vote no!

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by runner45, Oct 22, 2007.

  1. runner45

    runner45 New Member

    I will be voting no on the contract. Article 6 with the GPS discipline is enough by itself to say no. This would be our biggest nightmare if it passes. Please spread the word for a no vote until we at least get this out of the contract. Some will not listen but some will see how awful this could get. I am not a regular here but am very concerned. If this passes, bend over.
  2. Leftinbuilding

    Leftinbuilding Active Member

    Vote no? Really? What a unique suggestion.
  3. browned_out

    browned_out Member

    :lol: When you use "spread" and "bend over" in the same paragraph it scares me.
  4. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned

  5. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    And why are you so worried about GPS? What are you doing during the day that you aren't supposed to?
  6. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    I agree. If you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't be a concern. Now, if ya'll have something to hide.....-Rocky
  7. Damok

    Damok Member

    No one ever gets everything he or she or they want in a contract - it's the nature of the beast (compromise). The fact that you take one aspect of the contract and say you will vote no makes me laugh.
  8. sawdusttv

    sawdusttv Active Member


    First, I must say that I am not trying to offend, but I must ask.
    Are you in managemnt?

    Now, as far as the reasons for voting no, I am sure that the employees voting no are not making there decision off of one issue, they are merely pointing out one issue that they feel is important.
    Furthermore, this is not your run of the mill contract negotiation, with just another average at best company. NO! UPS makes 4 billion dollars plus in profit every year and yet it looks like they are always trying to nickel and dime its employees. Now, I know everyone has there opinion on that subject, and this is mine. I personally feel, that if the company were a little more generous with its employees and made it known that one of their priorities was to look after their employees and retirees. They would have a much harder working, much more loyal work force, that would go to bat for the company when needed.
  9. Damok

    Damok Member

    No offense taken :) No I am not in Mgt. I have close to 8 years with the company and have been a Teamster for most of that time. I understand having an issue or multiple issues that rub people the wrong way, however it seems like there are a whole lot of people posting about how awful the contract is and why everyone should vote no and how they can't understand how anyone could vote yes. This particular thread seemed odd to me only because it was about GPS discipline and how it would be a nightmare. I'm not quite sure how much of a nightmare it would be if you are doing your job to the best of your ability. If it comes to pass that the company abuses the GPS discipline language then it will be a much different story and I will be right there with the rest of you calling foul. However, I dislike the idea of assuming it will be horrible before it even takes place.

    I agree that UPS makes a ton of money and I also believe there is a huge discrepancy between what a new employee makes vs what the upper echelon of management makes and it should be addressed. In my opinion the first step needs to be an across the board reckoning for CEO's making outrageous salaries and getting obscene golden parachutes while the people who shoulder the workload get the short end. On the flip side I think people who have been at UPS for a while make very very good money and I get a little sick when I hear certain people (in my hub as that is my experience) cry and moan about how $32 / hr is not enough and they need more - It is what got the UAW in trouble.

    Now I stated that I am in the Union but that by no stretch of the imagination means I think they are perfect. To address your last point there is an us vs them mentality that it fostered in a union environment that, in my opinion, is more detrimental to loyalty and productivity than wage discrepancy. I believe a union is just like any other political organization or single politician. There comes a time when it becomes more about keeping their jobs than protecting their members. PT's don't vote nearly as much as FTs so their needs don't get focused on by the company or the Union nearly as much as they should. The PTs are just as much to blame here as anyone though. Apathy is a terrible terrible thing.

    I am in the Union because I believe it can be a strong force for its members as well as for the well being and longevity of the company and I cast a vote with that in mind. I don't bleed brown and I don't bleed... whatever color the union is :) I try to take each issue on its own merits and make a decision based on the information as I see it. I am here on these forums for the same reason... I see too many people trying to force their ideas on others and I see too many posts indicating people are not thinking on their own and it infuriates me.

    I get mad, I get frustrated, I get sarcastic, I try to be funny but it all comes down to me trying to do what I believe is best.

    Pardon the rambling :)
  10. govols019

    govols019 You smell that?

    We were told when they enabled the GPS system in our DIAD that it was not to be used for disciplinary actions but only as a tool to help make EDD better. We see how that worked out.

    The fact that it could be abused and made into a nightmare is why you don't allow language like that in the contract. Crying foul after the fact does you no good.
  11. Damok

    Damok Member

    I would imagine there are any number of things that could be construed as being possible abuse fodder. What if'ing each of them would be an exercise in futility. It may turn out to be true but it may not but crying foul before it becomes evident does you no good.
  12. govols019

    govols019 You smell that?

    You're right. It's far better to be reactive than proactive.
  13. sawdusttv

    sawdusttv Active Member

    I will go as far as saying that, I believe that the main reason for the GPS is disciplinary. The daily operation report was not to be used as a disiplinary tool either, but I was called into the office with the shop stewart, and they had three days of reports out on the desk with yellow highlighter all over it. They tried to terminate my based on those reports. I am still here, so you see it didn't work, but only because I always try to cover my butt while on the clock, otherwise I would have been gone. SO, believe me, it can and will be used for discipline, otherwise there would be no reason for them to have language covering this subject.
  14. #1angelfan

    #1angelfan New Member

    i will be voting no. i'm a 9 year part-timer. i know that i'm not capable of being a driver, so my only hope is to get a combo job, which if the new contract passes, they won't be making anymore full-time combo jobs. i also do not agree with the split raises. and i really don't agree with the starting rate being stuck at 8.50. our minimum wage here in california goes up to 8.00 on 1/1/2008. i don't think they will get anyone new to work here.
  15. Damok

    Damok Member

    How far do you go with being proactive? When does it become too much? How do you know ahead of time, every time, that you're right? I guess not being a driver clouds my judgment on this one so I will defer to those of you whom it directly effects.
  16. Damok

    Damok Member

    Just to play devil's advocate :) Is it possible that some things are instituted with the intention of being business decisions which are later found to be avenues to mess with employees? If so, wouldn't it be better to address those issues as they happen through grievances and arbitration?
  17. Peep O'Day Boys

    Peep O'Day Boys New Member

    The mere fact that Hoffa & Hall are pushing through this "Best Ever Contract" a year ahead of time, not allowing the members the time to review it, is indication enough for me to vote NO!
  18. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned


    GPS isnt an issue of doing something wrong. Its a matter of a valuable "giveback" in protections. Since 1997 we have kept electronic information from harming any member and now, article 6 opens a door we wont be able to close until 2013.

    The issue of GPS is simple, as a driver of 17 years, if I leave my trace and go help out a buddy without the center knowing about it, will this be used to discipline me for leaving my trace?

    Sounds like a no brainer and most would say the company wouldnt act on it, however, as we all know as drivers, depending on whos running the ops at the time, this could be considered leaving trace and the company could in effect discipline me.

    Now, the language is vague and ambigous. We have never allowed electronic info to be used against us and we should never open that door.

    If the company wants to know what we are doing, then by all means, brown out and ride along or do a field observation and verify the trace.

    Otherwise, leave electronic date out of the loop.

  19. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    Quoted for truth!:thumbup1:
  20. Damok

    Damok Member

    That struck me... it's something I hadn't considered and it's most likely a direct result of me not being a driver. However I would still say it could be handled by grievances or, if necessary, arbitration. Of course, having been through the grievance procedure (not arbitration though), I understand that it's a hassle.