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vantexan

Well-Known Member
italy already has 30,000 workplaces like this

almost happened at GM in great depression

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Italy has a very tiny segment of its total businesses doing this but what you aren't saying is some types of business may make this possible like a small business with an owner operator who's interested in having his small group of employees stay happy by incorporating their ideas. It's not conducive to a large business with thousands of employees, even hundreds of employees, in multiple locations with a centralized headquarters. It's a fantasy on your part, nothing more.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Italy has a very tiny segment of its total businesses doing this but what you aren't saying is some types of business may make this possible like a small business with an owner operator who's interested in having his small group of employees stay happy by incorporating their ideas. It's not conducive to a large business with thousands of employees, even hundreds of employees, in multiple locations with a centralized headquarters. It's a fantasy on your part, nothing more.
large business is my second point about mondragon
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
And if capitalist Mondragon is making it work great.
mondragon is not capitalist

the workers vote on the executives pay. the top executive earns no more than 12x the lowest paid worker last i heard. compare that to american ceos 350x or whatever.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
mondragon is not capitalist

the workers vote on the executives pay. the top executive earns no more than 12x the lowest paid worker last i heard. compare that to american ceos 350x or whatever.
It's capitalist because it's privately held. Socialism has the government as a controlling partner. Capitalist.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Was slavery socialist? Why would you compare a co-op to slavery?
im saying privatization is not a defining feature of capitalism since slavery was privatized too. slavery was also govt too after all the govt currently legalizes slavery for prison work.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
That’s a red herring response.
you can call it what you like, but theres a big difference between a 1 person business, a 2 person equal co-ownership with no employees, and a 1 owner 1 employee business. i wouldnt call 2 co-owners co decision makers and no employees capitalist - thats socialist as far as im concerned. nothing to do with government.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
im saying privatization is not a defining feature of capitalism since slavery was privatized too. slavery was also govt too after all the govt currently legalizes slavery for prison work.
It's private enterprise Ricky. Not government run. So not socialist. Sorry, you've been supporting capitalism all along.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
It's private enterprise Ricky. Not government run. So not socialist. Sorry, you've been supporting capitalism all along.
see your knowledge of history only goes back 100 years. thats why you think america has always been very strongly pro capitalist.

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vantexan

Well-Known Member
its not capitalism

youve been lied to where you think socialism = govt. its always been about worker control
Nope, socialism is centralized government control of the economy. A private company is a prime example of capitalism. Mondragon is a capitalist company.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Russia wasn't socialist, it was communist. Mondragon is a private capitalist company.
im against any economic system which centralizes power and in favor of democratic economies where workers participate in power. thats the difference between italian coops and working for fedex
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
im against any economic system which centralizes power and in favor of democratic economies where workers participate in power. thats the difference between italian coops and working for fedex
But Mondragon is a private company. So are the Italian co-ops. Face it, they're in it for themselves, not the greater good. Capitalists.
 
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