Voting out Bonus

[hellfire]

The biggest problem with bonus in a union environment is the union wants as many people doing as little as possible. As a worker, if I can work faster while still maintaining quality and make more money, I'm all for it. Piece work is all over the factories around here and you get the same arguments. Poor allowances and corner cutting. Go to your local grocery store. Some people can scan or bag your groceries in slow motion and others are like a well oiled machine. Bottom line. Some are just better workers than others.

Bingo

 

[pretzel_man]

You don't really mean to suggest that as each state passed a law about taking a lunch, UPS suddenly enforced taking lunch throughout that state, do you? If so, that should have happened decades ago.

And what about OSHA regulations, not to mention the Union Contract?

Do a search for "California Meal and Rest Periods"

This is what started UPS enforcing lunch periods.

Many states have no provisions.

 

[beentheredonethat]

I agree. Axe the bonus and create more Teamster jobs. Teamsters are the sole reason UPS is what they are today.

You are delusional... I will certainly agree that the drivers are the face of UPS to the customer. I will agree, the teamsters overall do a good job and are compensated for it. But it definitely isn't the sole reason for UPS being the way it is. What if UPS never expanded? What if we never tried to cover the entire US with inter and intra state delivery? What if UPS never ventured outside of the US? Our fastest growing areas are overseas, and those service providers aren't teamsters. What if we didn't invest billions and offer NDA service? What if we hadn't invested billions and offered technology to the customers (DIAD's as one example). Those decisions made is one of the reasons UPS is so successful today, and those decisions were made by the mgmt team at UPS.

 

[grgrcr88]

We have two centers in our building, both are bonus. The one I do not work in voted it out a few years back, voted it back in within 3 weeks.

 

[Re-Raise]

I work in a bonus center and I really don't give it much thought. I run pretty close to scratch but on some days I might get a half hour or so of bonus.

Our bonus is paid at time and a half just like overtime.

Some of the comments on here are similar to things I hear at my center. There are drivers who are jealous that their time allowance isn't as loose as others and they think that it isn't fair that some guys are being paid extra.

I just don't think that way I guess. Why would I give away a chance at extra compensation just to punish others who might get "more" extra compensation.

I also would never take shortcuts to make bonus. I look at my UPS career as a marathon not a sprint. It is more important to me that I stay in shape, work safely, and the people on my route are happy with their service then whether I get a few extra dollars a week.

 

[brownmonster]

I work in a bonus center and I really don't give it much thought. I run pretty close to scratch but on some days I might get a half hour or so of bonus.

Our bonus is paid at time and a half just like overtime.

Some of the comments on here are similar to things I hear at my center. There are drivers who are jealous that their time allowance isn't as loose as others and they think that it isn't fair that some guys are being paid extra.

I just don't think that way I guess. Why would I give away a chance at extra compensation just to punish others who might get "more" extra compensation.

I also would never take shortcuts to make bonus. I look at my UPS career as a marathon not a sprint. It is more important to me that I stay in shape, work safely, and the people on my route are happy with their service then whether I get a few extra dollars a week.

Those are the keys to a long career at UPS. Keep your own house in order and not worry about what others are doing.

 

[brownrod]

If you follow the job by the companies methods , and by the book I mean , I dont think there is a driver who can make bonus.

This is totally untrue. Maybe it is true in your center. It was true in my center before we recently got our new time studies. We were a bonus center where it was very rare that anyone earned bonus. Now, with the new time studies, I bonus almost every day.

The route I earn the most bonus t on I follow every methods 100%. Have to. It's a fully loaded p12 bulk business route that delivers the neighborhood our center is in. On that route I can get 1.5-2 hours bonus per day. Maybe the time study is screwed up in the drivers favor. I don't know.

It is also easy to earn bonus on high mileage rural routes while working safely. The key with these routes is to keep your (stops + miles)/hour above the magic number. The rural routes I know are very consistent with how many miles and stops your do per hour to scratch.

You need to know the routes like the back of your hand and waste no time. Don't talk to anyone. When EDD is wrong you alter your trace to something more efficient.

Maybe we lucked out and won the time study lottery. I don't know.

 

[rod]

This is totally untrue. Maybe it is true in your center. It was true in my center before we recently got our new time studies. We were a bonus center where it was very rare that anyone earned bonus. Now, with the new time studies, I bonus almost every day.

The route I earn the most bonus t on I follow every methods 100%. Have to. It's a fully loaded p12 bulk business route that delivers the neighborhood our center is in. On that route I can get 1.5-2 hours bonus per day. Maybe the time study is screwed up in the drivers favor. I don't know.

It is also easy to earn bonus on high mileage rural routes while working safely. The key with these routes is to keep your (stops + miles)/hour above the magic number. The rural routes I know are very consistent with how many miles and stops your do per hour to scratch.

You need to know the routes like the back of your hand and waste no time. Don't talk to anyone. When EDD is wrong you alter your trace to something more efficient.

Maybe we lucked out and won the time study lottery. I don't know.

Enjoy it while it lasts. I see a new time study for your center coming soon.

 

[JonFrum]

Do a search for "California Meal and Rest Periods"

This is what started UPS enforcing lunch periods.

Many states have no provisions.

I don't think California recently passed a lunch law. I think it was already passed years ago and UPS got sued for violating it and lost the $87 million suit.

Again, it's not just State laws, its also OSHA regulations (Federal OSHA and State OSHA), and most importantly decades of UNION CONTRACTS!!!

 

[JonFrum]

The biggest problem with bonus in a union environment is the union wants as many people doing as little as possible. As a worker, if I can work faster while still maintaining quality and make more money, I'm all for it. Piece work is all over the factories around here and you get the same arguments. Poor allowances and corner cutting. Go to your local grocery store. Some people can scan or bag your groceries in slow motion and others are like a well oiled machine. Bottom line. Some are just better workers than others.

My grocery store employs people with various handicaps, and yes, they are slow. This is not the case with UPS delivery drivers. No driver is allowed to be slow.

The problem with delivering fast is that it can't be done legally. If you're making better time than the other guy, you are almost guaranteed to be violating the speed and parking Laws or the Contract or Company Policy or The Methods or being rude and/or agressive in driving and interacting with customers.

Let's switch to Feeders for a minute. Suppose the speed limit is 55 MPH and the "route" is a one hour highway drive from one UPS building to another UPS building. How would you beat the regular driver by working harder and smarter if he follows the prescribed route and goes 55 MPH to begin with?

 

[pretzel_man]

I don't think California recently passed a lunch law. I think it was already passed years ago and UPS got sued for violating it and lost the $87 million suit.

Again, it's not just State laws, its also OSHA regulations (Federal OSHA and State OSHA), and most importantly decades of UNION CONTRACTS!!!

Let me try it again....

A number of years ago, California started holding companies accountable for employees to take their lunch. This was probably about 6 to 6 years ago...

When that happened, UPS got diligent about employees taking lunch. I do not know how long the California labor laws were in place, but i DO know that we used to call it buying back a lunch (for bonus drivers). There was not a problem from either the govt or union.

I also posted a link to labor laws by state. You will see that many do not have prescribed rules for lunch.

This tells me the rules are certainly not static and consistent.

P-Man

 

[Catatonic]

The problem with delivering fast is that it can't be done legally. If you're making better time than the other guy, you are almost guaranteed to be violating the speed and parking Laws or the Contract or Company Policy or The Methods or being rude and/or agressive in driving and interacting with customers.

Only problem with that assumption is that I have done it and, more importantly, I have observed drivers who ran underallowed and they worked safely, drove the speed limit and used the methods very, very well. It has been my observation that a driver cannot run underallowed unless they use the methods. I will agree they did not interact with customer except when they were scanning and doing all the things to complete the stop but they were courteous.

 

[brownmonster]

My grocery store employs people with various handicaps, and yes, they are slow. This is not the case with UPS delivery drivers. No driver is allowed to be slow.

The problem with delivering fast is that it can't be done legally. If you're making better time than the other guy, you are almost guaranteed to be violating the speed and parking Laws or the Contract or Company Policy or The Methods or being rude and/or agressive in driving and interacting with customers.

Let's switch to Feeders for a minute. Suppose the speed limit is 55 MPH and the "route" is a one hour highway drive from one UPS building to another UPS building. How would you beat the regular driver by working harder and smarter if he follows the prescribed route and goes 55 MPH to begin with?

That's not a valid comparison. On a route with 150 stops the time savings add up. Jimmy Johns can make a sandwhich in 30 seconds while it takes 3 or 4 minutes at Subway. Why? Better organization and better methods.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

The problem with delivering fast is that it can't be done legally. If you're making better time than the other guy, you are almost guaranteed to be violating the speed and parking Laws or the Contract or Company Policy or The Methods or being rude and/or agressive in driving and interacting with customers.

Jon, did you think for a moment that there may be some people who are simply more efficient than others? Interacting with the customer can be done while scanning. There is a fine line between interacting and bs ing.

 

[Jones]

Only problem with that assumption is that I have done it and, more importantly, I have observed drivers who ran underallowed and they worked safely, drove the speed limit and used the methods very, very well. It has been my observation that a driver cannot run underallowed unless they use the methods. I will agree they did not interact with customer except when they were scanning and doing all the things to complete the stop but they were courteous.

I think you're an intelligent fellow, but that's a ridiculous statement.

 

[whiskey]

t nigh

Sole reason? I assume that was meant to be funny.

Last night I had a dream I was walking along a beach with the lord. I was wearing a white shirt and tie and the lord had on a Teamster's hat. My whole life flashed before me. And I noticed there was always two sets of footprints in the sand. Now you know the rest of the story.
Yes, "sole" was embellished. A wee bit.

 

[Catatonic]

I think you're an intelligent fellow, but that's a ridiculous statement.

Perhaps the disconnect here is the use of the word "methods".
To me that means what is defined as proper driver methods in the 340 Methods ... I am guessing you extend your methods to include "procedures" and "local instructions".
The 340 methods are gleaned from observing thousands of drivers and taking all the things they do correctly that allows them to do their job in the least amount of time ... there is more to it than that but that is the gist.
Therefore, a driver not using the 340 methods is going to have to work harder to achieve the same results as a driver that uses the 340 methods.
P-Man, Tony and others familiar with the development and application of the methods as described in the 340 manual are welcome to add or correct what I have defined.

 

[hellfire]

Perhaps the disconnect here is the use of the word "methods".
To me that means what is defined as proper driver methods in the 340 Methods ... I am guessing you extend your methods to include "procedures" and "local instructions".
The 340 methods are gleaned from observing thousands of drivers and taking all the things they do correctly that allows them to do their job in the least amount of time ... there is more to it than that but that is the gist.
Therefore, a driver not using the 340 methods is going to have to work harder to achieve the same results as a driver that uses the 340 methods.
P-Man, Tony and others familiar with the development and application of the methods as described in the 340 manual are welcome to add or correct what I have defined.

as a bonus underallowed king i gotta disagree,, they look good on paper , as a nice reference guide,, but like alot of things that are drawn up by the mystery people in corporate its all smoke and mirrors

 

[Jones]

Perhaps the disconnect here is the use of the word "methods".
To me that means what is defined as proper driver methods in the 340 Methods ... I am guessing you extend your methods to include "procedures" and "local instructions".
The 340 methods are gleaned from observing thousands of drivers and taking all the things they do correctly that allows them to do their job in the least amount of time ... there is more to it than that but that is the gist.
Therefore, a driver not using the 340 methods is going to have to work harder to achieve the same results as a driver that uses the 340 methods.
P-Man, Tony and others familiar with the development and application of the methods as described in the 340 manual are welcome to add or correct what I have defined.

Take two drivers of equal physical ability and equal experience. Have them each run the same 50 housecalls in the same neighborhood.
Driver #1 uses all the methods to include: seatbelt on while wheels are moving, bulkhead door only open during package selection, and every stop the truck shutoff, parking brake on, keys on little finger.
Driver #2 doesn't use the seatbelt, keeps the bulkhead open the entire time, and never turns the truck off, just shifts between drive and park at each stop.
If you think the driver #1 is going to finish faster, I've got some beachfront property for you

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Damn! I'm sorry I missed this thread. I don't have a problem with bonus itself. Just the drivers that abuse it. The one hour (or more!) of bonus drivers that always whine about IE taking time from our allowances trip me out. They don't realize that THEY are the problem.