What is a "cardinal" Offense?

[RealPerson]

Yes Article 28, Sec 2(a) of our Western supplement, and repeated in our Riders.

Right, same with mine. So those Are Cardinal or Serious offenses, BUT

The thing I am asking is will UPS use anything in place of Cardinal, like they did with serious offense.

I sorted air letters, didn't have One missort for 8 Months. Got ONE air letter missort, and was pending term for Other Serious Offense...

I asked what MAR was they said Zero. My BA said you can't have a Zero. So they said OK it is 1 in 5000 that reset every week. Problem is we have only have 3000 letters a week... hahaha so ZERO

 

[ezmoney5150]

We haven't lost anybody, in regards to their employment, as a result of 17i (other serious offenses).
That being said, many of our members have lost many thou$and$ of dollars in lost wages due to a weak panel system and lack of fortitude by charged employees when the company throws their sheite against the wall to see if it sticks, knowing it wont.
Back pay is a myth in regards to 17i.
Return to work, discharge reduced to suspension, time served is the reality.
Cardinal?Serious?, it will make no difference in the world of UPS.
It's a silly, pile on, bogus charge that is interpreted loosely and it wont change until 17i is completely eliminated or specifically defined.
​What idiot let it in the first place?

yeah I love hearing about all this back pay stuff. I've had my BA tell me right to my face well u can take the 1 day suspension and head back to work or fight for back pay which means u could be out for awhile. Let's see I'll take the one day suspension. I've never heard of anyone getting back pay in my neck of the woods.

That's because UPS knows who the knuckle heads are that live paycheck to paycheck and will go bankrupt if they miss a days pay.

I had a feeder driver who got fired because he wouldn't sit in a meeting without the Steward present. Before the discharge letter was written he was on a plane to Florida. If I remember right he wasn't even present for the local level hearing. Three months and a JAC hearing later he had his back pay. Maybe if some of you would save some money you could sit out for an unjust discharge.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

That's because UPS knows who the knuckle heads are that live paycheck to paycheck and will go bankrupt if they miss a days pay.

I had a feeder driver who got fired because he wouldn't sit in a meeting without the Steward present. Before the discharge letter was written he was on a plane to Florida. If I remember right he wasn't even present for the local level hearing. Three months and a JAC hearing later he had his back pay. Maybe if some of you would save some money you could sit out for an unjust discharge.

Hilarious. So they fired a driver without a steward present? In my area (and hopefully everyone's area), that's a slam dunk.

We had a mechanic get fired for egregiously stealing time a while ago. He had 3 or 4 cars and was ****ting a brick after being out of work for less than two weeks. I couldn't believe someone making just over $30/hour with 15+ hours of OT a week was sweating bullets just from being out of work less than a month. What ever happened to the old adage of keeping 6 months worth of savings piled up in case of an emergency?

I'm only PT, but I sock away as much as I can "just in case" I need to tap my war chest some day and can't/won't back down from something. anonymous taught me how important that is.

 

[twoweeled]

I doubt anything in this new proposal is for our benefit. It really looks like UPS wrote in alone. I do know the "dishonesty" cardinal sin is the largest umbrella of them all. UPS will manage in one way or another, to fit most offenses under dishonesty. The original intention of this, was to keep us working when accused, except under the most serious offenses i.e. the cardinal sins. Now what the company does to circumvent that, is categorize virtually everything under "dishonesty"! How many people do you see getting fired under dishonesty? that's why!
In my opinion, the change is the language regarding electronic discipline i.e IVIS; from must have a supervisor observe, to "or other corroborating evidence". That is going to be the biggest screwing of all. I can't believe everyone is letting this one slide by. I wish someone looking out for our good was present when this proposal was written.

 

[twoweeled]

That's because UPS knows who the knuckle heads are that live paycheck to paycheck and will go bankrupt if they miss a days pay.

I had a feeder driver who got fired because he wouldn't sit in a meeting without the Steward present. Before the discharge letter was written he was on a plane to Florida. If I remember right he wasn't even present for the local level hearing. Three months and a JAC hearing later he had his back pay. Maybe if some of you would save some money you could sit out for an unjust discharge.

No, I disagree. As someone who has been fired more than once, you quickly realize everyone has big brass ones and are more than willing to roll the dice, WITH SOMEONE ELSE'S job. It has little to do with living check to check in most cases. Your not betting on the "can I hold out for that long". You betting on will the arbitrator see it my way? Will management be truthful? How much more will UPS throw into the original discharge once you decide your going to fight it all the way? Even if everyone is honest and on the straight and narrow, will the arbitrator see it the same as me? This has now become the practice of UPS. Discharge, keep them off for 2-3 months, and offer the job without back pay, or throw the dice on losing your job. Even the union doesn't want to fight it. Too much hassle and expense. Your somewhat alone when this time comes. Just ask someone who has wanted to fight it all the way. Back pay is more a dream now, than reality.
Face it people, we are losing this war badly!

 

[bigblu 2 you]

what is a " cardinal"offense?.........a fancy word for serious or any other.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

what is a " cardinal"offense?.........a fancy word for serious or any other.

They try to make everything a .............cardinal offense.................................................................if they want to fire your ass!

 

[ezmoney5150]

No, I disagree. As someone who has been fired more than once, you quickly realize everyone has big brass ones and are more than willing to roll the dice, WITH SOMEONE ELSE'S job. It has little to do with living check to check in most cases. Your not betting on the "can I hold out for that long". You betting on will the arbitrator see it my way? Will management be truthful? How much more will UPS throw into the original discharge once you decide your going to fight it all the way? Even if everyone is honest and on the straight and narrow, will the arbitrator see it the same as me? This has now become the practice of UPS. Discharge, keep them off for 2-3 months, and offer the job without back pay, or throw the dice on losing your job. Even the union doesn't want to fight it. Too much hassle and expense. Your somewhat alone when this time comes. Just ask someone who has wanted to fight it all the way. Back pay is more a dream now, than reality.
Face it people, we are losing this war badly!

​We don't have arbitration in the Central Region. That's why we have 17i. If you're in the wrong you should take your job back without pay. There is no such thing as gamble with someone else's job. Its always up to the grievant.

 

[anonymous6]

nothing about firearms.....good. I told a supe years ago I use to take my gun with me on Saturday feeder run to Oakland and all he said was "I would too."

 

[BigUnionGuy]

​We don't have arbitration in the Central Region. That's why we have 17i.

It's rather ironic.... that TDU is jumping all over the bandwagon on this.

"Some 50,000 UPS Teamsters are covered by the Central Region Supplement, which essentially had a change of one word since the first big rejection three months ago. In the hated Article 17(i), which allows management to fire Teamsters for all "other serious offenses," the proposal changes the word "serious" to "cardinal." Three months to bargain this?" - See more at: Language Available in UPS Supplements | Teamsters for a Democratic Union


17(i).... was never in the Central Region language.... Until Ron Carey was elected General President. Way to go TDU.



​-Bug-

 

[104Feeder]

It's rather ironic.... that TDU is jumping all over the bandwagon on this.

"Some 50,000 UPS Teamsters are covered by the Central Region Supplement, which essentially had a change of one word since the first big rejection three months ago. In the hated Article 17(i), which allows management to fire Teamsters for all "other serious offenses," the proposal changes the word "serious" to "cardinal." Three months to bargain this?" - See more at: Language Available in UPS Supplements | Teamsters for a Democratic Union


17(i).... was never in the Central Region language.... Until Ron Carey was elected General President. Way to go TDU.



​-Bug-

Classic.

 

[Brownslave688]

That's because UPS knows who the knuckle heads are that live paycheck to paycheck and will go bankrupt if they miss a days pay. I had a feeder driver who got fired because he wouldn't sit in a meeting without the Steward present. Before the discharge letter was written he was on a plane to Florida. If I remember right he wasn't even present for the local level hearing. Three months and a JAC hearing later he had his back pay. Maybe if some of you would save some money you could sit out for an unjust discharge.

Taking a one day suspension over waiting months to essentially get one days back pay has nothing to do with saving money. Its just common sense.

 

[Anonymous 10]

It's rather ironic.... that TDU is jumping all over the bandwagon on this.

"Some 50,000 UPS Teamsters are covered by the Central Region Supplement, which essentially had a change of one word since the first big rejection three months ago. In the hated Article 17(i), which allows management to fire Teamsters for all "other serious offenses," the proposal changes the word "serious" to "cardinal." Three months to bargain this?" - See more at: Language Available in UPS Supplements | Teamsters for a Democratic Union


17(i).... was never in the Central Region language.... Until Ron Carey was elected General President. Way to go TDU.



​-Bug-

You are the . I hope you know this.

 

[stink219]

RealPerson.....I believe there are seven cardinal sins if I remember correctly from my days in a parochial school:

Looks like most of us will be gone sooner or later...as I did not make it past Cardinal Sin 3.1...


[*]

[*]3.1 Lust
[*]3.2 Gluttony
[*]3.3 Greed
[*]3.4 Sloth
[*]3.5 Wrath
[*]3.6 Envy
[*]3.7 Pride

Those are deadly sins from Dante's Inferno. Great book.

 

[QKRSTKR]

UPS has a way of making words up. Ever hear of "industrial Sabatoge ?" I have out of center manager mouth. I still don't know what it is. So can UPS come up with more "cardinal offenses"? As Obama would say, "yes we can".

 

[stink219]

Right, same with mine. So those Are Cardinal or Serious offenses, BUT

The thing I am asking is will UPS use anything in place of Cardinal, like they did with serious offense.

I sorted air letters, didn't have One missort for 8 Months. Got ONE air letter missort, and was pending term for Other Serious Offense...

I asked what MAR was they said Zero. My BA said you can't have a Zero. So they said OK it is 1 in 5000 that reset every week. Problem is we have only have 3000 letters a week... hahaha so ZERO

Your assuming that UPS only need to interpret "other serious offenses". The union also must agree. If deadlocked........yadda yadda yadda