in willing to be innovative and realize that for better or worse, there is a new world of 21st century situation regarding labor/management relations and business conditions and these folks seem to me to be approaching everything from a 20th and in some cases a 19th century perspective. Are all those old ideas dead and out of date? Of course not but you also have to be willing to commit to the best interest of your membership and IMO that means exploring any and all potentials to see what they might bring. It doesn't mean you go with them but it does mean you give them open consideration and open discussion among the members. When people see and know that you considered all possibles and still when things go wrong, they are more apt at working the problem and overcoming rather than clamoring for wholesale change.

Is CS salvagable? I would want to say yes but do I have all the facts? No. A big example of the "no" answer is how top secret CS has been with it's actuary tables to the point that people have tired going to court to get them and to my knowledge were unsuccessful but someone else may be able to give more details that I'm not aware of. I believe just after the Nov. 04' changes even Hoffa claimed he would commission his own independent actuary study but why? Can't he get this himself from CS or is he grandstanding for political points?

You know I find it ironic that there are a few who have funds that are solely UPS funds to a certain extent and those funds are doing very well. Now that the folks in the CS region have a chance to in some way mirror those same type situations, out come the faithful to condemn the very thought that we would even do such a thing. And what's even worse is the fact that we in CS are trying to look at many options to how to best secure our own futures and we have those that would attack such efforts. I don't know how this whole thing will shake out but I do know this. Unless some major changes do take place, the fund is in such trouble that when the new federal laws come into play next year, it won't be pretty. The threat of those new laws is one of the driving factors that has forced the union and UPS to open the contract talks early to avoid a major train wreck that neither side wants to see and if it happens, both my suffer longstanding if not permanent harm and that has em' both scared.

It just gets pretty old from our standpoint of having the company on one side knowing at any moment their plan in the longrun could be disaster and then on the otherside with CS, this too could be of equal disaster and then as we try and wade through all this BS, we got other area Nahsayers from all sides wading in the middle and mudding up the water while all we're trying to do is get the water clear enough so we can see the truth. Don't want me to bully back? Sit your butt on the shore and stay out of the water and stop mudding it up. Tells me where you see the clear spots from your perspective, I'll appreiate that, but don't hinder our efforts. When your ultimately faced with a choice IMO of following the Devil on the one hand and Satan on the other, they last thing I want to here in what comes across as one of their cheerleaders who in the end appears to really only protecting their own interest.

Harsh words on my part? Yeah, I would agree and maybe not needed but these are harsh times so there you go!

Wish us luck because before this is over I'm sure we are gonna need it.

 

[sawdusttv]

Easy there Hot rod, you've been huffing to much nitro! As far as Tie, you have no idea of the heated debates he and I have had in the past with one another. Do you? Or what? Do you speak for him now? And no, I'm not a part of the CS Plan. My point was simply put. Why did the majority of the Central States members, vote the Hoffa Aministration back into office a second time, knowing full well the condition of your fund? Don't dance around the issue, the numbers don't lie. Where were you when you had an opportunity to step up and vote them out, my union brother? What was your role in trying to reform your situation back them.

Look my Top fuel friend, I'm on your side, and understand how you feel. We all had an opportunity to Dump Hoffa, and reform, but we failed, and that's what upsets me. The Central States Pension was a hot topic during last falls election, and all of us Teamsters, CS or not, realized what happened to you, could happen to us. I was shocked to see how the CS voted, let alone the rest of the country. Unfortunatley it takes situations like this to bring people together, so there's no need to go on the attack with me, I'm not the bully.

I don't know about the majority voting Hoffa back in. I am in the CS plan and have yet to find a single person who will admit to voting for Hoffa!

 

[Cole]

I agree Saw!

Where were you when you had an opportunity to step up and vote them out, my union brother? What was your role in trying to reform your situation back them.

Frankly I sure didn't support Hoffa, but Leedham had a weak campaign due to lack of funding, and people obviousley didn't feel the need to participate, thinking things would go on as usual. Everyone I came across I spoke up for Leedham.

 

[scratch]

I agree Saw!
Frankly I sure didn't support Hoffa, but Leedham had a weak campaign due to lack of funding, and people obviousley didn't feel the need to participate, thinking things would go on as usual. Everyone I came across I spoke up for Leedham.

Thats the same boat I'm in. With 18-20% of Teamsters not bothering to check a box and drop it in the mailbox, I thought the election was a pathetic showing. I have always supported reform in the IBT, I joined in the seventies when it was full of corruption. I feel I have earned every right to complain about Central States, I have watched its decline for 15-20 years. I voted for Carey and was disappointed in events leading up to the '97 Strike that never should have happened in the first place. Look where Central States is now. We used to get 30 and out at any age, and would draw $3000 a month. Now its work till 62 and draw $2550 if you are married. I started in 1975 and am 49 now. Thirteen more years to get what is left? $1000 a month after CS goes under and the government takes it over? Lets not get into the Health Insurance. I wrote out about $3000 last twelve months in lab, radiologist, doctor, and hospital bills that Blue Cross/Blue Shield didn't pay. I'm for a UPS/Teamster only plan.

 

[tieguy]

Hail to the Benevalant Dictator, whom so closely relates to his fellow Communist Dictator in North Korea. Bravo Tieguy! However, the future of the articles writer, would be short lived. Dictators such as yourself do not welcome any difference of opinion, no matter how factful they may be.

Then He and you should prosper my friend because its clear the lenist brainwashing is not wearing off.

 

[tieguy]

If the current Teamster Leadership, that was voted in by a majority of those in the Central States, not once, but recently for the seond time, would have negotiated the proper contributions to the fund, then perhaps the fund would not be in the situation it is.

thats the problem my friend (or would comrade work better) you've had your nose buried so far in the propaganda training manual you don't even understand how bad off CS really is. I thank you for quoting me twice I couldn't get quoted once in the old soviet union.

 

[tieguy]

Wow, you bring up the vote. Have much creditability does that vote really have. I believe its rigged myself. Come on folks do you really think the teamsters want you to have control of your own destiny. Ha, your only fooling yourself. The teamsters officals are only looking out for their best interest not yours.

very good point. Think about this. UPS disbursing your retirement money directly into your 401k plan every month. That would be a terrific thing for you but clearly against the interests of the union. And another reason this mess is such a mess.

But yet it represents how the union operates. They want the money in their plan so the money is still there if the company folds.

So why not take the same philosophy a step further and put that retirement money in your 401K or give you the option.

If you had that option years ago then CS would be a non issue right now.

 

[tieguy]

Spoken like true management. Was that right from the book?

LOL, after correcting wkmac on his point that you strongarm opinion you then turn right around and do it again.

 

[Cole]

So why not take the same philosophy a step further and put that retirement money in your 401K or give you the option.

If you had that option years ago then CS would be a non issue right now.

Hate to admit it, but I agree somewhat with you Tie.

 

[tieguy]

Hate to admit it, but I agree somewhat with you Tie.

Lol, every now and then the stars align.

 

[twnjrspc]

thats the problem my friend (or would comrade work better) you've had your nose buried so far in the propaganda training manual you don't even understand how bad off CS really is. I thank you for quoting me twice I couldn't get quoted once in the old soviet union.

Ain't never done no book learnin Boss man. It's your kind that created the monster. Come on take some credit. Can't begin to count just how many whips your boys wore out on me. Sorry, not gonna forgive and forget. Put the koolaid away, not gonna drink it. Nope, not gonna do it. Oh! and you're welcome!

 

[twnjrspc]

LOL, after correcting wkmac on his point that you strongarm opinion you then turn right around and do it again.

That quote was to area 43. He must be your comrade.

 

[tieguy]

Ain't never done no book learnin Boss man. It's your kind that created the monster. Come on take some credit. Can't begin to count just how many whips your boys wore out on me. Sorry, not gonna forgive and forget. Put the koolaid away, not gonna drink it. Nope, not gonna do it. Oh! and you're welcome!

lol, so after you feed us some propaganda in a language of the propagandist you now try to sound like one of the fellas? now thats funny.

my boys whipped you and you stuck around? Sounds like you have a whipping fetish.