UPS offer on the Table for takeover of Central States fund !

[wildgoose]

Looks like Ups opened up a Bee`s nest offering to pay for withdrawl and takeover the Central States fund. At this point it might not be a bad deal since the Teamsters can`t offer a fix or answers.

http://www.teamster.org/07news/hn_070510_3.asp Teamsters have made their bed now lets see if they can find two legs to stand on to sway their constituents !

 

[RockyRogue]

Looks like Ups opened up a Bee`s nest offering to pay for withdrawl and takeover the Central States fund. At this point it might not be a bad deal since the Teamsters can`t offer a fix or answers.

Interesting. We disagree on a lot of things, Goose, but this caught my attention. Let's hope the Teamsters do the the right thing for once! -Rocky

 

[705red]

Interesting. We disagree on a lot of things, Goose, but this caught my attention. Let's hope the Teamsters do the the right thing for once! -Rocky

Rocky what would be the right thing here? It sounds like a great idea, but it isnt a long term solution.

Lets say ups goes ahead and funds the cs 100% does that fix the problem? How many other companys will option out really hurting the cs plan and current retirees that fought to get us were we are at today.

Im just bringing up points here, i have to look more into it before i will give the thumbs up or down.

Let the debating begin!

 

[wildgoose]

Interesting. We disagree on a lot of things, Goose, but this caught my attention. Let's hope the Teamsters do the the right thing for once! -Rocky

Hey Rocky we don`t disagree on a lot of things - You just don`t see it my way !

 

[wildgoose]

Rocky what would be the right thing here? It sounds like a great idea, but it isnt a long term solution.

Lets say ups goes ahead and funds the cs 100% does that fix the problem? How many other companys will option out really hurting the cs plan and current retirees that fought to get us were we are at today.

Im just bringing up points here, i have to look more into it before i will give the thumbs up or down.

Let the debating begin!

The companies that bellied up should have been restructured just like there doing to us now ! Responsibility lies within don`t you think ? And the same to us if Ups were to slide out like Enron !

 

[705red]

The companies that bellied up should have been restructured just like there doing to us now ! Responsibility lies within don`t you think ? And the same to us if Ups were to slide out like Enron !

I agree to a point, you have just retired and your company goes under, should you lose what you have earned to that point, or should your pension become say 50% of it because your old company no longer pays into the plan?

Companies come and go and is it fair to penalize already retired retirees? Our problem is with the cs and obviously some very bad investments not with the retirees.

If we option out are we turning our backs on the retirees and saying we dont care about you?

Or should we stay and fight and help the plan stabilize and carry some of the burden of the retired teamsters?

Not picking sides just looking through several different sets of eyes at the overall big picture.

 

[raceanoncr]

OH, NO! What happens to Engineer79 and all others that tout the APWA as the panacea that cures all ills??????

 

[cars27]

if u are collecting a pension and the compamy u worked for goes out of business or stops contributing to the fund those participants should have to go to the pbgc fund. it is unfair to have them collect a full pension at the expense of other members whos companies are paying their fair share. to argue otherwise is like saying u should get paid for not working isnt that socialism

 

[705red]

What happens in 25 years and we arent as big then as we are today who will float my pension for me?

Heres a quick comparison. Lets say we make $50,000 a year, now ups will give us $300,000 to go away, where will we be in the 7th year? Its seems like a real quick fix with no long term motivation that might criple the whole union movement.

 

[mittam]

I have read these replies and have the same concerns. I do now those retired now from UPS will still be taken care of. The question is about other companies retirees? Should our company be responsible for them also? I believe we need to take care of our own, do what we can to secure our people's futures. It may seem cruel or irresponsible to not take care of other companies people but at this stage we need to worry about our futures and hope we can survive this storm.

 

[BCFan]

Mittam that kinda thinking really sux...I mean let's not worry about our retired brothers and sisters that paved the way for us...My Dad was retired freight would you wanna see people like that starve? May when your parents get old they will be destined to be set adrift on a iceberg......love that (sic) compassion....BC

 

[705red]

I have read these replies and have the same concerns. I do now those retired now from UPS will still be taken care of. The question is about other companies retirees? Should our company be responsible for them also? I believe we need to take care of our own, do what we can to secure our people's futures. It may seem cruel or irresponsible to not take care of other companies people but at this stage we need to worry about our futures and hope we can survive this storm.

Ask yourself would we be where we are at without the sacrifices of others for us?

The typical upser response is to worry about themselves, but if our fellow teamsters didnt sacrifice by striking, organizing, fist fighting and even dieing in the streets for us(all teamsters). This is a conversation that we shouldnt even be having, i have researched and dug deep into my self and i will be the first one to come out against this, and turning my back on my fellow retired teamsters.

They sacrificed for us and now im willing to sacrifice for them! How many other companies will start bailing on pension plans around the country? Why would any company stay in the cs plan if ups funds it 100%, there will be no penalty for them just to up and leave, now were are the retirees getting paid from.

Just think about it. What happens if that was you collecting that pension taking care of your grand kids on that monthly payment and then it disappears. After all you have done, when will enough be enough? I am a proud teamster, but if this happens i might not ever be able to raise my head again!

 

[RockyRogue]

Hey Rocky we don`t disagree on a lot of things - You just don`t see it my way !

I thought those were one and the same . I've never shied from a fight with you, Goose. I've also never denied being an opinionated SOB!

Rocky what would be the right thing here? It sounds like a great idea, but it isnt a long term solution.

Lets say ups goes ahead and funds the cs 100% does that fix the problem? How many other companys will option out really hurting the cs plan and current retirees that fought to get us were we are at today.

Im just bringing up points here, i have to look more into it before i will give the thumbs up or down.

Let the debating begin!

Red, you're kicking a bees nest with that question about the "right" thing. In some ways, the "right" thing would be to cut bait. That having been said, there are many retirees covered by Central States, many of them not retired UPS'ers. I guess the "right" thing would depend on this: do we think its right to trust CS to pay these retirees? I have my opinion on that one--one as a human being, the other as a UPS employee. Sometimes, the two may be in conflict. Regardless, I think its the best long-term solution to the pension problem at this time. This is the best option as far as keeping the pension--for now. Do you (or anyone else) have a better idea???

And lets be one 100% clear: UPS will not fund Central States to its fully-funded level. Doing so would result in a justifiable lynching of UPS corporate management by shareholders not employed by UPS. OK...I think I'm done for now. Let the flaming begin! -Rocky

 

[Cole]

I heard that UPS wants quite alot of concessions, on top of the CS as dual trustees with half Union half Company, but I can't be sure as I couldn't hear the person who called me too well.

I will be paying attention, so let's just keep our eyes on the ball. We are Teamsters still and until that changes we have to get involved, because like the APWA or not by their very existance the Teamsters are trying to step things up, and I am wondering if that isn't the strategy. Not saying it is, but you never know.

 

[wildgoose]

I heard that UPS wants quite alot of concessions, on top of the CS as dual trustees with half Union half Company, but I can't be sure as I couldn't hear the person who called me too well.

I will be paying attention, so let's just keep our eyes on the ball. We are Teamsters still and until that changes we have to get involved, because like the APWA or not by their very existance the Teamsters are trying to step things up, and I am wondering if that isn't the strategy. Not saying it is, but you never know.

I like many of us in the South we would rather have our own not ups/teamsters/independant watch over the fund. Thats why the support for APWA has increased 3 to 5 fold here in Florida. Its a start with the company but i would like UPS only employees fund and insurance. I for one have a real problem of collecting a pension and being told what not to do with my futrue retired time under Central States and then in New York you have only one restriction and thats not to work for Ups again ? Fix the issue and move on with our lives !

 

[JonFrum]

. . .And lets be 100% clear: UPS will not fund Central States to its fully-funded level. . .

Rocky,

UPS is legally obligated to fund the UPS portion of Central States' unfunded vested liability. As soon as UPS withdraws from the fund, either by switching to a seperate UPS-Teamsters fund or to an APWA fund, Central States will bill them. TDU is reporting the Withdrawal Liability that UPS will owe to Central States as roughly $4 billion. In effect, UPS, or any departing employer, must make Central States 100% funded, at least with regard to its own employeees' vested benefits. Employers can not walk away from their debts. ERISA doesn't allow it.

UPS does not owe anything for non-UPSers, either active or retired.

I posted hall announcement of the new UPS pension plan proposal, and TDU's comments, here. . . .

 

[Pension]

I have read these replies and have the same concerns. I do now those retired now from UPS will still be taken care of. The question is about other companies retirees? Should our company be responsible for them also? I believe we need to take care of our own, do what we can to secure our people's futures. It may seem cruel or irresponsible to not take care of other companies people but at this stage we need to worry about our futures and hope we can survive this storm.

Not cruel at all. What is cruel is the lack of concern and help from the other Teamster pension funds (like the one in NJ), are we not all part of the same union?

 

[wyobill]

UPS wants out of all these multi - employer pension funds.
The last thing they want to do is take one over. I cant imagine that would be even be legal to take over a fund.
I understood the goverment came close taking control
of Central States if they didnt do something fast. Thats
why we had the pension reform.
Central States has been severly underfunded for many
years. Around 60% is what I have been told.

 

[wildgoose]

UPS wants out of all these multi - employer pension funds.
The last thing they want to do is take one over. I cant imagine that would be even be legal to take over a fund.
I understood the goverment came close taking control
of Central States if they didnt do something fast. Thats
why we had the pension reform.
Central States has been severly underfunded for many
years. Around 60% is what I have been told.

Funding is around the 47%

 

[wyobill]

All the more reason for UPS wanting to withdraw.