Voting out Bonus

[pretzel_man]

Accepted practice? Not by State Laws. Not by Union Contract.

Jon,

Before there were state laws about taking lunch, we used to call it "buying back the lunch". It was understood and accepted.

It is no longer allowed.

P-Man

 

[Jones]

I guess you conveniently overlooked the statement in my post I made to this point - "As an aside, he made more bonus on some routes than others."

I understand that the same person running one route will run a different Over/Underallowed than he/she will on another. Work Allowances are by design are "only accurate to within +/- 5% on 95% of the routes and for only 95% of the time". I was taught that 30 years ago and it had been around 30 years before that. No system is perfect and certainly not perfectly fair. I believe there is a process in place for drivers to bid on routes. If the allowances are unrealistically tight, then UPS will not realize the benefits of a bonus system. A bonus system where no drivers are able to make bonus is not a bonus center.

Not wanting to be crass here but it seems that one can make a natural conclusion that the people who are so against Bonus are against it because they cannot make bonus and don't want others to gain from a system from which they never get any benefits. That's understandable but not commendable.

I guess baseball players on the bench make pithy remarks about the everyday players who get more hits, more RBIs and more home runs and consequently better contracts with more money.

All those years of sitting behind a desk haven't taught you any more about baseball players than they have about drivers. Baseball players don't complain because they are all judged by the same standard. As Sober would say, that standard is transparent and verifiable. The bonus system is not. A system that rewards the participants differently for the same effort is not fair, and that's what most drivers don't like about bonus.

 

[Catatonic]

Baseball players don't complain because they are all judged by the same standard. As Sober would say, that standard is transparent and verifiable. The bonus system is not. A system that rewards the participants differently for the same effort is not fair, and that's what most drivers don't like about bonus.

Good reply and a very strong reason ... I applaud you (and gave you positive rep).

So I guess anything that is not perfect will ever be acceptable to some people. I also wish I lived in a perfect world where every thing was fair. But then again maybe not - I might have benefited all these years from preferential treatment.

 

[Jones]

Good reply and a very strong reason ... I applaud you (and gave you positive rep).

So I guess anything that is not perfect will ever be acceptable to some people. I also wish I lived in a perfect world where every thing was fair. But then again maybe not - I might have benefited all these years from preferential treatment.

Nobody here is commenting or complaining about your job situation, that's your business. You're the one who's badmouthing drivers, suggesting that if they aren't making bonus it's solely because they're just not good enough (not .300 hitters to use your analogy).

 

[Anonymous 10]

Sure, because all the time studies are the same right? Every route has a fair, accurate timestudy and if you cant follow the methods, take your lunch, and still beat the standards by an hour well, you're just not a .300 hitter. I guess it all looks the same from behind a desk in Atlanta.

You said it and that's what I was saying

 

[Catatonic]

Nobody here is commenting or complaining about your job situation, that's your business. You're the one who's badmouthing drivers, suggesting that if they aren't making bonus it's solely because they're just not good enough (not .300 hitters to use your analogy).

That certainly was not my intent and if that is how it came across, I apologize.

I agree it is an imperfect system and the measurements are not perfect. However, if someone is making bonus on a route and if another driver has more seniority, they can bid on the route.
Some drivers make bonus on just about every route they run and then others don't make bonus on any routes they run.
I understand that one of the underlying principles of the Union is that everyone makes the same and everyone is treated the same and Bonus is contradictory to that philosophy.
At the same time, I strongly believe in providing the freedom to those who want to work harder to make more money - to me that is the American way.

 

[brownmonster]

That certainly was not my intent and if that is how it came across, I apologize.

I agree it is an imperfect system and the measurements are not perfect. However, if someone is making bonus on a route and if another driver has more seniority, they can bid on the route.
Some drivers make bonus on just about every route they run and then others don't make bonus on any routes they run.
I understand that one of the underlying principles of the Union is that everyone makes the same and everyone is treated the same and Bonus is contradictory to that philosophy.
At the same time, I strongly believe in providing the freedom to those who want to work harder to make more money - to me that is the American way.

Nail on head!

 

[Jones]

Personally I couldn't care less about the bonus system. Last bid I took a route with worse standards because I knew it would mean more overtime (bonus doesn't count towards our pension). If all the bonus system meant was that senior drivers could bid a route with a fat time study and make a little extra money I doubt anyone else would care either. What makes me personally angry is when a hard working driver on a route with a lousy time study gets treated like a slacker, and your comment about drivers who aren't .300 hitters epitomized that.

 

[Catatonic]

Personally I couldn't care less about the bonus system. Last bid I took a route with worse standards because I knew it would mean more overtime (bonus doesn't count towards our pension). If all the bonus system meant was that senior drivers could bid a route with a fat time study and make a little extra money I doubt anyone else would care either. What makes me personally angry is when a hard working driver on a route with a lousy time study gets treated like a slacker, and your comment about drivers who aren't .300 hitters epitomized that.

If you want to concentrate on that small part of the overall argument, then - OK, you win.
I think there were several good points on each side of the argument and that is a good thing.
Enjoyed the dialog but as is often is the case - "No one was saved!".
Have a good night - off to bed.

 

[Jones]

If you want to concentrate on that small part of the overall argument, then - OK, you win.
I think there were several good points on each side of the argument and that is a good thing.
Enjoyed the dialog but as is often is the case - "No one was saved!".
Have a good night - off to bed.

It wasn't a small part of the argument, it was pretty much your whole argument. You added a lot of excess verbiage about hard work and "the american way", but your salient point was that any driver who didn't like the bonus system was a subpar worker who couldn't make bonus because he/she either lacked the ability or was just too lazy.

 

[Catatonic]

It wasn't a small part of the argument, it was pretty much your whole argument. You added a lot of excess verbiage about hard work and "the american way", but your salient point was that any driver who didn't like the bonus system was a subpar worker who couldn't make bonus because he/she either lacked the ability or was just too lazy.

That may have been your perception and that perception may have been because of my unintentional wording. I read back through the posts and I still do not see that in what I posted.
I give you my word that it never crossed my mind that "any driver that can not make bonus is because they are lazy or lacked the ability".
I apologized once before and I do so again if I gave that false impression of what I was actually thinking.
You can either accept that as sincere or not, that is up to you.

 

[Jones]

That may have been your perception and that perception may have been because of my unintentional wording. I read back through the posts and I still do not see that in what I posted.
I give you my word that it never crossed my mind that "any driver that can not make bonus is because they are lazy or lacked the ability".
I apologized once before and I do so again if I gave that false impression of what I was actually thinking.
You can either accept that as sincere or not, that is up to you.

Aren't you supposed to be in bed?

 

[Catatonic]

Aren't you supposed to be in bed?

You've given me a guilty conscious and I cannot sleep!

 

[JonFrum]

Jon,

Before there were state laws about taking lunch, we used to call it "buying back the lunch". It was understood and accepted.

It is no longer allowed.

P-Man

You don't really mean to suggest that as each state passed a law about taking a lunch, UPS suddenly enforced taking lunch throughout that state, do you? If so, that should have happened decades ago.

And what about OSHA regulations, not to mention the Union Contract?

 

[JonFrum]

UPS can change the time allowances for a route at any time. They can also change the route with add/cuts. And the route itself will change over time, and with the seasons, and day to day. Therefore there is no security in bidding a route based on its current current configuration or time allowance, especially if bidding is done only once a year or once every two years. A route must be available to you to be bid on in the first place. And drivers near the bottom of the list can't bid at all.

 

[whiskey]

Bonus is unsafe which makes UPS a unsafe environment as long as this short cut system is in place in your center. This is just my opinion so lynch me if you want.

I agree. Axe the bonus and create more Teamster jobs. Teamsters are the sole reason UPS is what they are today.

 

[Old International]

The bonus in our center is paid at time and a half. And I am one of those drivers, that once I had the car set up, I didn't have to go back and recheck the load, I just got out there and delivered it. I did not skip my lunch, or my 10 minute break when that came into being. As I stated before, I also knew where everybody worked, and what cars my regular customers drove.

 

[Catatonic]

I agree. Axe the bonus and create more Teamster jobs. Teamsters are the sole reason UPS is what they are today.

Sole reason? I assume that was meant to be funny.

 

[diesel96]

That certainly was not my intent and if that is how it came across, I apologize.

I agree it is an imperfect system and the measurements are not perfect. However, if someone is making bonus on a route and if another driver has more seniority, they can bid on the route.
Some drivers make bonus on just about every route they run and then others don't make bonus on any routes they run.
I understand that one of the underlying principles of the Union is that everyone makes the same and everyone is treated the same and Bonus is contradictory to that philosophy.
At the same time, I strongly believe in providing the freedom to those who want to work harder to make more money - to me that is the American way.

Depends what your definition of "harder" is....Providing freedom to make more money thru bonus is swell, however, it also provides an avenue to tweak the system and create risky

behavioral short cuts, therefore making it impossible to measure effectiveness....

One can always say, "some of those who don't make bonus, could also reflect higher integrity in their work ethic" resulting in higher quality service.

The American way used to boast quality, remember the seal of approval "Made in the USA", this concept is almost extinct.....Now for quantified purposes and maximum profit bonus

"Made in China" has become the norm.....JMHO

 

[Catatonic]

Depends what your definition of "harder" is....Providing freedom to make more money thru bonus is swell, however, it also provides an avenue to tweak the system and create risky

behavioral short cuts, therefore making it impossible to measure effectiveness....

One can always say, "some of those who don't make bonus, could also reflect higher integrity in their work ethic" resulting in higher quality service.

The American way used to boast quality, remember the seal of approval "Made in the USA", this concept is almost extinct.....Now for quantified purposes and maximum profit bonus

"Made in China" has become the norm.....JMHO

Good points. No system is perfect and any system can be compromized.